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Thread: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

  1. #11
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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    You know, I'm not really certain about what Hinduism says regarding these types of marriages. I know that in India a lot of family tension arises over any deviation from the norm, but I don't know how much of this is actually based on Hindu teaching, and how much is just the culture. Attitudes about intercaste and interracial marriage may just be the result of cultural prejudices. But there's perhaps a good reason behind the opposition to interfaith marriage. As others have said, if both spouses are nonpracticing this probably won't be a problem. But even here, in a way the spouses are of the same faith, since they are effectively atheists. The fact of the matter is that different religions usually aren't compatible, and one will have to take a back seat. If you raise your children in two religions, they end up with a faith that is neither here nor there, and this does justice to neither religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    You could always say that you won't raise the children in any religion and let them choose for themselves, but I don't think that is very practical. What will the spouses do when the child is very young and not yet able to choose their own religion? Will the child have a Hindu name or a Christian name? Will the child be baptized or go through the Hindu sacraments such as niskramana, annaprashana, and chudakarma? Also, as somebody in the thread said, depending on where you live, it can be a difficult thing just to not raise your children Christian.
    Heh, this is quite true. As I or other Hindus raised in the West could say, it's difficult not being Christian in America. Imagine if one spouse is Hindu and the other is Christian. The Hindu doesn't stand a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia View Post
    There would be less problems with a Hindu having their kids raised Christian than vice versa. Hinduism is tolerant and accepting of all religions, while Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. A Hindu would have far less problem with their child going to church to sing hymns and hear about Jesus than a Christian would have with their children going to a Hindu temple and praying to images, which is strictly forbidden in Christianity. However, as EM said, if you have a liberal Christian (who believes there is more than one way to heaven) and a liberal Hindu then it could work.
    Most Hindus may not have a problem with this; personally I would. There's no way I'd let any child of mine attend church regularly. Personally I feel that Christianity erodes family values, and I wouldn't want a small child to be exposed to it. But to each his own, and I can respect anyone else's choices.

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia View Post
    There would be less problems with a Hindu having their kids raised Christian than vice versa. Hinduism is tolerant and accepting of all religions, while Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. A Hindu would have far less problem with their child going to church to sing hymns and hear about Jesus than a Christian would have with their children going to a Hindu temple and praying to images, which is strictly forbidden in Christianity. However, as EM said, if you have a liberal Christian (who believes there is more than one way to heaven) and a liberal Hindu then it could work.
    Whatever you say about xians is even more applicable to muslims too.

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    I'm reviving this thread because I thought it was very interesting...I have no experience with intercaste or interracial marriages (I'm Western, and know no inter-racial couples well), but interfaith, I certainly do.

    Whether interfaith marriages can work is, I believe, related to various religions' (and practitioners') ideas of what marriage is for. Most religions do consider marriage a sacrament, and a primary duty of both partners to be the strengthening and assisting of each other's faith. I think that interfaith marriage works best if the partners are able to fulfill those responsibilities towards each other. I don't have to be Jewish, for example, to have a basic understanding of the Jewish faith and support someone else in his/her efforts to live by it.

    A person considering an interfaith marriage should also keep in mind that a partner's faith may change in intensity throughout the years - so that one may marry an "Easter-and-Christmas" Christian who doesn't seem to care much about church or the Bible, but should consider that the person may become very devout later on, and understand what this may mean to the relationship. This also means that one's own faith may increase over the years, and one should do some serious soul-searching to be certain that having a partner to share with is not of vital importance. There is a certain intense loneliness that comes in practicing one's faith alone within a marriage. :/

    I cannot fathom how children would complicate matters. If I've decided my faith, presumably I believe it's the 'right' one, and I can't quite wrap my head around the idea of believing something myself, but having my children raised as something else; I can't imagine any compromise that might satisfy both partners, either. (This is why it's good that I'm childless, among many other reasons!)

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    Om Namaḥ Śivāya.

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    I'm reviving this thread because I thought it was very interesting...I have no experience with intercaste or interracial marriages (I'm Western, and know no inter-racial couples well), but interfaith, I certainly do.
    I am a Westerner and my wife is Indian. We haven't had any problems because of race, either in Malaysia or here in New Zealand.

    Whether interfaith marriages can work is, I believe, related to various religions' (and practitioners') ideas of what marriage is for. Most religions do consider marriage a sacrament, and a primary duty of both partners to be the strengthening and assisting of each other's faith. I think that interfaith marriage works best if the partners are able to fulfill those responsibilities towards each other.
    I also think that interfaith marriages work better between those religions which state that there are many ways to God and that no religion has an exclusive claim on God or truth. A Hindu/Buddhist couple shouldn't have many problems as both religions are tolerant. However, when one of the religions says that it is the only way and condemns practices of the other religion, then you have a problem. Christianity teaches that it is the only way and also that worshipping idols is wrong. Therefore, a Christian may very well believe that Hindus are following a false religion by using images of Hindu Gods in worship. A marriage between this sort of person and a Hindu would probably not work out.

