Dear anadi,
Thanks for your replies. It is always good to engage in scriptural discussions with devotees, but only if the purpose is to increase one anothers consciousness.
I have read your previous posts on this subject (at least the main thread posted on the forum that your profile linked to). I think you are basing too much on externals. Bhakti is based on consciousness; after all the main goal is to become conscious of our eternal position in relationship with Kṛṣṇa and partake in intimate pastimes with Him. The purpose of all the aṅgas of bhakti (and everything we do in the vaidhi-bhakti stage) is explained in Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:
In the Padma Purāṇa it is said:=
“
One should always remember Viṣṇu and never forget Him. All injunctions and prohibitions are based upon these two principles.” [Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.8]
I wasn't around during Bhaktisiddhanta's time so I can't say whether or not he received formal initiation (most of the arguments are based on different reports from different devotees). Formal initiation isn't as important as action though, and we can see that Bhaktisiddhanta certainly preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness vigorously and allowed it to become accessible to a larger audience (including the extremely fallen Westerners like myself, who would not have known about Gaudiya Vaisnavism without Him.).
His actions show he was initiated by following instructions; what does a formal ceremony mean? Many people get formally initiated but do not take the important instructions to heart (to spread Kṛṣṇa Consciousness).
For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me. There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear. [Bhagavad-gītā 1
8.68-69]
Of course, now we see the essence has been lost in these big organizations and there is every reason to be skeptical of them. They think vaidhī-bhakti is the all in all (which of course it is not). They also base things on externals, due to a lack of understanding of consciousness.
A Western-style religious organization was necessary for the time though, to infiltrate the West, because the entire world was under the control of corporate governments and religions. A corporate entity was needed for Gaudiya Vaisnavism to simply be recognized and to survive in such a hostile environment. Some things may have been changed for the purpose of encouraging others to take to GV, but the essence is there in scriptures for one who is sincere enough to study (and practice) deeply.
None of the changes are proof that Bhaktisiddhanta was not a Gaudiya Vaisnava. Most of these are merely external things and can easily be argued, but again, it just comes to wasting time as it is my logic against your logic—my understanding of scripture against your understanding—with no real benefit in our personal bhakti. If one is more hung up on small details than remembering Viṣṇu then what hope is there. You need to find what increases your devotion for Kṛṣṇa, and grab on to it with both hands.
I agree debate based on bhakti-śāstra can be very beneficial. Even if we reject all other scriptures, all other commentaries and all other lines and ācāryas coming from Lord Caitanya (such as rejecting Bhaktisiddhanta) we can't deny that Rupa Gosvami has given the ultimate conclusion in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu and so this is the śāstra we can firmly agree on the conclusions.
Someone may still use dry logic using bhakti-śāstra, arguing for the taste of superiority or being right in an argument: an ego trip. This is still dry logic even while using bhakti-śāstra. A taste in bhakti means one is actually performing bhakti as defined in 1.1.11 and getting bhāva from it.
“
The highest bhakti is defined as continuous service or emotions directed towards Kṛṣṇa, His expansion forms or others related to Him, with a pleasing attitude towards Kṛṣṇa. It should be devoid of desires other than the desire to please the Lord, and unobstructed by impersonal jńāna, the materialistic rituals of karma or other unfavorable acts.” [Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11] Argumentation and logic are important but only in the view of trying to bring others to a higher consciousness. Only you and Supersoul can see the reasons we argue because again this is based on consciousness. It seems that arguing over small details rather than trying to elevate others consciousness is dry logic, not bhakti.
Devotion was certainly sparked in many people thanks to the spreading of GV on a widescale in the religious organizations of both Prabhupadas, which would not have been there without them.
It is then up to the individual to study bhakti-śāstra and practice it to attain the ultimate goal. Distortions came unfortunately due to lack of knowledge and certainly the need for Religious organizations is over. Now it is important to get back to small intimate ashrams so we can cultivate uttama-bhakti and share nice loving exchanges between devotees:
Offering gifts in charity, accepting charitable gifts, revealing one’s mind in confidence, inquiring confidentially, accepting prasāda and offering prasāda are the six symptoms of love shared by one devotee and another. [
Upadeśāmṛta 4] Love and respect,
Mukuteśvara dāsa
Bookmarks