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Thread: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

  1. #1

    Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Hi,

    I am new to Vaishnavism. I am very much interested in its way and teachings - that of Vaishnavism apart from ISKCON.
    I have a specific question:
    can advaita philosophy AND Vaisnava exist side by side /merged practiced by the same person? Or is it against the Vaishnava scriptures

    What do Vaishnavas think about the advaita philosophy?

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Hi Elizabeth
    Good question. It depends on the final goal. For Sri Ramanuja the goal is not jivanmukta, liberation whilst living as it is for Advaita but kaivalya. For Sri Ramanuja the outcome is supreme bhakti or prapatti. This however is not as clear for the Advaitin because once the Advaitin realises that the world is a superimposition there is no desirable goal as such in bhakti, as bhakti is for attainment of moksha.

    For Sri Ramanuja the purpose after Kaivalya continues to be service of Lord Krishna as one realises that one is a Sesa (or a depended liege of the Lord). So one continues to perform bhakti just as before this realisation.

    Both Sri Ramanuja and Sri Adi Shankara are non-dual: The whole manifest comes from Brahman as the Upanishads assert, however for Ramanuja the world is not a superimposition due to Maya and so the physical dependence on the Lord's grace still remains after realisation.

    We can approach this from another angle if required

    In my personal opinion it is possible to worship Krishna/Vishnu whilst trying to understand Advaita. To my knowledge there is no reason to not embrace both, but that too depends on our aptitude to be able to be clear when we practice Bhakti or other yogas.

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Hi,

    I am new to Vaishnavism. I am very much interested in its way and teachings - that of Vaishnavism apart from ISKCON.
    I have a specific question:
    can advaita philosophy AND Vaisnava exist side by side /merged practiced by the same person? Or is it against the Vaishnava scriptures

    What do Vaishnavas think about the advaita philosophy?
    The brief and correct answer is "Yes" unless you decide to join some hardcore Vaishnava organisation as "ISKCON". In fact, it is quite normal to start with duality i.e. worshipping a particular deity for an Advaitin. Please note that Advaita has no conflicting with worshipping any form of God. A common Hindu by birth, unattached to any sect, can be Vaishnava/Shaiva/Shakta as well as an Advaitin. On the other hand, all Advaitins have their own chosen form of God too that they worship till they come to Self-realisation.

    Scriptures for all Hindus are same. The Vedas enjoy the highest authority among all scriptures and among all Hindus.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #4

    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Hi,

    Thank You so much for your answers and patient as well! You helped me a lot.

    In fact I had also understood these teachings the same way as you described them. Just as 'devotee' referred to it - some organizations such as ISKCON do refiuse the possibilities of "merging" these above mentioned views. (Mainly that's the reason why I excluded that organzation in my question...). Of course, I respect their beliefs though I can't completely identify myself with them.
    What's more I have embraced the advaita philosophy and "prefer" Vaishnava way/approach when "choosing" a form of God...I just wish to know if this all is not a "man-made" stuff.

    I am interested in more opinions / eexperiences in this subject, so they are welcome.

    Elizabeth
    OM

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Hi Elizabeth
    I am glad the replies were helpful, I found Devotee's reply to be clear and useful too

    I am curious what you mean by the "Vaishnava way/approach when "choosing" a form of God"? Has someone explained a process to choose a God or do you mean there is more choice?

    Advaita is embraced by Smarta (Smartism), who are able to choose from the Shanmata. So I don't see less flexibility with Advaita Vedanta, pehaps more as each God is a form of Brahman. This is not so with Gaudiya Vaishanvism (ISKON) as explined by Devotee, Rather Krishna is the Godhead and source and Brahman the impersonal power of Krishna, imho.

    My impression is that you may still worship which ever God you wish and follow Advaita. Were you under a different impression?

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snip View Post
    Hi Elizabeth
    For Sri Ramanuja the goal is not jivanmukta, liberation whilst living as it is for Advaita but kaivalya.
    hi snip . i think there has been a wrong understanding here . jivanmukta(someone who is already liberated despite continuing in his material body) is not the goal of advaita . jivanmukta is an extremely rare state of existence which comes to some rarest of rare individuals . it is not something that an advaitin looks forward to .

    then what does an advaitin look forward to ? ans -- freedom from miseries of world and rebirth and realization of the supreme in its non-dual state . this is described in one word as moksha .

    jivanmukta is a rare phenomenon . it is not a goal .

