Saiism - Hindu sect or separate religion?

[ScottMalaysia]

Would you view the religious devotion to Sathya Sai Baba as a Hindu sect or a completely different religion?

While Sai Baba is a Hindu, that does not mean that worship of him is in any way part of Hinduism. Jesus Christ was a Jew, but that didn't mean that worship of him was part of Judaism. Indeed, those Jews who worshipped Jesus broke away from Judaism and formed a separate religion with beliefs contrary to those of Judaism. While they revered the scripture of their old religion (Old Testament or Tanach), the Christians invariably considered the New Testament to be better. I see a similar situation with the Sai Baba religion. While they do consider the Vedas to be divine, from what I've seen, they place more emphasis on the writings (Gospels?) of Sathya Sai Baba. They also have different beliefs, celebrating festivals from other religions and incorporating bits of other religions into their own spiritual practice (although they seem to have retained some Hindu practices like singing bhajans and performing Arati to Sathya Sai Baba's picture).

So should we class those who primarily follow Sathya Sai Baba as Hindus, or members of a different religion?

I know that if I was travelling and ended up in a location where there was no Hindu temple but there was a Sai temple, I would rather go to a church to pray than the Sai temple, because I know that in the church I'd be worshipping the same God that I would in the Hindu temple (and I do not believe that to be the case with the Sai temple). Of course I may go and have a look at the Sai temple, but I wouldn't take part in the worship there.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Scott:

My opinion is that you respect the view of the group and how they define themselves, just as you would respect an individual. if you tell me you're living in New Zealand, what am I to say? You're not? So if the Sai organisation defines itself as Saiism, then so be it. It is really none of my business unless I am part of said organisation, and wish to be able to answer other people clearly if they ask.

But as far as I know, you can be a member of any religion at all, and still be a follower of Satya Sai. I don't think the focus is on defining oneself. Here where I live many Sai devotees also come to our Hindu temple besides the local Sai center.

Aum Namasivaya

[atanu]

if you tell me you're living in New Zealand, what am I to say? You're not? So if the Sai organisation defines itself as Saiism, then so be it.

I wonder whether New Zealanders, being New Zealanders have ceased to be Earthly or not? And whether Saivas and Vaisnavas are Hindus or not?

Om Namah Shivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Atanu:

This body in this life is a Saivite Hindu and a Canadian Earthling. If someone wants to tell me that I'm neither of these, just some old grumpy nutcase with no soul, fine by me. Each is entitled to his own opinion, but personally, I'll respect how others define themselves. Most western Hindus like me have been told at one time or another that we're not Hindu, can't be Hindu but we trudged along anyway.

Aum Namasivaya

[ScottMalaysia]

Vannakkam Scott:

My opinion is that you respect the view of the group and how they define themselves, just as you would respect an individual. if you tell me you're living in New Zealand, what am I to say? You're not? So if the Sai organisation defines itself as Saiism, then so be it. It is really none of my business unless I am part of said organisation, and wish to be able to answer other people clearly if they ask.

What do they define themselves as? Do they claim their movement is Hindu or not? I know ISKCON doesn't like to use the label 'Hindu' (I had an ISKCON devotee tell me she doesn't know much about Hinduism), but what about the Sathya Sai movement?

But as far as I know, you can be a member of any religion at all, and still be a follower of Satya Sai. I don't think the focus is on defining oneself.

According to the Sathya Sai movement. If you're a Christian and you believe that Sathya Sai Baba is God, then you would be considered a heretic or apostate. Even more so if you're a Muslim - worshipping anything other than Allah automatically makes you a non-Muslim.

Here where I live many Sai devotees also come to our Hindu temple besides the local Sai center.

I'm assuming that they are Indian. I'm curious - do Western devotees of Sai Baba adopt Hindu practices, such as tilak and Indian dress, the way ISKCON devotees do?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Scott: I'm not really sure what the Sai movement defines itself as, other than the Sai movement. Their official website doesn't use the tern Hindu much, if at all. I suggest you go look at it if you want more information.

I only know one western devotee well, and he kind of takes on some Hindu practices, and kind of not. He comes to the temple to do seva, mostly cooking lunches, and fixing things. a very decent man, I might add. He and I get along well, but we don't go into talking about our Gurus. I've never been to the Sai center so don't know how many westerners go there. This fellow defines himself as a spiritualist. From my experience with Sai devotees, there is a whole lot of individualisation in their takes on it. I have met some 'hard core' types who start proselytysing and others who are really laid back on it.

Sometimes if you ask directly, you get vague answers like, it doesn`t really matter, or such things.

Yes, I realise that with most 'Christians' and 'Muslims', being a Sai devotee would mean apostate right away, but many people go against their faiths in many ways, and still claim to be of that faith. Its fairly interesting to me. I know Christians who say they don't believe in Christ. Quite the statement.

I prefer just to be a proud Hindu and say it outright, but at the same time respect the diversity in other's views. I find this way far less confusing for me personally.

I'm sure I'm not shedding a ton of light on the subject, am I.

Aum Namasivaya

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

I am not part of any Sai Organization, only a devotee, just as I am a devotee of the ShankarAchAryas of Kanchi and Shringeri, and of RamaNa. As far as I know, there is no such religious sect as Saiism. BhagavAn expects all his devotees to be better rooted in their own faiths and view him--as well as themselves--as an aMsha of their Godhead. Specifically, the following is the message of his mission:

I have come not to disturb or destroy any faith, but to confirm each in his own faith - so that the Christian becomes a better Christian, the Muslim, a better Muslim, and the Hindu, a better Hindu.

