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Thread: Pancakshara Mantra

  1. #121
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste,
    Thanks for the reminder. Indeed. Posts restored.
    satay

  2. #122
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Umm, is not the "universe" here half a cosmic cycle and then gone or withdrawn the other half (and then starts all over)? ..per the "lifetime of Lord Brahma" in Hinduism's cosmology?

  3. #123
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by handy guy View Post
    Umm, is not the "universe" here half a cosmic cycle and then gone or withdrawn the other half (and then starts all over)? ..per the "lifetime of Lord Brahma" in Hinduism's cosmology?
    More or less. It is eternal from the perspective of the jiva or consciousness as it still survives even in the 'withdrawn’ state.
    satay

  4. #124
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Hello Indialover,

    Where are you finding teachings that the universe (which is form) is eternal in Hinduism? The cosmology I've come across for the universe in general Hinduism is spoken of as the cosmic cycles or the lifetimes of Lord Brahma. (a very long time but not eternal and thus ends and starts over again)

  5. #125
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Hello Satay,
    If you are saying supreme or pure consciousness as being eternal then agreed, (a.k.a. Shiva per the Saivite faith, the Self per the Upanishads and other revealed scripture, or Supreme consciousness per many schools) if you are saying the manifest universe or form as was alluded to earlier then disagreed for it is only eternal in the sense that it constantly changes.

  6. #126
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste handy guy

    Only Vishnu and the universe are eternal. Every new creation has a new Brahma, a new Indra, a new Manu ...

    I agree with what Satay said.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  7. #127
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Hello Indialover,

    Are you saying the school of Hinduism that you follow and its writings state that form as in the universe is eternal?..And if so could you quote scripture that supports that. Also if you are of a Vishnu sect then it seems you would also know that the Saivite sects interpretations of what is eternal are different, yet the lower header of your posts proclaims Shiva as a Savite would and not Vishnu?

  8. #128
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste handy guy

    I cannot provide what you await.

    Dance with Shiva, Live with Shiva, Merge with Shiva is a trilogy of Himalayan Academy where I did the one year lasting master course they offer. Since it was my entry to the mystery of Shiva, I chose it when I joined this forum - as a rememberance to my first steps into the vast knowledge of what is called Hinduism, sixteen years ago.

    After finishing this master course I read ‚Loving Ganesha‘, this way He came into my life. One day Krishna appeared … I could not decide whom I love more thus I love all three likewise. Since there is only one ‚highest force‘, only one ‚mystery‘ it does not matter how to name It. This is the freedom of Hinduism.

    I do not belong to or follow any sect. I just follow my intuition and the Vaishnava’s cosmology convinced me. That the universe is eternal is only my understanding, my belief. For me the force they call Vishnu is eternal and the withdrawn state of creation is not different to the visible creation, which is only His expansion, some say His dream. (Since English is not my mother tounge please apologize if I do not use the most eloquent terms.)

    Fact is, no human knows how creation took place, no human knows anything about the mystery of the universe, anything about the mystery at all. Since centuries philosophers, mystics, scientists think about it, without finding an answer.

    Even the Veda could not find it out, Vedanta ended the search with ‚neti neti‘ – not this, not this.

    Rig Veda X.129, for me the most splendid creation hymn, ends with ‚He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens, He perhaps knows it or He knows it not.‘

    In Brihadaranyaka Upanishad a dialogue between Yajnavalkya and Gargi ends with '‚Oh Gargi, do not ask too much, lest thy head should fall off.‘ Gargi became silent.'

    Reading this dialog I became silent too, understanding Yajnavalkya‘s words as ‚We should not ask more than our limited mind is able to grasp.‘

    Both mentioned extracts made me humble in front of the mystery.

    What is the use of knowing about an eternal or not eternal universe? What is the use of thinking about its age considering the lifetime of a human?

