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Thread: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

  1. #11
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    Smile Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Dear Snip,

    You remind me of an article I had written on this aspect long long ago.

    One is on a boat in a fast moving stream of the life. The direction and the speed of the stream is the inherited condition of the mind. As long as we are only listening to the mind and acting, we are child of destiny. Where the destiny takes us, we go.

    But this hardly happens in human birth.

    Fortunately the person is also given a paddle to steer. But the size of that paddle depends upon the reflected consciousness intensity and the inherited characteristics. The more clogged is the mind, the smaller is the paddle and vice versa.

    This paddle is the ablity of the intellect to rule over the mind or take decision beyond the mind. This we do. may be less when we are young and more when we mature. Then again it varies hugely from person to person. There are cases by which one guides himself to the bank of bliss and there are cases where one guides himself to the bank of dungeon. It all depends how we use the intellect paddle.

    That is why you will find that the initial journey on the spiritual path is tedious, confusing, directionless and sometimes chaotic. This constitutes of most of the people. But as they get into the knowledge part of the spiritual journey, the paddle becomes bigger and the ability to steer becomes better and the goal is achieved faster.

    So the destiny is in our hand. That we have given the ability to choose is the proof that we decide our destiny.

    Again as a society if the boat is having many humans the fate is decided by which side the numbers are more. If the dungeon side is more then there will be a need for a bigger paddle on the bliss side to balance and guide to bliss side. This is when avatar come into the sansar.

    The theory of creation is too big and complex to contain in a single writeup. But we can do some justice to it through connected writeups.

    Let us continue.

    Love and best wishes

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    Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Dear Snip,

    You remind me of an article I had written on this aspect long long ago.

    One is on a boat in a fast moving stream of the life. The direction and the speed of the stream is the inherited condition of the mind. As long as we are only listening to the mind and acting, we are child of destiny. Where the destiny takes us, we go.

    But this hardly happens in human birth.

    Fortunately the person is also given a paddle to steer. But the size of that paddle depends upon the reflected consciousness intensity and the inherited characteristics. The more clogged is the mind, the smaller is the paddle and vice versa.

    This paddle is the ablity of the intellect to rule over the mind or take decision beyond the mind. This we do. may be less when we are young and more when we mature. Then again it varies hugely from person to person. There are cases by which one guides himself to the bank of bliss and there are cases where one guides himself to the bank of dungeon. It all depends how we use the intellect paddle.

    That is why you will find that the initial journey on the spiritual path is tedious, confusing, directionless and sometimes chaotic. This constitutes of most of the people. But as they get into the knowledge part of the spiritual journey, the paddle becomes bigger and the ability to steer becomes better and the goal is achieved faster.

    So the destiny is in our hand. That we have given the ability to choose is the proof that we decide our destiny.

    Again as a society if the boat is having many humans the fate is decided by which side the numbers are more. If the dungeon side is more then there will be a need for a bigger paddle on the bliss side to balance and guide to bliss side. This is when avatar come into the sansar.

    The theory of creation is too big and complex to contain in a single writeup. But we can do some justice to it through connected writeups.

    Let us continue.

    Love and best wishes
    Dear Kallol
    Beautiful metaphoric post, like poetry lined with wisdom!

    I agree it seems to be an inherent condition of the mind. However, I do not recognise any boatman who handles the paddle of the intellect. I sit back, as if on an Italian gondola and warm my face in the bliss of divine light.

    Intellect is certainly steering away from the weeds which would muddy the mind, I can relate with your post. Afterall, what else could it be that steers the mind through the ancient scriptures, if not the intellect. But I cannot tell you when this intellect started, nor is there memory of anyone ever controlling it. Rather it is attracted to the good things in life (scriptures, learning, the wisdom of friends and teachers). It is almost as if it is propelled by a satvic undercurrent, rather than controlled through calculated decisions.

    The intellect does discard the temporary pleasures once it knows of something of more valuable. As you say, these short lived joys were more appealing in youth. So what has changed?

    Has the mind become less cluttered and clean and allowed the intellect to be steered more efficiently. Is it consciousness which is doing that steering? Is it consciousness itself which appears to decide on our destiny?

