Maya - the infinite measured out

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~

Namaste,

The notion of Maya is a subject that is a general discussion point. People generally consider this �illusion�� perhaps this is so. Another way of considering this is from the root of maya , maa or to measure. But to measure what? The immeasurable, the infinite (consciousness).

When the infinite, the vast, Bhuma, is measured out in finite parts, this is the feat of maya. Some think this is �cunning� or magic to seemingly constrain the infinite into something finite. Like a clay pot , that inside is seemingly holding akasha �constrained�, yet it is the akasha that holds the pot within space!

What is All-pervading? Visnu, from vis, to pervade. We know he measured out the universe with his three strides. His wife in the ved is Aditi, an appropriate name as it composed of a+ didhi or �a� not or opposite + �diti� or dual, so she is without duality, continuous, without seems, end or edge. She is associated with aksha or paramam vyomam, supreme space.

Aditi is also from �ad� to eat/swallow � to swallow all of existence e.g. all is contained within Her. Even the rishi�s call her anarva, without a vehicle ( or horse) because she is ubiquitous. Of what use is a vehicle if you are everywhere at once?

So, this maya, is the apparent limiting power that parses out paramam vyomam (supreme space/consciousness). It contains, and creates a boundary that becomes things. This maya then allows Shape and Form to exist and without akasha, no-thing can exist, because there is no space for it to exist in.

Let me know your thoughts on this� the conversation above becomes the foundation for something I ponder but do not have a grasp in understanding ( to my level of satisfaction) � that is, pralaya � �pra� is ~ away + �li� ~ is dissolve, or to dissolve away , dissolution of the entire universe as Brahma completes his 100 years.

Where does this all pervading space (paramam vyomam) go? Or what does it become? If no-thing, then is still space that cradles pralaya?

pranams,

[saidevo]

Where does this all pervading space (paramam vyomam) go? Or what does it become? If no-thing, then is still space that cradles pralaya?

From Chandogya Upanishad:

I-ix-1: (Salavatya) ‘What is the essence of this world ?’ ‘Akasa’ said (Pravahana); ‘All these beings arise from Akasa alone and are finally dissolved into Akasa; because Akasa alone is greater than all these and Akasa is the support at all times.’

III-xii-7-9: That which is (designated as) Brahman, even that is this Akasa outside the body. That which is the Akasa outside the body, even that is the Akasa inside the body. That which is the Akasa inside the body, even that is this Akasa within the (lotus of the) heart. This Brahman is all-filling and unchanging. He who knows (Brahman) thus, gets all-filling and unchanging prosperity.

III-xviii-1: The mind is Brahman, thus one should meditate – this is (the meditation) with regard to the body (including the mind). Next, the meditation with regard to the gods – the Akasa is Brahman, thus (one should meditate). Both the meditations, with regard to the body and with regard to the gods are being enjoined.

Therefore Space or Akasa is the ultimate, infinite and eternal (nirguna) Brahman or Tat. Brahman manifests a part of this space at Creation, using his Breath (Consciousness or Life Force or Intelligence) to create bubbles in space (which are the paramAnu-s or ultimate atoms) and aggregate them into various forms and imbuing those forms with life thereafter. At Pralaya, all forms dissolve into Space or Akasa and remains dormant and unmanifest in Brahman until the advent of the next cycle of Creation.

Space as the ultimate identity of Brahman explains His very nature. This is the Chidambara Rahasyam revealed by Lord Shiva.

[sarabhanga]

Hari OM and Namaste,



Akasha is not merely “space”, but rather it is “space-time” in all of its dimensions. Indeed, Akasha is the very foundation of all dimension and its mensuration, and that matrix itself is entirely unmarked, undivided, and beyond measure (infinite, unmatched, immortal, etc.). Strictly herself, although this huge, barren/virgin mother of all is one beyond any normal conception of gender.

[saidevo]

Namaste Sarabhanga,

Hari OM and Namaste,



Akasha is not merely “space”, but rather it is “space-time” in all of its dimensions. Indeed, Akasha is the very foundation of all dimension and its mensuration, and that matrix itself is entirely unmarked, undivided, and beyond measure (infinite, unmatched, immortal, etc.). Strictly herself, although this huge, barren/virgin mother of all is one beyond any normal conception of gender.

I think in another post you have mentioned the space-time continuum as a spiral rather than a cycle. In a spiral, unless it is spring-like, the circles (cycles) taper into a central point. Does this mean that the cosmic time cycle of kalpas and yugas are progressively lesser (or greater in an expansion) with every shristi after pralaya? Or is it spiral because of the progressive advancement of souls towards their source, which is the central point?

The concept of time (kala) seems to be a riddle. When it is conditional (Kanda kala), it is cyclical in nature, as with the case of our solar time and the cosmic time of yugas and kalpas. Time is measured in terms of events that take place in space (in all its dimensions). (And an event is a change in state). In the physical dimension time appears to be linear, flowing in an irreversible current from the future through the present into the past. In the higher dimensions (astral, mental and causal) time is a servant of consciousness, which enables a yogi to look into the past (may be using the Akashic Records).

When Consciousness is omnipresent, it is focussed on every point in space, and therefore on the events that take place at those points. This focus is not consecutive but concurrent, thereby precluding the presence of time, because under such Consciousness, events of the past, present and future happen simultaneously!

As against this perspective, it is also a fact that everythiing that happens in Cosmic Akasha is timed: shristi is timed, pralaya is timed and the interval between them is also timed (?). But then Srimad Bhagavadam says that Mahavishnu manifests time as the 25th element before Brahma's creations start. Does this mean that time as an element was dormant in the Lord in the interval between a prayala and the next shristi? Akasha as space is never dormant because it is the Brahman. During the Turiya state of Brahman between pralaya-shristi, nothing happens as nothing manifests. Does time cease to function in this state, and if so, how then is the next creation scheduled?

