Mantra- what's real what isn't?

[Arjuna]

But considering ThouArt's post...what exactly a non-indian hindu to do? Should he/she not recite any mantra during meditation unless it is received directly by a guru that is connected to the source?
I agree with what sarabhanga and arjuna are saying but what about those who have no access to a guru that is connected to the source? Should they not meditate at all?

Namaste,

I do not understand what is the need of mantra for meditation. One may meditate and pray to Shiva, Devi or Hari without using any mantras. What's the problem? I guess the issue is with curiosity and not spirituality. Mantras seem to be exotic and having some magical power. And it is indeed better to pray and meditate than to chant mantras with such kind of intention.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste,

I do not understand what is the need of mantra for meditation.

Namaste Arjuna,
This notion of mantra for meditation... a specific vibration that resinates with the SELF, with the individual. Of this there is great import. If there is a desire to do japa, or pray, this is fine too.

The goal is to allow the mind to settle down , to transcend as it were, so one experiences pure consciousness.

If one wishes to practice bhakti , and the fullness of devotion to
ones Ishta, one may also be in fullness of Him/Her ( Saguna Brahman).... That said, this mantra is of all different kinds, vibrations, lengths. To aquire one from a dikhsa guru is a blessing.
It is his/her wisdom that is passed on to you. The wisdom of what is right for you for this place and time.

This Mantra and transcending is yajya... more if there is interest.

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

If I recite some mantras that I never received from the elders in the family or from a guru, is it correct that reciting these mantras has no spiritual value?

It is not that mantra without diksha has no value, but rather that the effect is far greater when the mantra is properly transmitted. And the full power of a mantra (especially the various mahamantras) will not be realized without diksha from a guru who received the same diksha from his guru, who had it equally from his own guru in a continuous parampara of living vibration right back to the original source of the revelation.

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

[Arjuna]

This notion of mantra for meditation... a specific vibration that resinates with the SELF, with the individual. Of this there is great import. If there is a desire to do japa, or pray, this is fine too.

What is the intention behind a desire to do japa without having got a mantra? An experiment?
Mantra is the Word which is transmitted from Divine realm into mundane through a succession of Gurus (subdivided into 3 oghas). Outside this context "mantra" is a mere word like "Coca-cola" or "Adobe Illustrator." The heart of mantra, the VIDYA, is transmitted only directly, it is not contained in written letters which one sees in a book or website.

Nobody prohibits anyone to repeat any word, including words of mantras. But without a Diksha these are words only, outer shell lacking the indwelling Presence.

Meditation can be done without any mantras. If one wants an object, the whole world is there! If one wants a repeating process, breathing is fine.

Prayer is not equal to mantra-japa. And prayer requires no initiation, no upadeshas and no tradition. As one speaks to his/her beloved, he/she can speak to God.

The goal is to allow the mind to settle down, to transcend as it were, so one experiences pure consciousness.

In order to transcend one has to be the witness of the mind. Settling mind down won't help. Active mind is dominated by rajas, passive � by tamas. But Atman is untouched by both.

If one wishes to practice bhakti , and the fullness of devotion to ones Ishta, one may also be in fullness of Him/Her ( Saguna Brahman).... That said, this mantra is of all different kinds, vibrations, lengths. To aquire one from a dikhsa guru is a blessing.
It is his/her wisdom that is passed on to you. The wisdom of what is right for you for this place and time.

One cannot "practice" bhakti. It is like saying "making love" which implies just a physical act.
Bhakti just happens or doesn't happen. That's it.
It is impossible to practice loving a woman or man, and it is even less possible to practice loving God!

[satay]

It is not that mantra without diksha has no value, but rather that the effect is far greater when the mantra is properly transmitted. And the full power of a mantra (especially the various mahamantras) will not be realized without diksha from a guru who received the same diksha from his guru, who had it equally from his own guru in a continuous parampara of living vibration right back to the original source of the revelation.

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

namaste,
Thank you. I understand now.

[sarabhanga]

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

There are methods for instilling prolonged (virtually eternal) life into manu-script (i.e. hand-written or wisely inscribed) mantra, which thereby becomes an effective yantra for repeated subsequent evocations of the original deity or logos.

And there is benefit in reading even printed translations of divine scriptures and wise commentaries; but when the goal is so lofty as immortal eternal existence without suffering mortal incarnation, then the aim (along with the archer and the arrow) must be perfect in every dimension.

[ThouArt]

Namaste:

Mmmm, yes. Thank you all for your replies. As you all can understand, what I refer to as "westernized Hinduism" is rife with ready-made mantra, malas of every sort and for every reason; chakra this and chakra that...again which is something I prefer to avoid.
However, as a "new" Hindu, it is difficult to feel like I am growing in my knowledge of my religion when in reality I truly am; I am studying and learning and my faith is strong. It feels good to me to practice japa, use mantra for concentration, connection to God. I wait for diksha!
My direction in my faith is my own as I have no guru, but understand that comes with time.