    For Sri Ramanuja the outcome is supreme bhakti or prapatti. This however is not as clear for the Advaitin because once the Advaitin realises that the world is a superimposition there is no desirable goal........

    there are different stages of realization as per advaitist vewipoint . the highest is called nirvikalpa samadhi . when this happens the person realizes the absolute and unity and ceases to exist materially . his gross body withers away within a period of 21 days , after attainment of nirvikalpa samdhi , which in eyes of others might appear as 'death' .

    however , in extremely rare cases some persons have come back after nirvikalpa samadhi and all of them were understood to be divine expansions of god -- avatar in other words( remember here that avatar can also be a partiall one)

    ....once the Advaitin realises that the world is a superimposition there is no desirable goal.....
    once an advaitin truly 'realizes' that the world is a superimposition he has already attained perfection ! no further goal can exist at this point . for desires are cause of rebirth !!! and untill he reaches that stage , he has not actualy realized that the world is a superimposition . he has merely read it in books and has based his sadhan on what he has read .


    as such in bhakti, as bhakti is for attainment of moksha.
    in its purest form bhakti is unconditional . not even for moksha . bhakti alone generates bhakti . and we feel the surge of bhakti because it is our very nature , our instinct , our swadharma as a jiva !
    na kAshthe vidyate devo na shilAyam kadAchana
    bhAve hi vidyate devas-tasmAd-bhAvam samAcharet

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    the philosophy of vaishnavism and advaita might be hard to combine . but loving krishna and believing in advaita at the same time can definitely be acheived !

    " the philosophy of shankaracharya and the path of chaitanya" ----- is the rule that you can use to shape your spiritual life . believe in the doctrine of advaita and then resort to bhakti yoga as your path . place tulsi on your lords feet and feel his presence all over the creation .

    sri ramakrishna paramahamsa said -- " as long as you are entrapped within maya its not wise to say ' i am brahman '. the waves(jiva) belong to water(god) , not the other way round . as long as you are withint maya its better to pursue dasya(servitor) bhava . if the master loves his servant , he calls the servant asking him to sit close to him and says ' me and you are the same ' . but if the servant forcefully sits beside the master , can it bring about any good ? "

    if advaita realizations comes at the end let it be . but follow the path of bhakti .
    na kAshthe vidyate devo na shilAyam kadAchana
    bhAve hi vidyate devas-tasmAd-bhAvam samAcharet

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Quote Originally Posted by sambya View Post
    hi snip . i think there has been a wrong understanding here . jivanmukta(someone who is already liberated despite continuing in his material body) is not the goal of advaita . jivanmukta is an extremely rare state of existence which comes to some rarest of rare individuals . it is not something that an advaitin looks forward to .

    then what does an advaitin look forward to ? ans -- freedom from miseries of world and rebirth and realization of the supreme in its non-dual state . this is described in one word as moksha .

    jivanmukta is a rare phenomenon . it is not a goal .!
    Hi Sambya
    I enjoyed reading your expansion on this interesting topic, thanks!

    Just to be clear on the point above, before we risk a digress from the OP; Ramanuja disagrees that Jivanmukta is possible as this can occur only when the physical body, consisting of the elements, falls. To my understanding, the state of Jivanmukta is not accepted by him which means that bhakti continues (as we agree). For our friend Elizabeth I feel this is a point she may encounter whilst mixing the two philosophies and so the topic I raise.

    You are right, until the superimposition is seen then the seeker is still seeking.

    What might be interesting for us is if one accepts Sri Ramana Maharshi’s comments on Advaita and Jivanmukta as the purpose to life:

    “Thus in this Crown-gem of Discrimination has Sri Sankara described samadhi or spiritual trance which is the limitless Bliss of Liberation, beyond doubt and duality, and at the same time has indicated the means for its attainment. To attain this state of freedom from duality is the real purpose of life, and only he who has done so is a Jivanmukta, liberated while yet alive.

    Thus defining a Jivanmukta, Sri Sankara declares him to be free from the bonds of three-fold karma (sanchita, ăgami and prărabdha). The disciple attains this state and then relates his personal experience. He who is liberated is indeed free to act as he pleases, and when he leaves the body, he abides in Liberation and never returns to this birth,which is death.”

    Link to open PDF

  9. #9

    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Hi All,

    I am thankful for each answer here as I could find important messages / clarification related to my question. This is very helpful. Thank You all.


    Snip,

    but loving krishna and believing in advaita at the same time can definitely be acheived ! by Sambya


    This is what I mean by Vaishnava way/approach when "choosing" a form of God, but at the same time knowing that Krishna/Vishnu is only one of the forms of God and not the only one. So I do respect each other form of it as well - as they are all different aspects of ONE.

    Elizabeth

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    Re: Can Vaishnavism AND advaita philosophy merged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post

    Snip,

    This is what I mean by Vaishnava way/approach when "choosing" a form of God, but at the same time knowing that Krishna/Vishnu is only one of the forms of God and not the only one. So I do respect each other form of it as well - as they are all different aspects of ONE.

    Elizabeth
    Then may the Gods bless your path!

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