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Thread: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

  1. #1
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    Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Hi Devotees,

    I ask this question only to be enlightened.

    I will be honest with you all. I like Shiva because Shiva/Rudra is who I consider a great Vaishnav. I like him so much that I have actually learnt Rudram Namakam.

    But in BhagavadGita, Sri Vasudeva Krishna cautions against worshipping a "Kshudra Devata".

    My question is, did Sri Krishna consider Shiva a "Kshudra Devata"? Is there any harm in worshipping Shiva?

    --
    Respectfully,
    Ravilochana
    Last edited by satay; 14 August 2010 at 01:20 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Namaste Ravilochana,

    Only you can know if Lord Shiva is the right deity to worship for you. Certain Vaishnavas, particularly ISKCON, believe that Lord Shiva is a worshipper of Lord Vishnu and is considered the greatest Vaishnava. However, there are also hundreds of millions of Hindus who worship Lord Shiva as the supreme form of God.

    Lord Krishna is my ishta-deva and most of my prayers are to Him, but I also pray to Lord Shiva and other deities. I don't consider Lord Shiva a Vaishnava or anything, but just another great form of God. I just personally feel more attracted to Lord Krishna.

    Jai Sri Krishna

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    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    Namaste Ravilochana,

    However, there are also hundreds of millions of Hindus who worship Lord Shiva as the supreme form of God.
    Vannakkam Ravilochana: And I am one of these millions that Ramakrishna refers to. For me, I'm happy at a place like Tanjore where there is only Siva. He ia all and in all, so what else do I need. But I also worship Murugan and Ganesha. Rarely do I worship Shaktis or forms of Vishnu, but on occasion, in the spirit of Hindu solidarity, I would just to demonstrate my brotherhood with all Hindus.

    But I totally agree with Ramakrishna again that it is totally your choice. Where do you feel most comfortable, most at peace, more rejuvenated after ... all this and more. It is much more about feeling it than intellectualising it. Best wishes in discovering this.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    namate Ravilochana.

    It is heartening to note that your VaishNava inclinations include your liking Shiva. But then it is somewhat surprising that you have a doubt that Shiva could be a fit deity to worship, although you say you have learned shrI Rudram and so would be familiar with this verse therein:

    namaste astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya
    tripurAntakAya trikAgni-kAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya
    nIlakaNThAya mrutyuMjayAya sarveshvarAya
    sadAshivAya shrImanmahAdevAya namaH || 2.0 ||

    As against what some VaiShNavities and ISKCONites believe and debate about Shiva, there are millions of Hindus who worship Shiva-Shakti, MahAViShNu and shrI KRShNa as the form of the Brahmam, the ParamAtman. This means that they don't differentiate between these godforms, and understand the import of the messages in the PurANas that speak one as a devotee of another. The fact that it is common among Hindus to have personal names such as SivaRAmaKRSHNan, RAmaSubrahmaNyan, SankaraNArAyaNan, RAmalingam, and so on is testimony to this perception of inclusion.

    • Can you point out any reference in the Bhagavad GItA where shrI KRShNa refers to Shiva as a 'kShudra devata'?

    As far as I can check, the only place where this term 'kShudra' appears is in verse 2.3:

    klaibyaM mA sma gamaH pArtha naitattvayyupapadyate |
    kShudraM hR^idayadaurbalyaM tyaktvottishhTha paraMtapa || 2.03 ||

    Be not a coward, PArtha, it is unbefitting for you. Abandon this weekness of the heart and stand up, O enemy-scorcher.

    • That shrI KRShNa considers Shiva as a kShudra devata--inferior deity, is nothing but disinformation spread by some passionate ViShNu/KRShNa devotees who do disservice to their own deities.

    Here are some quotes of what shrI KRShNa says in the GItA about Rudra-Shiva:
    In the 10th chapter called vibhUtiyoga, shrI KRShNa identifies himself with SaMkara-Shiva:

    rudraaNAM shaN^karashchAsmi vittesho yakSharakShasAM |
    vasUnAM paavakashchAsmi meruH shikhariNAmaham || 10.23 ||

    Of the Rudras I am SaMkara; of the YakShas and RAkShasas, Vittesa;
    And I am Agni of the Vasus; of the mountains I am Meru.

    In the 11th chapter on his vishvarUpa-darshanam he says:

    Behold the Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, the two Ashvins, as well as the Maruts.
    Behold my marvels never seen before, O BhArata. 11.6

    • As regards the legend of BANAsura, it seems that the story has esoteric meanings, as briefly explained in these links:

    http://divine-energytools.com/
    http://www.trsiyengar.com/id59.shtml
    http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/prof...ge-and-quantum

    *****

    The MahANArAyaNa UpaniShad has this identification and adoration:

    namo rudrAya viShNave mRtyurme pAhi || 75.1 ||
    Salutations to Rudra, and to ViShNu (or Rudra who is ViShNu). Guard me from death.

    Also check the time-honoured truths in these temples:
    http://sankarankovil.blogspot.com/20...na-temple.html
    http://www.ola.in/galleries/Navaikulam/index2.html
    http://ssntemple.org/

    By the way, you are SankaraNArAyaNa yourself, because your username is:
    • epithet of Shiva, according to 'Shiva gItA' ascribed to 'Padma purANa'
    • epithet of ViShNu according to Lexicographers such as AmarasiMha
    Last edited by saidevo; 09 August 2010 at 11:26 AM.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  5. #5

    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Namaste Ravilochana,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Where do you feel most comfortable, most at peace, more rejuvenated after ... all this and more. It is much more about feeling it than intellectualising it.
    This is very very true. Hinduism is a religion that is much more about feeling and experiencing it than it is about intellectualizing or rationalizing. Those things can still help, but I think ultimately it is the feeling and experiencing that matters more.