  3. #13
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    Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snip View Post
    Dear Kallol
    Beautiful metaphoric post, like poetry lined with wisdom!

    I agree it seems to be an inherent condition of the mind. However, I do not recognise any boatman who handles the paddle of the intellect. I sit back, as if on an Italian gondola and warm my face in the bliss of divine light.

    Intellect is certainly steering away from the weeds which would muddy the mind, I can relate with your post. Afterall, what else could it be that steers the mind through the ancient scriptures, if not the intellect. But I cannot tell you when this intellect started, nor is there memory of anyone ever controlling it. Rather it is attracted to the good things in life (scriptures, learning, the wisdom of friends and teachers). It is almost as if it is propelled by a satvic undercurrent, rather than controlled through calculated decisions.

    The intellect does discard the temporary pleasures once it knows of something of more valuable. As you say, these short lived joys were more appealing in youth. So what has changed?

    Has the mind become less cluttered and clean and allowed the intellect to be steered more efficiently. Is it consciousness which is doing that steering? Is it consciousness itself which appears to decide on our destiny?
    Again thanks Snip for your beautiful words.


    1. The boatman is the human and not anyone. The consciousness in this case is the ground on which the sansar stream runs. It is the ground on which the wheel of life runs. Without the ground there is no stream or no wheel.

    The consciousness is eternally constantly and all pervading. The prakriti is in cycles or waves. This it does in the presence of consciousness. But consciousness does not play a role in what prakriti does. Like the signal for the cell phones is available in the space. The cellphone works because of that. There is a small device in cellphone which recognises the signal and makes the cellphone alive. What converstaion takes place - the signal is no way connected. Assume we have signal with power also (which might be possible one day). Now that can be an analogy of the consciousness.

    The bliss of consciousness is reflected more on the people who remaining in the sansar is also a sanyasi (at mental level) and gyani (of TRUTH). They do all karmas as duties without getting attached. Keeps the mind and intellect at a level which is always attached to the TRUTH. This, at the highest level, is the Avatara. But these people are the special people for special purposes, which are required sparingly.

    2. The mind is the I/O port for the body. the external stimulii comes through the mind and is processed & kept as experience in the intellect. Again the processed output is also through the mind to activate the action points.

    This phenomenon indicates that the intellect's power of processing & experience holding is subject to the condition of mind. This mind, being the entity which moves from body to body, is also the carrier for the karmaphals. This karmaphals are stored in terms of basic entities which dictates the charateristics of a person towards the sansar. Initially the kid starts with these and the mind plays a bigger role for the actions. The intellect is blank at the birth. This part is the initial learning part where we mostly have Sense, React and little Learn.

    Then gradually the intellect picks up with the experience gained out of the filtered signals coming from the external senses through the mind. As it matures (this is what we call as self learning in robotics term), it starts to use the experience to Plan. So slowly and surely the human moves towards Learn, Sense, Plan & React. Because we have the Plan capability (which is not there to this extent in any others), we also are stakeholders in defining our destiny. Better Learning we have, the Better the Intellect guides the mind.

    3. As mentioned Consciousness (like signal or light) only enables the prakriti to perform but it does not take part in the performance or is not responsible for the performance.

    Love and best wishes

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    Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Again thanks Snip for your beautiful words.


    1. The boatman is the human and not anyone. The consciousness in this case is the ground on which the sansar stream runs. It is the ground on which the wheel of life runs. Without the ground there is no stream or no wheel.
    Namaste Kallol
    This is interesting. I understand the bold above to mean that the humanoid is the boatman. Rather than an individual, it is the nature of being human that guides/controls the paddles. In other words the phenomenon of being a human is that which makes decisions because a human has mind,intellect,memory,ego etc. Is that what you mean?

    I ask as I associated being human as being a part of prakriti. In doing so one can go beyond the idea that "I am the body-mind-intellect" and see that it is nature which operates, not consciousness. Consciousness is my true Self, and it is abiding in consciousness that is the summum bonum.

    Best wishes

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    Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Dear Snip,

    The "I" had been always different because of our clogged mind - when reflects directly the "I" is the mind. Before that "I' is the body. After there is lots of declogging then "I" is the intellect. But the people who are in the Gyana Yoga phase knows that "I" is the reflected consciousness.

