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Thread: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

  1. #11
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    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    What is the need to merge ? I see them as different interpretations and understanding towards the same knowledge.

    It gives space for different people to suit themselves in.

    The space between dvaita to advaita gives the flexibility of fitting oneself in and this is needed as all of us are uniquely placed in terms of our capability to comprehend and absorb.

    This gives the Sanatana Dharma the flexibility of accomodating all mental levels.

    That all of us are unique is natural and the truth we need to accomodate. That all of us are unique is so beatiful and brings in the creativity, innovation and the power of thinking.
    That all of us are unique makes this world so dynamic, absorbing and make the enhances the space for learning.

    Love and best wishes

  2. #12

    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    What is the need to merge ? I see them as different interpretations and understanding towards the same knowledge.

    It gives space for different people to suit themselves in.

    The space between dvaita to advaita gives the flexibility of fitting oneself in and this is needed as all of us are uniquely placed in terms of our capability to comprehend and absorb.

    This gives the Sanatana Dharma the flexibility of accomodating all mental levels.

    That all of us are unique is natural and the truth we need to accomodate. That all of us are unique is so beatiful and brings in the creativity, innovation and the power of thinking.
    That all of us are unique makes this world so dynamic, absorbing and make the enhances the space for learning.

    Love and best wishes
    yes and that flexibility to accomodate all mental levels should include Advaitins who have Vaishnava, Shaiva or Shakta leanings, meaning they have Bhakti towards a certain ishta devata, while at the same time keeping with the conclusions of Advaita Vedanta. This is there already in Shankara's teachings, followers of Advaita with Bhakti is very common .. as I pointed out earlier Sridhar Svamin is a perfect example of this temperment.

    namaskar

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    Smile Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    To start with everyone starts as Dvaita proponent with Bhakthi towards a superior Being, then he realises that he is only a part of the great Whole Being to whom he is praying as a Visishtadvaitin and when Karma,Bhakthi and Gnana fructify, he becomes one with Godhead and realises Moksha or selfrealisation as advaitin.One leads to the ultimate status.Om Tat Sat!

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    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    NO offense.... This is age old joke and still considered Humorous..



    Quote Originally Posted by kahanam View Post
    To start with everyone starts as Dvaita proponent with Bhakthi towards a superior Being, then he realises that he is only a part of the great Whole Being to whom he is praying as a Visishtadvaitin and when Karma,Bhakthi and Gnana fructify, he becomes one with Godhead and realises Moksha or selfrealisation as advaitin.One leads to the ultimate status.Om Tat Sat!

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    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    In the lowest stage bhakti and jnana are separate. In the highest stage bhakti and jnana are one.

    Can vaishnava and advaita be merged is a silly question. It's like asking can the colour yellow and apple be merged. Yes, you can have yellow apples, green apples, red apples etc. Vaishnava doesn't equal dvaita philosophy.


    ~Captain Obvious

  6. #16

    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"? Is there such a school within vaishnavism that accepts/involves the advaita views? Or are they (Vaishnava and advaita views) two completely, separated views/ ways / teachings?
    Before the muslim destruction, the kashmir valley was the hot beg of religious evolutions and breakthroughs. Along with the more publisized buddhism and shaivism, vaishnavism was also very popular in kashmir and was strictly a monist philosophy. This I was reading in the introduction to manthanabhairavatantra. I don't know any kashmiri monist vaishnava text or tradition ever survived - you may want to research a bit. However one must be clear that strict monism of tantras is not same as shankara advaita vedanta.

    The agamic vaishnavism which forms the backbone of the practice of most of the orthodox vaishnavas generally preaches dvaita-advaita in line with shaiva agamas from which they are influenced. All the agamas following dvaita-advaita and tantras following para-advaita were developed in kashmir ... though both shaiva and vaishnava agamas now survive as living traditions only in the south.

    It is not surprizing that agamas which dealt with practicalities of religious practice would preach dvaita-advaita, where the god is both transient and imminent in creation. Jiva is forever connected to the God, but doesn't become identical with God after moksha (i.e we don't become God after moksha, which would be a very difficult concept to base one's worship on for a devotee). Instead we become essentially his nature - yet not him. "Sameness" instead of "Oneness" as somebody put it.

    However hindu societies who practiced agamas also found it necessary to prove their vedic-ness and developed all these darshanas based on vedanta. Brahmins could not think of living outside vedic dictum.

    But agamic religion including vaishnava do not need to cling to any of the vedantic theories ... agamas are themselves too rich in philosophical depth and understanding, and discusses matters of consciousness in much more depth & clarity than the vague poetic estacy of vedanta.

