Torch Bearer for Gaudiya Vaisnavas?

[Believer]

With Praphupad having left us long time back, who is leading the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampridaye? Was there a formal succession, or are Prabhupad's books the 'new Guru'?

[Braja Bhushan das]

There's no "correct" answer to this. Everybody is individual, and will look for someone who will suit his/her nature. Stating officially that some person is a successor would only worsen things and strengthen institutional kind of thinking, forcing people to accept "the only way to salvation". Fortunately, spiritual life cannot be limited like that.

As for Prabhupada's books, they are great as introduction into GV, and some may stick to them all their lives but those who feel they need to move further will certainly consult other books, especially those written by traditional acaryas such as Sridhara Svami, Visvanatha Cakravarti and Baladeva Vidyabhushana which guarantee purity of GV teachings.

[Believer]

Since the GV Sampradaya is based on disciplic succession, I was just curious if one or more of his followers will provide the unbroken chain for future generations, or have we reached the end of it. I realize that there are other Acharayas who belong to that Sampradaya too, but as far as ISKCON goes, will the disciplic succession continue in that branch of the GV tree, or were Praphupad's books declared to be the eternal successor?

[ScottMalaysia]

Since the GV Sampradaya is based on disciplic succession, I was just curious if one or more of his followers will provide the unbroken chain for future generations, or have we reached the end of it. I realize that there are other Acharayas who belong to that Sampradaya too, but as far as ISKCON goes, will the disciplic succession continue in that branch of the GV tree, or were Praphupad's books declared to be the eternal successor?

There is not one continuous linear chain, but a many-branched chain consisting of many different disciples and gurus. For example, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur initiated a large number of disciples. Two of them were Bhaktivedanta Swami (Srila Prabhupada) and Bhakti Prajñana Kesava Goswami.

Srila Prabhupada initiated a number of disciples to sannyas, and brought them to the same position that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has brought him to. These disciples, such as Jayapataka Swami and Devamrita Swami, give initiation to other disciples.

Bhakti Prajñana Keshava Goswami initiated Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, who initiated a number of disciples, forming another Gaudiya organisation that has spread throughout the world.

So each of these gurus does not pass the teachings onto one other person, but on to many. Yes, the tradition is unbroken, but it is not one linear chain, going from one person to another person and so on.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: So if the chain is spread amongst say, 2 or 3 or more, what happens to assets of the organisation? Does the membership collectively own the buildings, etc., or is it the members of the temple, the closer associates. I know we're dealing with sannyasins here, but still there has to be some sort of 'ownership' of the temple.

Aum Namasivaya

[ScottMalaysia]

Vannakkam: So if the chain is spread amongst say, 2 or 3 or more, what happens to assets of the organisation? Does the membership collectively own the buildings, etc., or is it the members of the temple, the closer associates. I know we're dealing with sannyasins here, but still there has to be some sort of 'ownership' of the temple.

Aum Namasivaya

A lot of conflicts have broken out in ISKCON over the very issues you mention. Srila Prabhupada didn't appoint one successor but eleven gurus, many of whom actually wanted to be Prabhupada. After he left this world, many of them started fighting about things like money.

But that doesn't mean that the sampradaya is one long, linear chain.

[Believer]

There is not one continuous linear chain, but a many-branched chain consisting of many different disciples and gurus.

Srila Prabhupada initiated a number of disciples to sannyas, and brought them to the same position that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has brought him to.

Thanks. I am fully aware of that.

Perhaps I did not frame my question correctly. All the Acharyas form a pyramid with Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu at the top. Srila Praphupad had several initiated disciples. One out of them will lead ISKCON and the rest will branch out and be free to carry on the GV sampradaya under different names. I was trying to find out if there was an Acharya who inherited ISKCON. From your later post, it seems that, that is still up in the air. Either Srila Praphupad did not find anyone worthy of the task, or He wanted his initiated disciples to decide who they wanted to be led by. In either case, it is TBD; and that is the end of the story.

[Gopal Dasa]

Thanks. I am fully aware of that.

Perhaps I did not frame my question correctly. All the Acharyas form a pyramid with Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu at the top. Srila Praphupad had several initiated disciples. One out of them will lead ISKCON and the rest will branch out and be free to carry on the GV sampradaya under different names. I was trying to find out if there was an Acharya who inherited ISKCON. From your later post, it seems that, that is still up in the air. Either Srila Praphupad did not find anyone worthy of the task, or He wanted his initiated disciples to decide who they wanted to be led by. In either case, it is TBD; and that is the end of the story.

Prabhupada set up the Rtvik system in which there are 11 representatives of Prabhupada and His books are the Guru now. For it says in the Caitanya-Caritamrita that the Spiritual Instructor and His words are one. Prabhupada also said that the movement may fail, the devotees may fail, but His books will never fail. These representatives are there to initiate new deciples into ISKCON and the new Initiates will then be deciples of Prabhupada, threw His books. But the GBC (Governing Body Commision), has skewed Prabhupadas plan and have made just about anyone have the possiblity of being a Diksa Guru and are allowing others to have deciples, unlike Prabhupada wanted. Also, there is some system in which people can VOTE for someone to be a Guru and that could be based purely on the fame or the riches of the person, not their Devotion.

[Believer]

Thanks for the information Gopal Dasa.

But the GBC (Governing Body Commision), has skewed Prabhupadas plan and have made just about anyone have the possiblity of being a Diksa Guru and are allowing others to have deciples, unlike Prabhupada wanted. Also, there is some system in which people can VOTE for someone to be a Guru and that could be based purely on the fame or the riches of the person, not their Devotion.

This is exactly what bothers me. Lot of Diksha Gurus have been created who are "collecting" disciples by giving them Diksha without the new initiates performing the required Tapa. This is diluting and weakening the Sampradaye. This point was brought out in an article in a recent issue of the Back to Godhead magzine. I hope somebody in the GBC is reflecting on that.

[Gopal Dasa]

Thanks for the information Gopal Dasa.



This is exactly what bothers me. Lot of Diksha Gurus have been created who are "collecting" disciples by giving them Diksha without the new initiates performing the required Tapa. This is diluting and weakening the Sampradaye. This point was brought out in an article in a recent issue of the Back to Godhead magzine. I hope somebody in the GBC is reflecting on that.

I hope someone is too. But I dont know if any are. Ever sense they started changing Prabhupadas books, I really began to lose faith in ISKCON. The changes where minor, but they changed the WHOLE MEANING of a verse.

The whole problem with the Diksa Gurus is that, like you said, they are "collecting" new deciples without the new initiates performing the Tapas. The only reason why I think they are doing this is because they arnt in it for Krsna Consciousness, but just to get their own followers. Yesterday I was thinking about western priests, like Christian priests or Jewish Rabbis. They are not greatly glamorized or look at as god-like figures. But, look in the east at the Gurus. They wears a garland of flowers, they have Tilaks, they have people who bow down to them. Im guessing that when westerners saw how Prabhupada was being treated, that they wanted to be treated the same. So when Prabhupada died, the egoists took over and started playing the role of Prabhupada. Obviously I dont know if this is true, but it seems like something that could happen.