    In 2012, WMAP estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, with an uncertainty of 59 million years.
    In 2013, Planck measured the age of the universe at 13.82 billion years. Both of these fall within the lower limit of 11 billion years independently derived from the globular clusters, and both have smaller uncertainties than that number.
    Source https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html

    Hymn of Creation – Nasadiya Sukta
    At that time there was neither existence nor non-existence,
    neither the worlds nor the sky.
    There was nothing that was beyond.
    There was no death, nor immortality.
    There was no knowledge of the day and night.
    That one alone breathed, without air, by itself.
    Besides that there was nothing.
    Darkness there was enveloped by darkness.
    All this was one water, without any distinction.
    It was inactive, covered by void.
    That one became active by the power of its own thought.
    There came upon it at first desire,
    which was the first seed of the mind.
    Men of vision found in their meditative state,
    the connection between the Being and the Non-Being.
    All gods were subsequent to this creative activity.
    Then who knows from where this came into existence!
    Where this creation came from ,
    whether He supported it or not,
    He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens,
    He perhaps knows it or He knows it not! (Rig Veda X.129)

    Source https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicse...vedichymns.asp

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  9. #129
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Namaste handy guy

    I cannot provide what you await.

    Dance with Shiva, Live with Shiva, Merge with Shiva is a trilogy of Himalayan Academy where I did the one year lasting master course they offer. Since it was my entry to the mystery of Shiva, I chose it when I joined this forum - as a rememberance to my first steps into the vast knowledge of what is called Hinduism, sixteen years ago.

    After finishing this master course I read ‚Loving Ganesha‘, this way He came into my life. One day Krishna appeared … I could not decide whom I love more thus I love all three likewise. Since there is only one ‚highest force‘, only one ‚mystery‘ it does not matter how to name It. This is the freedom of Hinduism.

    I do not belong to or follow any sect. I just follow my intuition and the Vaishnava’s cosmology convinced me. That the universe is eternal is only my understanding, my belief. For me the force they call Vishnu is eternal and the withdrawn state of creation is not different to the visible creation, which is only His expansion, some say His dream. (Since English is not my mother tounge please apologize if I do not use the most eloquent terms.)

    Fact is, no human knows how creation took place, no human knows anything about the mystery of the universe, anything about the mystery at all. Since centuries philosophers, mystics, scientists think about it, without finding an answer.

    Even the Veda could not find it out, Vedanta ended the search with ‚neti neti‘ – not this, not this.

    Rig Veda X.129, for me the most splendid creation hymn, ends with ‚He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens, He perhaps knows it or He knows it not.‘

    In Brihadaranyaka Upanishad a dialogue between Yajnavalkya and Gargi ends with '‚Oh Gargi, do not ask too much, lest thy head should fall off.‘ Gargi became silent.'

    Reading this dialog I became silent too, understanding Yajnavalkya‘s words as ‚We should not ask more than our limited mind is able to grasp.‘

    Both mentioned extracts made me humble in front of the mystery.

    What is the use of knowing about an eternal or not eternal universe? What is the use of thinking about its age considering the lifetime of a human?

    In 2012, WMAP estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, with an uncertainty of 59 million years.
    In 2013, Planck measured the age of the universe at 13.82 billion years. Both of these fall within the lower limit of 11 billion years independently derived from the globular clusters, and both have smaller uncertainties than that number.
    Source https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html

    Hymn of Creation – Nasadiya Sukta
    At that time there was neither existence nor non-existence,
    neither the worlds nor the sky.
    There was nothing that was beyond.
    There was no death, nor immortality.
    There was no knowledge of the day and night.
    That one alone breathed, without air, by itself.
    Besides that there was nothing.
    Darkness there was enveloped by darkness.
    All this was one water, without any distinction.
    It was inactive, covered by void.
    That one became active by the power of its own thought.
    There came upon it at first desire,
    which was the first seed of the mind.
    Men of vision found in their meditative state,
    the connection between the Being and the Non-Being.
    All gods were subsequent to this creative activity.
    Then who knows from where this came into existence!
    Where this creation came from ,
    whether He supported it or not,
    He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens,
    He perhaps knows it or He knows it not! (Rig Veda X.129)

    Source https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicse...vedichymns.asp

    Pranam
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello India lover,

    Thank you for your time and personal reply and descriptions of where you are coming from.
    neti, neti is only one of many ways of going at it, and does not mean that revealed scripture is not pointing to what Self realized Sages and Great gurus found, so to speak; a point is constantly brought up throughout the Upanishads and in other revealed Hindu scriptures. I'm not going to nick pick with you, but I'm going to suggest that when making a definitive point about Hinduism and or one of its sects that you have scripture that you are quoting from directly that relates to that point, and if not then like you said mention that it is only of your interpretation.
    Om Brother

  10. #130
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste
    this insistence on quoting from scripture is so foreign to Hinduism and hindus in general but I do understand the need of it for some.
    satay

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