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Thread: Isavasya Upanisad

  1. #11

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Hi friends,
    Thank you for taking my agitated words calmly, I appreciate!

    I certainly have no problem if any body sees Vishnu or Shiva or any other form of God in Isa. That is absolutely alright. My emphasis is on accurate translation of any verse.

    Just like the given reference by Orlando; at first verse it says, "this is full" (purnamidam) and in second it goes, "All this should be covered by the Lord" (isaavaasyamidam sarvam); now either first one is incorrect or the second. If "all is full", then who will cover and what is there to be covered?

    Interpretations are fine, but they talks more about the person interpreting rather than the person (Rishi/sage in this case) writing it; and the best way to get closest to the mind of the author is to find find closest translation.

    Thanks again!!!

  2. #12
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    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by Santosh Gairola View Post
    Hi friends,
    Thank you for taking my agitated words calmly, I appreciate!

    ------
    Just like the given reference by Orlando; at first verse it says, "this is full" (purnamidam) and in second it goes, "All this should be covered by the Lord" (isaavaasyamidam sarvam); now either first one is incorrect or the second. If "all is full", then who will cover and what is there to be covered?

    ------
    Thanks again!!!
    Namaste,

    Both are correct. Language is the most confusing thing. It is a lady.

    Brahman is designated as Eko and Sarva -- depending on the perspective. If one sees sarva then that is God. If one sees only the Eko then that is God. Like Shri Krishna says: "All beings in me and me in all beings". That leaves no space for any other thing.

    But, as far as I know, Tyaktena does not mean "granted wealth"! Or may be?



    Om Namah Shivayya

  3. #13

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee View Post
    Both are correct. Language is the most confusing thing. It is a lady.
    My Namaste too,

    My stating 'incorrect' is for 'should', because 'should' leads to 'do'.

    I agree, Eko and Sarva are essentially same, therefore "this IS full" is same to "All this IS covered by the Lord". But if it is said, "All this SHOULD BE covered by the Lord", then there is something left to be covered and someone left to cover.

    And yes, in my understanding too Tyaktena does not mean "granted wealth".

    Again, its my personal view.

    ॐ शांति शांति शांति
    Last edited by Santosh Gairola; 24 December 2006 at 08:20 AM.

  4. #14

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    continuing to next verse of Isa Upanishad, lets explore:
    कुर्वन्नेवेह कर्माणि जिजीविषेच्छतं समाः ।
    एवं त्वयि नान्यथेतोस्ति न कर्म लिप्यते नरे ॥ 2 ॥
    kurvanneveha karmani jijeevishhechchhatam samaah,
    evam tvayi naanyathetosti na karma liptaye nare

    kurvanah (कुर्वनः) - Doing
    eva (एव) - Verily/"used for emphasis"
    iha (इह) - Here/Hither/In the following/Now/In a moment
    karmaani (कर्माणि) - Deeds/Actions
    jijeevishha (जिजीविषा) - Desire (of living)
    ichchhati (इच्छति) - To wish
    samah (समाः) - Similar/Alike
    evam (एवं) - In this way/Thus
    tvayi (त्वयि) - In yourselves
    na (न) - Not
    anyathaa (अन्यथा) - Otherwise
    tau (तौ) - They
    asti (अस्ति) - Is/Are
    karma (कर्म) - Deed/Action
    lipyate (लिप्यते) - Affected
    nare (नरे) - Man (Human ?)

    Meaning goes something like:
    Verily doing now deeds, like the desire of living;
    In this way they are in yourselves no otherwise, deeds do not affect human.
    This is a bit hard verse to get a meaning. In my understanding, "kurvanneveha karmani" is an advice to live in moments, like, perform your deeds now/here; then it gives a comparison, "jijeevishhechchhatam samaah" - just as desire of living (perhaps in life threatening moments); continuing from previous, "evam tvayi naanyathetosti" - In this way that THAT is in yourselves nowhere else; and finally assuring "na karma liptaye nare" - Your deeds do no affect you.

    As I said this verse is little difficult, but this is where my understanding goes. Any other finer explanation is appreciated.

  5. #15
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    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Santosh Gairola View Post
    continuing to next verse of Isa Upanishad, lets explore: "jijeevishhechchhatam samaah".
    Namaste Santosh,
    thank you for continuing with this post...
    When we look to this rshi's that cognized these great works of truth, I tend to keep in mind the ninya vacamsi or some 'secret words' they choose. The kavi (seer, some use this word as poet) reveled in using slesa or double meanings... so the precision of their words has multiple meanings.
    If we look jijivishet - 'should you live' , and satam samah as I have it in the writings of the Isavasya Upanishad I possess, suggests ' a hundred years'. Now, this is a nice salutation to live 100 years, yet these people (drasta) of eternal truth would have more to say I would think? In Kali Yug the max age ( on a good day) is 120 years or vimshottari ( So says rshi Parashara).

    This notion of living to 100 is symbolic of enlightenment. How so? the '0' is the wholeness of the relative field of the manifest creation, the second '0' is the fullness of the unmanifest, Absolute... the '1' is the completeness of oneness of both.
    So , the salutation to live or desire to live to 100 is that profound wisdom to aspire to Enlightenment , to jivanmukti, to Moksha, or Dharma mega (cloud pouring virtue seen the patanjali sutra's).
    This is the wisdom, as I have been taught of those with dristi of Satyam and sruti of the Vedic knowledge of the Divine.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnideva View Post
    Yes I can see and appreciate your point here. To pervade, there is the requirement of the Pervader and the pervaded, i.e. dualism. What would be an advaitic translation of this same passage?

