Without desire, how can we be proactive?

[Onkara]

In today's demanding environment, how do we continue to grow and achieve? One might say by embracing desire and passion we can move forward and engage in life.

Every professional and student faces the demand to improve and achieve in their field, surely the answer is not to drop out of society to find the divine answers to life? We are told that inertia or inactivity is counter productive and must be avoided, we cannot help but act. So how to make those actions beneficial and motivated over the long term?

If we embrace desire and passion, we are told that we risk attachment to the object of our desire. Through not achieving that desired object we risk anger and degradation, as explained in the Bhagavad Gita. But how do we continue to be proactive and achieve our goals yet not wander away from the spiritually divine?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Snip:

From my POV, it isn't the desire itself, but the emotional attachment to it that gets in the way. Desire grows food, builds temples, continues the species, creates art, music, etc. So desire can be useful.

But when an individual gets unnecessarily emotionally attached to these things, then the spirituality suffers, as you can't set yourself apart from it even for a moment.

Lets take something like as simple as missing lunch for example. Suppose you forget your lunch and you work somewhere where there is no cafeteria or place to purchase any food close by. You have two choices: You can get all upset about it, whine, and complain, and have it affect your work.... or.. you can just say, 'Oh, well, I forgot my lunch today. Perhaps God wanted me to fast," and get on with your work, fully realising that your body will last until evening. (This comes from my observation of others making choice one.)

This is a simple example, but you can apply the concept of having two choices to everything. With will power derived from the grace of God, and practice via sadhana, you are the controller of your emotions. With a proper religious attitude, even much larger things won't bother you much.

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

This fool has become affected by constant exposure...so please forgive<3

I have thought about this a lot. I feel if I had been wiser as a young adult, I would have never had children. I was inclined to never marry...living very much with the thought to give up everything. Suddenly I was derailed from this...it's been such a wonderous trip. Being a mother is a wonderful joy.

Life is like a big interactive movie theater, we do not choose most of the movies we are here to watch. Each movie affects us...each scene is the scenes of our lifetimes.

We desire, love, get angry...and loose our temper. Because we are so intimately involved in these things which play before us. It's hard not to be responsive to such intrisicly bound events.

We do feel...and this is part of our wonderful lifetime of lessons.

I also feel walking away is something you are pulled to do, as I have felt this pull...very strongly... I know the being behind this motherly vessel may be desiring this, but the mother is steadfast. It creates a duplicity, one which was unexpected. Between the being ready to move forward and the gross physical reality which is not aligned. So the being will wait for alignment between this desire and the appropriate moment.

I have seen some, in the middle of great emotional duress, walk away from their families and heavy obligations and claim it to be for spiritual reasons. Those few souls have done a great disservice to themselves and the people who depended upon them.

It's as if a circle were drawn around us. Over time we begin to drift to the edge of our existence. At the edge, with no obligations, we finally walk away.

But for those still squarely set with obligations and duties... You should desire a better life, embrace passion of life...these things can not be bad for those of us still heavy with the burdens of duty. It helps us strive forward to the goal.


When I was young, I prayed hours every day...all night sometimes. Then as a teen ...I continued this praying. But as I approached adulthood, I took an important job at a retail store. My Mother was the boss of a big military retail outlet that sold weapons and armor for the U.S. Military...I had been helping in the store for years in my leisure...selling stun guns and mace it set me up for department head of Goody's in our local town.

Prayer came to an hour a day. Slowly, as my duties increased...it went to barely 30 minutes everyday.

But, now...years later, upon this hill, the girl has gotten the blessing of this lifetime. Time to pray once again. I do not have to work and I don't, with the exception of my writing, which pays me monthly through pay pal.

So I can pray almost all the time. Even camping with the children. They have come to know the mantras as well as I have. Every chance I get...even in walmart. I've noticed the aum is so twisted into the very fiber of our being that no one even notices it, when I do so. It truly is the sound of our universe constantly playing...for anyone to pick up and notice.

But, it was by getting successfull that I was finally freed from the mundane to do such things to fill this desire to pray again. Those who have children have to strive very hard to raise and support them. Once the financial end is better, it frees us for the other wonderful things.