    Furthermore, certain religions such as Islam, Judaism and Orthodox Christianity do not allow marriages outside their respective religions (although Islam allows a Muslim man to marry a Jewish or Christian woman). A marriage between a Hindu and a Muslim, a Jew or an Orthodox Christian would be seen as invalid by their partner's religion.

    I don't have to be Jewish, for example, to have a basic understanding of the Jewish faith and support someone else in his/her efforts to live by it.
    Yes but if you had a Jewish spouse, then your marriage would be forbidden according to Judaism and they would be required to divorce you unless you converted to Judaism. But if you're talking about just a friend, then yes, it makes sense.

    With regard to children, some couples decide that they won't bring their children up in any religion and let them decide when they're old enough. However, that is still forcing a set of beliefs on them (not to have any beliefs).

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Namaste,

    This topic has given me many interesting insights. I have always known that marriage was an important part of Hindu life, naturally, it being a sacrament in most other religions. It makes perfect sense that most Hindu parents would want their children to marry somebody within their own faith, and I would say that largely, it should be that way. I'm not sure why I feel like that, but it makes things a lot less complicated. This only really applies to religious-minded people. I wouldn't regard agnostic or less religiously minded people like this, but as someone has already very sagely pointed out, people change - they don't have the same beliefs for the whole of their life. A person's spiritual journey can begin at any time, and it could be that a person who has married an individual from a different faith finds himself with a spouse who is suddenly very religiously fervent. What happens then?

    I cannot speak out much about the pros and cons of intercaste marriage, for reasons of ignorance, but I definitely can talk about interracial marriages, being the child of one of them. While faith is something that could pose a potential problem for people from two different religious backgrounds wanting to marry, I cannot see how race is even remotely important. I'm biased in saying this, sure, but this seems like a very primitive way of thinking. I assume this was brought up as a topic to add to the discussion of intercaste and interfaith marriage, but in itself, I hope the majority of the Hindu community don't believe in such outmoded tribal thinking. My own parents married 23 years ago, when probably ~99% of the population over here was Caucasian. Even though the ethnic minorities were increasing in number as my sisters were growing up, we experienced a lot of staring, sometimes the nice kind, other times not so nice. Now, hardly anybody notices we're half-white and nobody would stop to question the morality of a white man dating a black woman or vice versa (unless, of course, they're racist). It's one of the few things that I feel the western world finally got right.

    Therefore, a Christian may very well believe that Hindus are following a false religion by using images of Hindu Gods in worship.
    I would agree mostly with this, Scott, but not all of this statement. My father is a very pious man, coming from a traditional Catholic home that used to be covered in images of the Virgin Mary, the Sacred Heart (which even die-hard Protestant idol haters use to decorate their homes), etc. It's a funny thing to say that Christians don't believe in using idols for worship, because it is not at all true - in which case, they're either very seriously in denial about what constitutes an idol or else just complete hypocrites. Even the cross that symbolises Christianity is an idol when people kneel before it in Mass. But to get back on topic, my dad is slightly less orthodox than most Christians - a lot of what he talks about sounds eerily like Hindu theology about returning back to God (Brahman) after we die. It was surprising to learn over the years that such a religious man like my father could ever have felt inclined to marry anyone other than a devout Catholic, but he and my mother are still together and very happy. She, herself, comes from a traditional Taoist Chinese background but claims she has no religion, and yet she is certainly not atheist. Whenever we'd make trips back to her parents in Hong Kong, it was tradition for us to us say prayers in front of the family shrine in respect for our ancestors (grandparents, great-grandparents). Actual worship plays an important part in this, and there is a sort of puja ceremony, involving offering incense, food and many kowtows to the honoured dead. And to think my dad did (and still would do) all this in respect for my mother's family and her beliefs. I remember with some amusement how, back then, I was quite a good little Catholic myself. At hearing we had to bow low before my grandfather's shrine, I looked to my dad and wondered if it was all right, if I was angering God somehow by doing what the Bible forbade. Not that I was ever really a God-fearing child, but it was more confusion at how we were taught one thing in church and another thing by my dad. Looking back now, I have much to thank him for.

    I'm a strange product altogether, coming from a Christian-Taoist-agnostic home and yet somehow finding myself after all these years on a Hindu discussion forum telling everyone how I've managed to turn out all right, despite the odds that seemed stacked against me. In which case, I will venture to say that interfaith marriages could very well work. After all, children grow up. Their beliefs change, and if they have their own mind, they shouldn't be any the worse for it. In a way, it seems to fitting to have to struggle to find your path and discover your own beliefs - to be born so simply into it, seems like relying a little too much on your parents and not enough on karma.

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Vannakkam Sunyata et al:

    Very interesting insights. Thanks for sharing so much about yourself, not that it really matters.

    I agree that race should have nothing to do with it. I know several (5 from the top of my head) white Hindus who have successful marriages with Hindus from India, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, etc. But this only applies if race is not a factor within the individual person's head. I've often held the thought that its not who you marry so much as when you marry, but this is just an analogy to the individual being mature enough to handle the responsibilities that come along.