    Regards,
    A.
    IsavAsya cannot be advaitic for so many reasons:

    1. Isa is indeed the all pervading personal God. Why? There is a special prayer for Isa to reveal himself:

    hiranmayena patrena satyasyapihitam mukham |
    tat tvam pusannapavrnu satyadharmaya drstaye (15 )

    It is clearly mentioned that the Lord here is an object of perception, as the prayer to reveal the form suggests. The Nirguna Brahman of Advaita cannot listen to such a prayer nor reveal himself, and that would be negation of the very concept of NB.

    2. The seer of the mantra Manu is mentioned in Bhagavata to say this prayer whenever he was in trouble and praying to Hari. No rishi would pray to God for protection with words such as yo'savasau purusah so'hamasmi as interpreted in the advaitic sense. Just imagine, if chased by thieves you would pray "Oh God, I am you, please save me". That would be ridiculous.

    3. Shankaracharya is unable to even handle the verses in this upanishad that he replaces the word asambUti to sambUti( 14th verse) in his commentary, which is a hopeless situation. The word asambUti there would totally be repugnent to advaita if one were to look up advaita commentary. ( This is pointed out by Dr.S. Radhakrishnan)

    Also Shankara interprets avidya=pitr loka and vidya=deva loka, both mithya and vyavahArika. Who would take such a commentary as an authority? Same with every verse...

    4. Apart from these, almost everything that Advaita says is rejected by this Upanishad, and it is about a very positive outlook on life. ( emphasis on karma yoga and bhakti yoga )

    5. It goes on to say that the world is real:

    sa paryagacchukramakayamavranamasnaviram suddhamapapaviddham |
    kavirmanisi paribhuh svayambhuryathatathyato'rthan vyadadhacchasvatibhyah samabhyah (8 )

    The term yathatathyatatah is the evidence of the world also percieved as it is by God, in opposition to the Brahman of Advaita who is not even self aware.

    Dont have much time to elaborate further.

    Isavasya is a beautiful, monotheistic, highly theistic upanishad.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  7. #17

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee View Post
    Namaskar

    Contemplating a bit, I find it rather difficult to appreciate that for Isha (the absolute) pervading is required, since this EKO is sarvam as well.

    Pervading, I feel, is a perspective of the divided view.

    YMMV (borrowed phrase).
    All this is certainly Isa (the absolute), living in even the smallest thing. Abandon, thus, the worldliness of jagat --- . Do not crave/covet wealth (or anything) as the other (or of the other). (Note: Since there is no true other)
    Hello Atanu,
    I am not able to understand your interpretation for this shruthi..because in your first statement you explained that pervading is not required for Isha(absolute) , but while interpreting the shruthi you said "All this certainly is Isha , living in even the smallest thing" ..what is the need of saying "living in even the smallest" if all this is Isha.?

    Can you please explain me bit clearly..?

  8. #18

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by vedanta_learner View Post
    Hello Atanu,
    I am not able to understand your interpretation for this shruthi..because in your first statement you explained that pervading is not required for Isha(absolute) , but while interpreting the shruthi you said "All this certainly is Isha , living in even the smallest thing" ..what is the need of saying "living in even the smallest" if all this is Isha.?

    Can you please explain me bit clearly..?
    Also some of our friends here explained this mantra in this way :

    Isa+avasya (अवश्यम्) = certainly God is this all

    but in mantra I can see IsAvAsyam (see the vAsyam ,not vasyam) so how can we divide this as Isa+avasyam?

    can some one explain me this?

  9. #19
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    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by vedanta_learner View Post
    Hello Atanu,
    I am not able to understand your interpretation for this shruthi..because in your first statement you explained that pervading is not required for Isha(absolute) , but while interpreting the shruthi you said "All this certainly is Isha , living in even the smallest thing" ..what is the need of saying "living in even the smallest" if all this is Isha.?

    Can you please explain me bit clearly..?

    Namaskar,

    When all this is Isa, in the first place, where is the need to pervade? That can only be the perspective of one who still sees the boundaries to be devoid of Lord. Isha Upanishad stresses "Desire Lord only."

    This is my understanding and opinion only.

    Om Namah Shivayya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #20

    Re: Isavasya Upanisad

    Quote Originally Posted by vedanta_learner View Post
    Also some of our friends here explained this mantra in this way :

    Isa+avasya (अवश्यम्) = certainly God is this all

    but in mantra I can see IsAvAsyam (see the vAsyam ,not vasyam) so how can we divide this as Isa+avasyam?

    can some one explain me this?
    Hi Vedanta Learner,

    I think this part of your post is directed to me.
    Yes sure, it is true that it is vAsyam ,not vasyam. I wrote that is my post too:
    (although this same logic goes against avashyam in first translation)

    My argument was the verse "purnamadah ........ " to support Isa+avasyam; yet I have no problem with any meaning. Thats why I tried to put four different meaning from this verse. I hope you can go through that post again.

    Have a good day!
    Santosh

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