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Saidevo,

I have described the apparent sequence of temporal events as more like a spiral than an endlessly repeating circle, but the (11 dimensional ?) “space-time continuum” is difficult to describe in words. Within any dimension the progress is linear; only when conceived from without (outside or beyond) that dimension, however, the cycles (vibrations) are revealed.

In the first perfect (turiya) yuga, there are four units of time; in the second yuga there are three units of time; in the third yuga there are two units of time; and in the fourth final yuga there is only one unit of time.

The present kali yuga represents the ultimate measure of this diminishing vortex, which is comprised of ten (4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 10) units in total. And every such mahayuga (lasting 432 x 10,000 years) may be well described as a whirlpool of time, much like the “black hole” singularity at the heart of the created universe.

In pralaya there is no division ~ just as in (maha) akala there is no kala ~ and there is no possibility of time or space in any measurable dualistic sense.

Namaste Saidevo,

One thing is very important to remember.

"Time" only appears as the 25th element, and the whole process (without time) to the point of time's first manifestation is purely conceptual, so that any normal idea of "this follows that and then this follows that" cannot truly apply.

And beyond all of this, Mahakala (i.e. Mahan-Kala) was always there, unchanged from the beginning!

Then was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.

What covered in, and where? And what gave shelter? Was water there, of unfathomed depth?

Death was not then, nor was there immortality: no sign was there, the divider of day and night.

That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness, this All was indiscriminated chaos.

All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that Singularity.

Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire the primal seed and germ of Spirit.

Sages, who searched with their hearts, discovered the existent’s kinship in the non-existent.

Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?

There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder.

Who verily knows and who can declare it, when was it born and whence comes this creation?

The gods are later than this world’s production. Who knows then when it first came into being?

He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,

Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows it not.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Hari OM and Namaste,

Akasha is not merely “space”, but rather it is “space-time” in all of its dimensions. Indeed, Akasha is the very foundation of all dimension and its mensuration,

Namaste sarabhanga and saidevo,
thank you both for responding on my most favorate subject of Akasha... This is the krux of Brahman and is delightful as it gives my 3 to 4 dimensional mind a chance to stretch a bit.

On space-time.... I have talked to a few folks who suggest there is no time and once in the state of Kavaliya, there is only NOW.
For me , remaining in ignorance , I see the coming and going of Surya ( sun) and assign time to it - I am measuring out infinity in 24 hr time slots.
Yet with Space - there is the 'space' of the universe and the 'space' of chit or consciousness...this seems to be without bounds. Yet I know without Space+time, objects cannot exist.

The 11 dimensions , I have not heard a good example after 5 dimensions - or super string theory , of which I am ignorant. I listen and try to learn this , just for the awe that a human mind has been able to take the universe to this level .... have you seen anything in the ved that alludes to this?

pranams, and thank you for the conversations on this.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Yajvan,

String Theory strongly predicts the existence of eleven dimensions, and they are perhaps the very same eleven Rudras which are the manifest emanations of the one unseen Rudra in the ancient Vedas.

�String Theory� is the modern equivalent of Tantra (which is �knowledge of the loom�), and the quest for an ultimate �Unified String Theory� is the same goal of �Tantrika Monism�.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,
As I still am pondering this Maya, I have read a most insightful conversation by Sri Sri Chandrasekara Bharati Swaminah, late ShankarAcharya of Sringeri Sharada Peetam ...his brilliance is rewarding to read ( this was offered by another forum member, and I thank him for it)

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/Significance_of_the_name_Advaita.htm

Swamiji offers an alternative look at Maya , he says (my italics and color added)
" Viewing it (maya) as the sakti or power or potentiality of brAhman, it can have no independent existence of its own apart from the sakta, the Supreme Person or brAhman. From the still higher standpoint of absolute truth, it has no existence at all. mAyA is the name given to it because it IS NOT (ya ma), but seems to be, borrowing its seeming reality from the eternal verity called brAhman"

This is very profound as we find maya, backwords is Yama - and we know yama as restraints offered in the yoga of Patanjali. As Maya seemingly restrains the Immeasurable, into name and form - it is only borrowing this from the reality of Brahman.
Hence, this clearly infers that the Illimitable chooses to limit ITself, to measure out ITself and from this we see this as creation.


Or from the Rk Ved 2.40.3, rajasovimanam lokasya parichchhedakam - One who measures out and makes definite the world.
This word 'vimana' is key as it means to measure, limit, make definite.


All glory to Him who breathes out the Ved

[sarabhanga]

Hari Om

The waves have no independent existence apart from the ocean.

The vibrations have no independent existence apart from the string.

The undefined fabric of that limitless ocean is divided and defined by its own fluctuations, rising and falling and rising again in a harmony that is initiated and regulated by the very nature of the waters.

[atanu]

Hari Om
~~~~~

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Swamiji offers an alternative look at Maya , he says (my italics and color added)
" Viewing it (maya) as the sakti or power or potentiality of brAhman, it can have no independent existence of its own apart from the sakta, the Supreme Person or brAhman. From the still higher standpoint of absolute truth, it has no existence at all. mAyA is the name given to it because it IS NOT (ya ma), but seems to be, borrowing its seeming reality from the eternal verity called brAhman"

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All glory to Him who breathes out the Ved

Namaste,

This more or less finishes the discussion on Maya unless ------.

But, imitating Satay's mood of few days ago when He questioned the creator's intentions, I would also like to know why then Maya tortures?

Om