There is only one religion, the religion of Love;
There is only one language, the language of the Heart;
There is only one caste, the caste of Humanity;
There is only one law, the law of Karma;
There is only one God, He is Omnipresent

Because his mission is to unite minds across religions, religious festivals such as Christmas and New Year Day are celebrated at PrashAnti Nilayam, his main ashram at PuTTaparthi (put-apart-the-I, as he would say about the name of the place).

If one looks at the Calendar of Events, one would find that most of them are Hindu-related festivities:
http://www.sathyasai.org/calendar/fest.html

Besides these events, Vedic chanting and yajnas are conducted in the Ashram from time to time.

PrashAnti Nilayam publishes a monthly magazine whose name is 'SanAtana SArathi'. If one looks at his VAhini series of books and speeches, one can easily find that his teachings are nothing than those of SanAtana Dharma.

For other core messages of his, check:
http://www.eaisai.com/baba/

When I read the statements of people who are against Baba, I am only reminded of the 'kuch to lOg kahEngE' song in the Hindu film 'Amar Prem', specially these lines:

kuch tO lOg kahEnge - lOgOn kA kAm hain kahanA
People might say anything: their job is to say something.

tU kaun hai, tErA nAm hain kyA
SItA bhi yahAn badanAm huyE
fir kyo sansAr ki bAton sE
bhIg gaye tere nainA?

Who are you, what is your name?
Even SitA's name was spoiled here.
Then why do you get your eyes wet
with what the world says about whom?

If the Truth about God and Guru are known by personal connexion rather than in public congregations and writings, then Sai Baba is what he is to those who have made the connexion.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Saidevo:

Nandri for that.

Aum Namasivaya

[atanu]

I'm assuming that they are Indian. I'm curious - do Western devotees of Sai Baba adopt Hindu practices, such as tilak and Indian dress, the way ISKCON devotees do?

Namaste Scott

Not every Hindu applies Tilak etc. Nothing, except being kind, is mandatory. The final goal of Hindu Dharma, as taught in Vedanta, is truly to rise above the tags of gender, caste, state, official posts, dress codes etc etc. If a Guru emphasises this aspect of getting rid of tags then that guru does not become a non-hindu, in fact it is just the opposite.

I am not a devotee of Sai Baba and for some time in the past I had great antipathy because of his penchant for materialising things. Possibly that is his way, just as Jesus cured people.

Suppose, I am a troubled devotee seeking a support, and my guru gives me solace/confidence by showing some evidence that i can safely put myself in his care -- then there is nothing wrong and no cheating involved. Cheating is adultery. Being untruthful is adultery.

No one forces you to enter a Sai temple. On the other hand, there are Sai devotees on this forum.

I am not at all critical of you but just pointing to you the possibilities of error of judgement, when you judge a third person.


I can not say anything better than the following :

If the Truth about God and Guru are known by personal connexion rather than in public congregations and writings, then Sai Baba is what he is to those who have made the connexion.

---------------------

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ramakrishna]

Would you view the religious devotion to Sathya Sai Baba as a Hindu sect or a completely different religion?

While Sai Baba is a Hindu, that does not mean that worship of him is in any way part of Hinduism. Jesus Christ was a Jew, but that didn't mean that worship of him was part of Judaism. Indeed, those Jews who worshipped Jesus broke away from Judaism and formed a separate religion with beliefs contrary to those of Judaism. While they revered the scripture of their old religion (Old Testament or Tanach), the Christians invariably considered the New Testament to be better. I see a similar situation with the Sai Baba religion. While they do consider the Vedas to be divine, from what I've seen, they place more emphasis on the writings (Gospels?) of Sathya Sai Baba. They also have different beliefs, celebrating festivals from other religions and incorporating bits of other religions into their own spiritual practice (although they seem to have retained some Hindu practices like singing bhajans and performing Arati to Sathya Sai Baba's picture).

So should we class those who primarily follow Sathya Sai Baba as Hindus, or members of a different religion?

I know that if I was travelling and ended up in a location where there was no Hindu temple but there was a Sai temple, I would rather go to a church to pray than the Sai temple, because I know that in the church I'd be worshipping the same God that I would in the Hindu temple (and I do not believe that to be the case with the Sai temple). Of course I may go and have a look at the Sai temple, but I wouldn't take part in the worship there.

Namaste Scott,

Has it ever occurred to you that he could be a God-realized soul? You don't have to regard him as an avatar or worship him, and I certainly don't. But throughout history, especially in ancient times, there have been many sages, gurus, and yogis who were God-realized and attained special powers. There have even been some who were as powerful as the gods themselves, although this was much more prevalent in ancient times. But now we are in Kali Yuga, and a soul like Sai Baba is extremely rare indeed. I tend to not focus on all the accusations against him but rather I focus on what he teaches, which is pure love, and all the charitable acts that he has done.

Again, I don't pray to him, but I do highly respect him and certainly regard him and his followers as part of the all-encompassing Sanatana Dharma. In my view, if there is room for Jesus or Allah in Hinduism, then there should certainly be room for Sathya Sai Baba.

Jai Sri Krishna