This is the reason for such desire. Every time I pray to Siva, I thank Him for the gift of this time which I have to devote to Him.

It was desire which brought me here...and the very Hand of Sivaya<3

[atanu]

Dear Snip and Friends

I had a discussion with a friend. I told him that as per my understanding surrender was the ultimate teaching of scripture. He refuted me by saying that "You will surrender". He meant that one will be made to surrender, irrespective of -------.

The view on the 'desire thingy' varies, depending on one's perspective. Shri Krishna teaches "Arjuna know that you are not the doer". He also teaches that all work is done by the forces of prakriti.

Desire is a product, also called hunger, which is equated to death, whereas the Self is deathless and is not a product.

Depending on the recipient sadhaka's ripeness, gurus teach differently. At the lowest level, people work under the ignorance of body-mind being the self. At second level, it is taught that desires and all fruits be dedicated to God. At another level, renunciation of ego means absolute lack of desire.

Shri Ramana teaches that at one level, it is impossible to do anything without striving, including sadhana but at another level it is impossible to strive -- there is no individual to strive.

Renunciation is said to be the highest means to attain liberation and renunciation is not merely wearing ochre clothes but it means the dawn of the simple knowledge that even this ego would not be there in absence of Brahman. Again Guru Ramana teaches that there are two types of desires: one kind is conducive to further binding and another kind is conducive for taking us forward. Most commonly, at our level, desirelessness will be impossible, but having a preference for an outcome over the opposite outcome may be binding.

The above is only an understanding.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

But how do we continue to be proactive and achieve our goals yet not wander away from the spiritually divine?

Namaste Snip,

I think that 'A small stream can always be traced back to its sauce', holds the answer.

Om Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast� atanu-ji

I think that 'A small stream can always be traced back to its sauce', holds the answer.

...would that be a hot 'sauce' ? Perhaps tikka masala, or vindaloo?

praṇām

[Eastern Mind]

deleted

[Onkara]

Thank you all for your replies, I am grateful as this is a topic of interest to me

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
...would that be a hot 'sauce' ? Perhaps tikka masala, or vindaloo?

praṇām

Yes. The sauce can be described as creating fear in mortals and unfathomable in appearance, somewhat like my local's vindaloo!

Shri Ramana teaches that at one level, it is impossible to do anything without striving, including sadhana but at another level it is impossible to strive -- there is no individual to strive.

... having a preference for an outcome over the opposite outcome may be binding.

Absolutely. Even the desire to avoid inaction or wrong action is still a desire. I would be bound to that desire if I take it as mine. To go beyond desire do we need to accept that we can never control or direct our actions? Is it so that man cannot act?

[Riverwolf]

In today's demanding environment, how do we continue to grow and achieve? One might say by embracing desire and passion we can move forward and engage in life.

Every professional and student faces the demand to improve and achieve in their field, surely the answer is not to drop out of society to find the divine answers to life? We are told that inertia or inactivity is counter productive and must be avoided, we cannot help but act. So how to make those actions beneficial and motivated over the long term?

If we embrace desire and passion, we are told that we risk attachment to the object of our desire. Through not achieving that desired object we risk anger and degradation, as explained in the Bhagavad Gita. But how do we continue to be proactive and achieve our goals yet not wander away from the spiritually divine?

One thing that I've been trying to do (not very well, mind you) is to do everything I do for the sake of God. As I feel that whatever is before me is a manifestation of God, whatever I do is for God.

For most of us, renunciation and living in the woods is not possible. Therefore, we must live in the world. But God is there, as well. I believe that we can have worldly goals and still lead a spiritual life, as long as we endeavor to not forget God and dharma.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Snip and all

Dhrama enjoy us to to be proactive (Purushartha) as we can not remain inactive, even if we don't want to the pangs of material existence will force us to act. tied with previous karma we will have to exhaust those desires that binds us here. Here is what Lord Krishna says,

One attains peace in whose mind all desires enter without creating any disturbance, as river waters enter the full ocean without creating a disturbance. One who desires material objects is never peaceful. (2.70)


One who abandons all desires and becomes free from longing and the feeling of 'I' and 'my' attains peace. (2.71)

It is the desires that binds us here and it is the desire that will lead us out of here.

Jai Shree Krishna