    Yet the brahmans of this land could not bear to be called avaidik - so they took up both. For me all of vedic, vedantic and agamic religions are precious as testiments of spiritual evolution and also a history of faith in this land. Also vedic and agamic religions are complimentary to a large extent with different focus. But I follow a evolutionary view of religion, for those who can't bear the thought of vedas being anything else than the one and only source of all religion, and one and only proof of god (which it is clearly not), need to subverse others to one. In the process we have cooked up many theories which are far less original and profound and which now stand as neither vedic nor vedantic or agamic...but something we would want each of these to be.

    The medieval darshana movement (advaita, vishistadvaita,dvaita,shuddhadvaita,achinta-bheda-abheda, blah blah mumbo jumbo), the bhakti movements are all examples of such efforts.

    I have discarded them and decieded to understand religion as a human invension and God as an aspect of humanity, and study the human discoveries made about consciousness in vedas, vedanta and tantra ... without the need to cook up one true religion. But I am ok to be called a stupid fool and a radical.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Jiva is forever connected to the God, but doesn't become identical with God after moksha (i.e we don't become God after moksha, which would be a very difficult concept to base one's worship on for a devotee). Instead we become essentially his nature - yet not him. "Sameness" instead of "Oneness" as somebody put it.
    namaste,
    but how do you know?
    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    However hindu societies who practiced agamas also found it necessary to prove their vedic-ness and developed all these darshanas based on vedanta. Brahmins could not think of living outside vedic dictum.
    Is this your own conclusion?
    Sarva DharmAAn Parityajya

  8. #18

    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    Quote Originally Posted by amith vikram View Post
    namaste,
    but how do you know?
    It is not me but the philosophy of dvaitAdvaita.

    Quote Originally Posted by amith vikram View Post
    Is this your own conclusion?
    If it gives you some comfort, many others have come to the same conclusion, mainly in the academic. If you read the agamas and tantras, it is very clear (unless one has a seriously impaired brain or is dogmatically blind) that they have a very distinct & unique theology and practices which have little if nothing to do with the srauta and the smarta religions.

    It does not mean that they are independent, developed independently completely uninfluenced by each other. That would be absurd. But the tenants and practices are unique enough to make these separate religions within the hindu cultural complex.

    Unlike the buddha, sikhs and to an extent jains who have opted out to be out of the hindu cultural complex...others have stayed in the same religio-cultural complex.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  9. #19

    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    re:Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    Definitely Yes. Both are the products of the same Vedanta and interpreted by same Guru Maharshi Ved Vyasa. Dvaita and Advaita are two sides of the same coin. They are never contradictory and always supplement each other. It needs for more understanding than just to understand them separately.

    Snake seen in a rope in dim light is never contradictory to the rope. So is the case with this. Thus Dvaita world which includes Modern science also is part of Advaita. I call this 'ultimate principle'. Check it.

    http://www.idealworldkrishna.blogspo...-universe.html

  10. #20
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    Re: Can Advaita philosophy and Vaishnava views be "merged"?

    I was looking for a thread/questions/answers like this. I've been wrestling with the compatibility of Vaishnavism and Advaita. It may be my lack of understanding that is causing the conflict, so here goes (forgive the length of my ramblings, which by now should come as no surprise )...

    I am a self-proclaimed Vaishnava, and I see the "person" of Krishna/Vishnu/Narayana as a manifestation, to our senses, of Brahman. That's why I can accept that Shaivas see Lord Shiva the same way, Shaktas see Devi, etc... you say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe sort of thing. For me, I cannot help but believe that B.G. 10.42 "But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." screams Advaita.

    From my readings it seems most Vaishnavas lean towards VishishtAdvaita or Achintya BhedAbheda (Gaudiyas, of course). I have a problem with the concept of a Vaikunthaloka or Goloka with fields and grass and flowers, singing and dancing and having a jolly good time, as I think is a common Vaishnava belief. I don't mean to make fun but unless I have misread or misunderstood (quite likely ), it smacks of the Abrahamic Heaven or Greek Elysian Fields beliefs, which I utterly reject.

    I have always felt in my gut, even before adopting Hinduism (I was deist post-Christianity and pre-Hindu), that we are all one with God and the universe, and that we return to that unmanifest oneness upon moksha and merge into it. As water evaporates and separates from the ocean, becomes clouds (we, in material existence separated from God), then rains back down and merges into the ocean where it belongs, the water in the rain clouds is no different than the water in the ocean from whence it came. Or is that VishishtAdvaita, quality but not quantity? In that case VishishtAdvaita doesn't necessarily present a problem for me, though my gut tells me to believe Advaita. Unless the difference is only subtle.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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