Thank you again

ThouArt

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

In order to transcend one has to be the witness of the mind. Settling mind down won't help. Active mind is dominated by rajas, passive — by tamas. But Atman is untouched by both.

Namaste Arjuna, your post has stimulated several thoughts.
Here are few things I consider and practice:

Meditation is vehicle to allow the SELF to realize the SELF by itSELF. This can be done in many ways. Mantra (sound) is one way as there are many other techniques.

Transcending is a natural process of allowing the mind to go to 'more and more' - and the Absolute is more then the most.
Settling down the mind is the RESULT of meditation, not the act of meditation. Doesn't matter if the mind is active... the mantra is that sound that allows the mind to go inward and cultures the nervous system (the village of the senses) to function in a very unique way. This prepares one for Turiya consciousness.
Once the march is inward, then the mind-body settles down to experience finer levels of consciousness. Witnessing is not a pre-requisite.
This is beyond controlling the mind... (I am not suggesting this is what you have inferred). For many a sadhu, the notion of control and restraint has thought to be the way to the Divine. Through proper meditation, the mind becomes concentrated or one pointed, vs. trying to whip the mind into forcing it to stay focused. This is the wisdom of the tradition of masters who pass along the simplicity of this teaching.

The key is 'withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal' - that is rest and activity. All of creation functions in this fashion. Some think just withdraw, and that is it. Sri Krsna is quite clear in his direction 'yogastah kuru karmani' (BG 2.48)- established in yoga or union of the Divine, perform action.... and 'be without the 3 guna's ... possessed of the SELF' (BG 2.43)

Regarding Mantra shastra - receiving a mantra from a guru is ideal and brings with it authority and shakti. I concur that when ever possible this is best. Yet, Japa and Meditation are two different techniques, especially if one is using mala beads along with japa.

Last , comments on bhatki - once established in the SELF, (Atman) then one is past the small small events of the world and of the ego... then full attention can be given to HIM or HER.
If one is caught up with what he is not, and not established in the SELF, then the devotion, albeit well intentioned, is less then effective and waxes and wanes with the changes of time.

pranams,

[orlando]

Namaste all.
One must consider that every hindu traditions have different ideas about the same thing:for example mantra-japa.Some hindu traditions are more indulgent than other traditions.
I think that the pravana mantra Om is ok for all the hindus and even "ardha-hindu"(half-hindu).


Please read what Sivaya Subramuniyaswamy says in his book Living with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Culture.
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...lws_ch-09.html

Thursday
LESSON 60
Japa: Recitation
Now we shall focus on japa, recitation of holy mantras, the ninth niyama. Here again, a guru is essential, unless only the simplest of mantras are recited. The simplest of mantras is Aum, pronounced "AA, OO, MMM." The AA balances the physical forces when pronounced separately from the OO and the MMM, as the OO balances the astral and mental bodies. The MMM brings the spiritual body into the foreground. And when pronounced all together, AA-OO-MMM, all three bodies are harmonized. Aum is a safe mantra which may be performed without a guru's guidance by anyone of any religious background living on this planet, as it is the primal sound of the universe itself. All sounds blended together make the sound "Aum." The overtone of the sounds of an entire city would be "Aum." In short, it harmonizes, purifies and uplifts the devotee.

One might ask why a guru is important to perform such a simple task as japa. It is the shakti of the guru, of the Gods and the devas that give power to the mantra. Two people, a civilian and a policeman, could say to a third person, "Stop in the name of the law." The third person would only obey one of them. The one who had no authority would not be listened to. In this example, the policeman had been initiated and had full authority. Therefore, his mantra, "Stop in the name of the law," seven words, had the desired effect. The person who had not been initiated said the same words, but nobody paid any attention to him. Now, this does not mean one can choose a guru, study with the guru, become accepted by the guru, feign humility, do all the right things and say all the right words, become initiated, receive the mantra and then be off into some kind of other activities or opt for a more liberal path. The guru's disdain would diminish if not cancel the benefits of the initiation, which obviously had been deceptively achieved. This is why siddhanta shravana (choosing your path carefully) and mati (choosing your guru carefully, being loyal to the sampradaya, to your guru and his successor or successors and training your children to be loyal to the sampradaya) are the foundation of character that the first fifteen restraints and practices are supposed to produce.