    About the evolution I will cut and paste something which I penned quite sometime back on the evolution and postion of human and thereafter.

    "
    Just like any fetus being nurtured and groomed in a protective enclosure inside a liquid medium, similarly the first life-forms were nurtured and grown in water bodies. Again just like the earlier phase, each step in this phase of evolution is the support structure for the next step of the evolution. So we find the plant kingdom evolving first and then later on the animal kingdom starts. Any step is a bridge between the earlier one and the next one - cause and effect rule.
    For independent chartering of the life path there are four major factors, which we come across.

    1. Learn
    2. Sense (through sensory organs / mind)
    3. Plan
    4. React / Proact

    In the plant evolution, the proactive quotient, intelligence and mind are in the minimal state. It is the two points : Sense and React, which are mostly present (in the case of the earlier phase it was mostly forced reactions). So mostly they do whatever they are meant for. They hardly change the way they are. But they grow, they adjust the strength of their trunk, branches according to need. Now what did they use for growth, sustain, and further evolution ? They used the earth, the water, the oxygen and the light. It is a fascinating journey of evolution. They bear leaves, fruits and strong branches.

    This creates the ideal support system for the next phase of evolution, the herbivorous animals. This is again a major change in the evolution which added the learning factor and marginal planning factor. Though the transition came through slowly but as it evolved, the main food for them was these plants. As in the earlier cases, it also started from monocells. Here on the evolution became faster. Different environment and DNA strains created different herbivorous creatures. It evolved to become giant creatures. It can move, it can think, it can decide and it can act accordingly. But the evolution was still not over. Though structurally these creatures had huge sizes, but the ability to think, analyze and plan had lot to be developed. These creatures became the support structure for the next step, carnivorous creatures.

    Again the creation started from the smallest ones and later evolved into the bigger ones. Ferocious and hungry giants. But again they were limited by their brain and mind power. Here also the planning part is limited. Till now we have sizes in physical attributes but limitations in the mental attributes. Even though we have millions of years of evolution, none of these creatures could evolve the planning part to the extent of human.

    This is the next step to the evolution. . Somewhere, there was a change in the DNA, when we have a branch in the evolution which consisted of omnivorous creatures. In these omnivorous creatures, we find the human species to be the leader. This human species is almost unique. This has combination of many attributes which enable them to change the way of evolvement much much faster than in history. Just in above a few million years, this species has moved out of the caves to reach out to the sky. Never ever the earth has witnessed this rapid evolution. Of what ? No not the physical attributes but mostly in the mental attributes. Now we have all the four parameters learning, sensing, planning and reacting working in tandem. If the sensing is mostly external oriented, the actions are mostly reactive, but if the sensing is internally oriented the actions are mostly proactive.

    This attribute led to the scientific studies and also towards the search for the roots of all these causes. The activities can be divided mostly in two streams, material and mental. The science has also propagated in material field and mental field. .......
    What is the next step ? Or whether there will be further radical evolution of another species ? We do not have any answer to these now. "

    Love and best wishes
    Last edited by kallol; 25 September 2010 at 12:48 PM.

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    Re: Avatar - How & Why this phenomenon happens ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Dear Snip,

    The "I" had been always different but our clogged mind - when reflects directly the "I" is the mind. Before that "I' is the body. After there is lots of declogging then "I" is the intellect. But the people who are in the Gyana Yoga phase knows that "I" is the reflected consciousness.

    About the evolution I will cut and paste something which I penned quite sometime back on the evolution and postion of human and thereafter.
    Thank you, dear Kallol, for the answer
    I think this is spot on explanation of how the mind is cleared. I am going to "stick my neck out" with the topic of evolution and say that I do not personally see a need for it to help my mind/intellect to arive at knowing consciousness. I do not imply that it is not useful or that things don't change or evolve, however from the perspective of consciousness, all change is occuring at the level of shakti or prakriti and it is inconsequencial when that is known. Please do not feel any harshness in this, but I hope it helps to understand why I feel that an Avatar is only apparently a body-mind but is much more beyond prakriti.

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