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Thread: Pancakshara Mantra

  1. #101
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    I am not sure, however, that IMkAra (or any variation) actually appears in the Rgveda; and I don’t recall any reference to IM as the praNava.
    Namaste Sarabhanga,

    Shrisukta has a line "tAm IshvarIm IM sharaNam prapadye" (citing from memory). And one Rigvedic passage mentions "chatvAra IM" which according to Srividya adepts refers to four kAmakalA-bIjas in kAdi-panchadashI.

    Re designation of "IM" as pranava i know from oral tradition which goes from Sri Bhaskararaya (my SV Guru belongs to this line).

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    Post Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Namaste Arjuna,

    The line from shrI sUkta is:

    candrAM prabhAsAM yashasA jvalantIM shriyaM loke devajuSTAmudArAm |
    tAM padminImIM sharaNamahaM prapadye'lakshmIrme nashyatAM tvAM vRNe || 5 ||


    tAm padminIm Im sharaNam aham prapadye

    Im is a particle of affirmation and restriction; and Im (= idAnIm) also has the sense of now or at this moment.

    I never doubted that Im appears in the Rgveda, but the term IMkAra does not occur.

    And IM (the amRta bIja) is another name for shrI lakshmI, so I understand that IM is a veritable praNava for shrI vidyA; but the vaidika ekAkshara praNava is always oM (or auM).

  3. #103
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    And IM (the amRta bIja) is another name for shrI lakshmI, so I understand that IM is a veritable praNava for shrI vidyA; but the vaidika ekAkshara praNava is always oM (or auM).
    Namaste Sarabhanga!
    Thank U for providing exact verse.

    BTW do U know what is the earliest historically reference to pranava, to OM and to OM *as* pranava?

  4. #104
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    Cool Re: Omkara origins

    Namaste Arjuna,

    The oMkAra (as we know it) was not used in the ancient Rgveda, but its linguistic precursor is commonly found.

    av means “to drive, impel, animate, promote, favor, satisfy, or refresh”, and particularly “to offer (as a hymn to the gods)”.

    Said of the Gods, av means “to be pleased with or accept favorably (as sacrifices, prayers, or hymns)”.

    The imperative ava calls for the favorable acceptance of an offering ~ “Be pleased!”.

    And the present participle ave declares “I am offering or impelling”

    अवें → ॐ
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 20 October 2007 at 09:00 AM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Omkara origins

    [QUOTE=sarabhanga;17390]अवें → ॐ[QUOTE]

    Namaste Sarabhanga,

    I don't think we can judge by form of letters since devanagari script was developed about 10 century C. E. only. That means at least 2000-3000 years after Vedic samhitas were written down.

    Still the question is open: where is OM designated as pranava for the first time? In Upanishads?
    And does Veda mention pranava anywhere?

  6. #106
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    Post Re: Omkara origins

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna

    I don't think we can judge by form of letters since devanagari script was developed about 10 century C. E. only. That means at least 2000-3000 years after Vedic samhitas were written down.
    The root of auM is surely av[M]. The sound is the same, the meaning is the same, and the evolution of the script is not difficult to imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna

    Still the question is open: where is OM designated as pranava for the first time? In Upanishads? And does Veda mention pranava anywhere?
    As previously noted:

    praNu (infinitive praNavitum, first person present praNaumi or praNau, and first person imperative praNavai) means to sound loudly or to praise greatly, to resonate or reverberate, or to roar, bellow, or thunder. And it first appears in the Rigveda.

    In the Brahmanas and Upanishads, praNu especially refers to the syllable oM.

    And, in the Yajurveda, the Brahmanas, and the Upanishads, the term praNava (or praNavaka) implies the ekAkshara praNava, which is always oM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Omkara origins

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Said of the Gods, av means “to be pleased with or accept favorably (as sacrifices, prayers, or hymns)”.

    The imperative ava calls for the favorable acceptance of an offering ~ “Be pleased!”.
    Namaste sarabhanga,
    can you take us a bit further... as we know then that svaha [for offerigs at yajya ] then must be rooted in ava. Can you advise on your ideas on this...as one way brings to oM and the other most natural way brings one to svAhA.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #108
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    Namaste Sarabhanga!
    Thank U for providing exact verse.

    BTW do U know what is the earliest historically reference to pranava, to OM and to OM *as* pranava?
    Namaste Arjuna,
    just a side note and more of a 'nice to know'.
    When we look to the major Upanishads there are two [that I am aware of] that begin the UPanishad with Om as being part of the sutra itself vs. the introductory saluation.

    One is from Chandogya and the other is from Mundaka:

    chandogya upanishad
    om iti etad aksaram udgitham |

    manduka upanishad
    om brahma devanam prargamah sambabhuva
    visvasya karta bhuvanasya gopta |

    have you seen another that has pranava as part of the sutra's content that starts the mantra?

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #109
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    Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Namaste Arjuna,
    just a side note and more of a 'nice to know'.
    When we look to the major Upanishads there are two [that I am aware of] that begin the UPanishad with Om as being part of the sutra itself vs. the introductory saluation.
    Mandukya has OM in it's beginning, but i'm not sure it is included into 11 "classical" Upanishads, though for sure it was written before Shankara (VIII century C. E.).

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    Post Re: Pancakshara Mantra

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post

    Mandukya has OM in it's beginning, but i'm not sure it is included into 11 "classical" Upanishads.
    Namaste Arjuna,

    I cannot recall ANY list of major Upanishads that does not include the Mandukya. What makes you think that it might not be "classical" ?

    And regarding ave in ancient script, the similarity with OM is also apparent in Brahmi. And of course, the OM in our forum logo (and icon) is taken directly from a photo of OM Parvat, where the sign has existed for a VERY long time !

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