Mantra initiation is guru diksha. Traditionally, the family guru would give mantra diksha to the mother and the father and then to the young people, making the guru part of the family itself. There is no way that mantras can be sold and be effective. There is no way that the diksha of mantra initiation, which permits japa, could be effective for someone who was not striving to fulfill the first seventeen of the yamas and niyamas. Any wise guru would test the devotee on these before granting initiation. There is no way a mantra can be learned from a book and be effective. Therefore, approach the guru cautiously and with a full heart. When asked if you are restraining yourself according to the ten yamas, know that perfection is not expected, but effort is. And if you are practicing the first seven niyamas, know that perfection is not expected here either, but regular attentiveness to them is. You, the guru, your family and your friends will all know when you are on the threshold of mantra diksha, which when performed by an established guru is called guru diksha.

Now please read what he says in his book Merging with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Metaphysics:

Oftentimes japa and chanting are the ardha-Hindu or non-Hindu's first introduction to Sanatana Dharma. An ardha-Hindu is often one who has been given a Hindu first name. It is our experience over the last fifty years that their japa has little effect unless they make the full commitment to becoming stalwart members of the Hindu religion and join a mature community. Those who are inside a department store handling and purchasing the merchandise and those outside looking through the window at the same merchandise are two different groups. Ardha means half, and ardha-Hindus are those who have come half way to making a full commitment and are still making up their mind. They are still on the outside looking in. Their japa doesn't have much power until they bring other aspects of their life into line with the Hindu Dharma.

For the non-Hindu who has not made a commitment, the universal mantra Aum is the most significant and precious of all mantras. This can be chanted by those of all religions, without restriction. The sounds of a city make "Aum." A child at birth says "Aum." A mother giving birth says "Aum." The last breath of a dying person is "Aum." Even the cows say "Aum." Aum is the mantra of Lord Ganesha. All are striving for His holy feet. Those who are struggling with the lower nature, those who have not made a commitment to the Sanatana Dharma, a commitment which for the newcomers to the fold could be verified by their Hindu name on their passport, should all chant Aum.

I suggest you all to read the whole chapter The Yoga of Incantation at http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...mws_ch-23.html

Regards,
Orlando.

[orlando]

Namaste all.
I will quote other things from the book Merging with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Metaphysics by Sivaya Subramuniyaswamy.
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso..._canto-09.html

THE SEVENTIETH APHORISM

To aid in the depolarization and transmutation of creative forces, certain mantras are chanted. These logically concentrate the conscious mind, harmonize its subconscious and magnetize the brain. This draws the creative forces from the instinctive to the intellectual and superconscious regions.

Mantras, or incantations, are a study in themselves, however it is possible to explain the use of one of these mantras that will do the most in the depolarization and transmutation process. This mantra harmonizes the physical body with the mental and spiritual forces. Sound A (pronounced AH), and center the sound in the solar plexus region of the body. Next intone U (pronounced OO), and center this sound through the throat area. After that, intone M (pronounced MMM), sending this vibration through the cranium by placing the front teeth tightly together. First chant them separately, then blend the sounds together, forming AUM. This mantra is the essence of sound itself. All sounds blended together intone AUM. Listen to the sum total of all the noises of a big city, and you will hear the AUM, as in a seashell or the ocean waves. This is only the manifestation of creation from the creative power. As you intone these sounds, you are releasing your creative energy into your creative centers in the brain. Then they are allowed to pour forth, back through your mental, emotional and physical body, to create a new world for you.

THE SEVENTY-FIRST APHORISM

The letters A-U-M, when correctly chanted, transmute the instinctive to the intellectual, and the instinctive-intellectual to the superconscious. Direct cognition will then be attained.

Aum is the universal mantra which can be performed safely by the initiated and the uninitiated alike, under any condition, in any circumstance, whether the body is clean or dirty. It will heighten consciousness by harmonizing the physical with the mental and spiritual when chanted correctly. The Aum mantra will lead you to the guru, and when cognition has been attained, upliftment of consciousness to the fourth chakra, Saiva diksha, or initiation into deeper mantras, would be the next unfoldment on the path to enlightenment.

THE SEVENTY-SECOND APHORISM

The A-U-M harmonizes the physical body with the mind, and the mind with the intuitive nature.

Here again we can see the great benefits of the mantra Aum. It in itself is the ultimate psychiatrist. It in itself is the sound of the universe, the sound of a city in action, the sound at birth, the sound at death. Listen to the sounds anyplace, anywhere blended together and you will hear the Aum. While listening, mentally say the sound Aum and feel body, mind and the Godness within you blending as one.

THE SEVENTY-THIRD APHORISM

The Aum placed before or after a word adds power and concentrated forces to the word.

When you are encouraging someone and are saying those encouraging, uplifting words, think "Aum." The vibration that you will create by doing this within yourself goes to him, adds power to your words and uplifts him as it is uplifting you.

THE SEVENTY-FOURTH APHORISM

The Aum projected through thought after or before a spoken word adds concentrated force to the spoken word.

You can project "Aum" mentally to a loved one in a far-off place. Each of the intonations has a color. Those colors blended together make one complete thought form which travels faster than the speed of life.

Regards,
Orlando.