    Divorces I have seen were due to incompatibility, lust (adultery), and religion. I think lust tops the list though. Never once have I seen it due to race. And these days its not just the guys who do the wandering. I think some sort of frank discussion about sex drives before marriage may have helped in these cases, but who knows. A couple off times it was someone marrying their job, so the job became the mistress.

    We see more and more of interracial marriages which is a great thing.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Yes, sorry I did wander a bit off topic there! Got caught up in my thoughts.

    I agree with you on the lust being the worst factor for breaking up couples. I read a rather alarming statistic the other day in a newspaper that said 3 out of 4 people have admitted to cheating on a partner in the past. I knew straying from a spouse or partner was a problem, but I didn't realise it was that big a problem. It's no wonder divorce is on the rise. Plus, changing attitudes to divorce mean it's no longer a big deal if your marriage doesn't work out. Which leads me to ask, is the issue of divorce a big deal according to traditional Hindus?
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Vannakkam Sunyata: In my Tamil community, divorce is a BIG issue, even in a young couple that made a mistake. There is ostracism (nicknamed the Tamil squeeze) in the worse case scenarios, and loneliness because of it. In some sects and groups, remarriage is 'forbidden' although of course a person may break this by their own volition. But certainly, the divorce rate is low. In 30 + years of living in a this Sri Lankan Tamil community, not once have I heard of adultery. Either it never happens, or people are sure quiet about it.

    Although divorce is very rare, unhappy marriages aren't that rare. But they sort of live separated within the same house.

    Personally, I think the lust thing comes partly out of media, a repressed Victorian attitude towards sex (also found in the 'be celibate' doctrine of some Hindu sects) and a lack of education into making the at home sex the best ever.

    Edited to add: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_extramarital.asp

    Aum Namasivaya
    Last edited by Eastern Mind; 27 October 2010 at 12:13 PM. Reason: add

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    I would agree mostly with this, Scott, but not all of this statement. My father is a very pious man, coming from a traditional Catholic home that used to be covered in images of the Virgin Mary, the Sacred Heart (which even die-hard Protestant idol haters use to decorate their homes), etc. It's a funny thing to say that Christians don't believe in using idols for worship, because it is not at all true - in which case, they're either very seriously in denial about what constitutes an idol or else just complete hypocrites.
    According to Catholic theology, there are three words that are translated in English as 'worship'. Latria refers to the veneration due to God alone. Dulia is closer to 'veneration' and hyperdulia is a special form of veneration given only to the Virgin Mary for her exalted status as the Mother of God. The images found in Catholic homes are like family photos - their purpose is to remind people of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and the Saints. Catholics do not worship the images (although Thomas Aquinas said that Christ's cross and the image of Christ should be worshipped with latria) and if they pray to the Saints it is only to ask the Saints to pray to God on their behalf.

    Even the cross that symbolises Christianity is an idol when people kneel before it in Mass.
    Catholics believe that Jesus is truly present in the Blessed Sacrament (the consecrated bread) which is kept in the Tabernacle and consecrated during the Mass. When Catholics kneel at Mass in a church before an altar, they are kneeling to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament (which nowadays is not kept on the altar but in a separate place). The Crucifix is a decoration reminding Catholics to be mindful of the suffering Jesus went through in order to secure their salvation.

    Vannakkam Sunyata: In my Tamil community, divorce is a BIG issue, even in a young couple that made a mistake. There is ostracism (nicknamed the Tamil squeeze) in the worse case scenarios, and loneliness because of it. In some sects and groups, remarriage is 'forbidden' although of course a person may break this by their own volition. But certainly, the divorce rate is low. In 30 + years of living in a this Sri Lankan Tamil community, not once have I heard of adultery. Either it never happens, or people are sure quiet about it.
    I don't know what the divorce rate in Malaysia is among Tamil Indian couples, but I know it does happen. I remember reading in the paper that the majority of Indian divorces result from interfering in-laws.

    I saw in Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami's Nandinatha Sutras that remarriage is forbidden. What would happen if one of his followers got divorced and remarried? Would they be "excommunicated"?

    I have no idea what the shastras say on divorce and remarriage. Anyone care to enlighten me?

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    Re: Intercaste, Interracial, and Interfaith Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia View Post
    I saw in Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami's Nandinatha Sutras that remarriage is forbidden. What would happen if one of his followers got divorced and remarried? Would they be "excommunicated"?

    I have no idea what the shastras say on divorce and remarriage. Anyone care to enlighten me?
    Vannakkam Scott: I don't know the answer to either question. I know divorce is acceptable in both cases for a variety of good reasons like physical abuse. As far as I know there is no 'excommunication' within Subramuniyaswami's SSC but I could be wrong. There have been members who moved on for various reasons as he was known for his strictness, as you know. Times (and policies get updated) change as well.

    Aum Namasivaya

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