Are my views against the Vedas?

[HumaneVitae]

I am very new, so I have no idea if my views are completely against what the Vedas teachs.
I think that the Brahman is more like the Dao, if you know what that is.
Its kind of the same, except I don't think its god, rather just a creative force.
I view the gods as not so much faces of the brahman, more like creations that are powerful. So I am just a hard-core polythiest.
I have been mulling this over in my head for a good while now and its been causing a bit of a faith crisis.

[BryonMorrigan]

I am very new, so I have no idea if my views are completely against what the Vedas teachs.
I think that the Brahman is more like the Dao, if you know what that is.
Its kind of the same, except I don't think its god, rather just a creative force.
I view the gods as not so much faces of the brahman, more like creations that are powerful. So I am just a hard-core polythiest.
I have been mulling this over in my head for a good while now and its been causing a bit of a faith crisis.

I don't know about "Dao," but I think this Sita Ram Goel quote addresses your second point:

"...I had an occasion to read the typescript of a book [Ram Swarup] had finished writing in 1973. It was a profound study of Monotheism, the central dogma of both Islam and Christianity, as well as a powerful presentation of what the monotheists denounce as Hindu Polytheism. I had never read anything like it. It was a revelation to me that Monotheism was not a religious concept but an imperialist idea. I must confess that I myself had been inclined towards Monotheism till this time. I had never thought that a multiplicity of Gods was the natural and spontaneous expression of an evolved consciousness." (1)

______________________________________________________________

(1) Sita Ram Goel. (1982). How I became a Hindu. New Delhi, India: Voice of India, 92.

[Darji]

Well HV,

I might need a better dictionary as I always thought that "just a creative force" is God. I digress.

I think it's not so much as your views oppose the Vedas, but more the idea that you are approaching Brahman from a Daoist point of view. Not to be mean, but you can't understand the Hindu concept unless looked at from a Hindu POV. I suggest starting with reading the BHAGAVAD-GITA, specifically Chapter 13.

Try this Translation to begin, it's in simple straight forward English and non-sectarian (well as non sectarian as any text could be). http://www.gita-society.com/silverbook28.htm

I'm a relative noob so I am sure some of our more experienced members could point you towards some other relative text to help you out.

Some do not understand Brahman at all. But having heard of God from others, they perform deity worship with faith and devotion. They also go beyond birth and death due to their devotion and firm faith to what they have heard. (13.25)

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté Humanevitae,

I am very new, so I have no idea if my views are completely against what the Vedas teachs.
I think that the Brahman is more like the Dao, if you know what that is.
Its kind of the same, except I don't think its god, rather just a creative force.
I view the gods as not so much faces of the brahman, more like creations that are powerful. So I am just a hard-core polythiest.
I have been mulling this over in my head for a good while now and its been causing a bit of a faith crisis.

I am not an expert nor intimate on Daoism ( some say Taoism ) - yet if you equate this Dao to creative force, I can see how you may view it
as an equivalent to brahman.

Yet the pickle is this - is brahman this? Yes, but not only this - This brahman is the creative force, wholeness, fullness ( bhūma) , Being (sattā), all that exists and does not exist, all that was, will be, would or could be - all that one can imagine and cannot imagine. It is infinite and finite at the same time - movable and unmovable; every-thing and no-thing at the same time.

There is no place IT is not. It is every level of consciousness the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th - and they all rest on the 4th , turīya. So is this turīya brahman? sure , but that is not all, the fullness of brahman is every thing.
This brahman is ekam evādvitiyam¹ - One truly without a second.

Let me , if I may offer this from the chāndogya upaniṣad (chapter 7) and the great student ( Nārada) asks his teacher/guru:
What is this bhūma? What is this Fullness?

"Do you want to know what Completeness is? And do you want to know what finitude is? Here is the definition," says Sanatkumāra [ the ṛṣi of the vidyā] . "Where one sees nothing except one's own Self, where one hears nothing except one's own Self, where one understands nothing except one's own Self, that is Bhuma, the Absolute; and where one sees something outside oneself, where one hears something outside oneself, where one understands or thinks something outside oneself, that is the finite ( or alpa - small , minute , trifling , little)."
… and where can it be found?

"O my dear Nārada, your question itself is unfounded and unwarranted. Why do you ask where It is, as if It is in space? But if you want me to tell you where It is, I say It is in space, It is in every nook and corner, in every pinpoint of space. There is no space where It is not; there is no space which It does not occupy."


You will see ( I think) the answer to your question is not easily answered in prose or for that matter in books, yet books may help¹ - what helps more is direct experience.

We can talk about a banana all day long, its chemical composition, its weight , height, color, where it grows how it grows, all that. All this knowledge finally makes sense with the first bite of the banana and all comes into focus. Knowledge + experience say the wise is the key to the appreciation of brahman...

praṇām

words & references

• ekam evādvitiyam - eka एक(one) eva एव(indeed , truly , really) a अ(not) dvaita द्वैत(two,duality)
• books - 10 upaniṣad-s worth studying... http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4617

[devisarada]

Namaskar Yajvan,

As usual, we can count on your clear and elegant turn of phrase. I agree with you whole heartedly!

Namaskar Humanae Vitae,

I am not nearly as learned as our Yajvan, but I would like to give you my perspective on your dilemma.

As Yajvan says, DIRECT EXPERIENCE is a crucial part of realizing God or Brahman.

I do not know very much about the Dao, but it seems to me to be similar to the Buddhist concept of the creative force, which is basically non-theistic.

As a non-dualist advaitic Hindu, I believe that Brahman, or the Supreme Absolute, is as Yajvan so perfectly described. The Devas and Devis are but manifestations of different attributes of Brahman.


Words are alone are too limiting to reach an understanding of Brahman. But read the articles in this forum, and you will get a better sense of what Hinduism is. There are lots of seeming contradictions under this large umbrella. Western logic that something has to be either one thing or another does not seem to apply. Rather than saying "either or" when talking about apparent opposites, Hinduism often sees "both and" to be true simultaneously.

So yes, the concept of the Dao is similar to Brahman, but that is only one layer.

[Vaishnava]

HumaneVitae, glad to perceive your interest in the truth.

Vedas provide different deities (gods) for different minds. But, in Gita He says:

"Verily the reward (fruit) that accrues to those men of small intelligence is finite. The worshipers of the gods go to them, but My devotees come to Me."

So ruling the other gods is one ultimate God declared as Brahman in the Upanishads. Brahma Sutras is the authorized commentary of the Upanishad and there he says even though we(souls) are Brahman (great) however we have to mediate on that Brahman(greatest)which is known by:

"Janmadyasya yatah". From which creation, sustenance and dissolution takes place. It is also:

Sat + Chit + Ananda, meaning, ever existent without conditioning like the souls, Chit, supremely intelligent without contraction of Karma and Ananda supreme bliss and conferrer of bliss.

It is present everywhere, it is supremely powerful, supremely attractive and supremely wise and not simply consciousness. That is Vedic One God.