    Why not just spend some time, or a lot of time, devoutly meditating upon and praying to Lord Shiva. Then see how you feel. Then you will know if He is the "right" deity to worship for you.

    But I see the last question you ask in the OP is if there is any harm in worshipping Lord Shiva. There is definitely no harm in doing so, but it may not be beneficial or you may not feel any benefits. But there is definitely no harm. That's why through experience and feeling you will be able to tell if Lord Shiva is right for you.

    Jai Sri Krishna

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    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Pranam Saidevo ji

    Thank you, there is not much left to say, perhaps Ravilochana may wish to read Bhagvat puran, Prajapati praying to Lord Shiva, the churning of the ocean and also Lord Brahma's Prayer to Lord Shiva
    O siva , I know that You are the Supreme controller(Parameswara), You are both the father and the mother of the entire cosmic manifestation and as the one ever auspicious and supreme brahman who is beyond cosmic manifestation" (SB 4:6:42 )


    If you like i can quote Tulsidas Goswami pure Ram Bhakta, his perspective on Lord Shiva or just listen to his rudrashtakam.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPw3A1k6N58&NR=1

    like Saidevo i also would like to know where in Gita Lord Krishna mentions "Kshudra Devata".

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  7. #7

    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravilochana View Post
    Hi Devotees,

    I ask this question only to be enlightened.

    I will be honest with you all. I like Shiva because Shiva/Rudra is who I consider a great Vaishnav. I like him so much that I have actually learnt Rudram Namakam.

    But in BhagavadGita, Sri Vasudeva Krishna cautions against worshipping a "Kshudra Devata".
    Is there any harm in worshipping Shiva?

    --
    Respectfully,
    Ravilochana
    Dear Ravilochana,
    Namaskar

    The answer is - INDEED.
    There is no question of Shiva being a "Kshudra devata". In fact I'm coming across this for the first time. Lord Shiva is known as Devadidev!
    He's one without a beginning or an end. He is often known as the Maheswara!
    One above the Ishvara! The supreme being.
    Iskcon and Gaudiyas preach Shiva to be a "servant" of Krsna and a vaishnava. But Vishnu has worshipped Lord Shiva in every yuga and incarnation hundreds and thousands of times. This is revealed by Lord Krishna himself as he repeats these words revealed unto him by Lord Sarva (Shiva) Himself.
    Vishnu worshiped Shiva and offered his own eye on the Shivalinga pleasing Lord Shiva who presents him with his favorite most formidable weapon - the Sudarshan chakra. Lord Rama earnestly seeks Virja deeksha and Pashupat diksha from sage Agastya and worships Lord Shiva to please him as he wandered in search of goddess Sita. Again he worships Lord Shiva at Rameshwaram. He also sends Lord Hanuman to Mount Kailash to attain a special Shivalinga for the purpose from Lord Shiva.

    Shri Krishn worshipped Lord Shiva to appease him and receive the greatest boons from him. For this he approach the great sage Upamanyu and receives from him Maha Pashupaat Diksha wears all the staunch Shaiva symbols and spends first month on fruits, second on water and rest 4 month on nothing but air standing on one leg with his hands lifted above his head meditating on Lord Shiva. He also received the Shiva sahasranaam and special mantras from sage Upamanyu.

    Upon seeing Lord Shiva, Krishna addresses him with names as Bhava, Sarva, Shankara..
    Lord Krishna's Prayer to lord Shiva

    namo 'stu te śāśvatasarvayone; brahmādhipaṃ tvām ṛṣayo vadanti
    tapaś ca sattvaṃ ca rajas; tamaś ca tvām eva satyaṃ ca vadanti santaḥ

    The blessed Vishnu said, 'I saluted Mahadeva, saying,--Salutations to thee, O thou that art the eternal origin of all things. The Rishis say that thou art the Lord of the Vedas. The righteous say that thou art Penance, thou art Sattwa, thou art Rajas, thou art Tamas, and thou art Truth


    tvaṃ vai brahmā ca rudraś ca varuṇo 'gnir manur bhavaḥ
    dhātā tvaṣṭā vidhātā ca tvaṃ prabhuḥ sarvato mukhaḥ

    Thou art Brahma, thou art Rudras, thou art Varuna, thou art Agni, thou art Manu, thou art Bhava, thou art Dhatri, thou art Tashtri, thou art Vidhatri, thou art the puissant Master of all things, and thou art everywhere.

    tvatto jātāni bhūtāni sthāvarāṇi carāṇi ca
    tvam ādiḥ sarvabhūtānāṃ saṃhāraś ca tvam eva hi

    All beings, mobile and immobile, have sprung from thee. This triple world with all its mobile and immobile entities, has been created by thee.

    ye cendriyārthāś ca manaś ca kṛtsnaṃ; ye vāyavaḥ sapta tathaiva cāgniḥ
    ye vā divisthā devatāś cāpi puṃsāṃ; tasmāt paraṃ tvām ṛṣayo vadanti

    The Rishis say that thou art superior to the senses, the mind, the vital breaths, the seven sacrificial fires, all others that have their refuge in the all-pervading Soul, and all the deities that are adored and worthy of adoration.

    vedā yajñāś ca somaś ca dakṣiṇā pāvako haviḥ
    yajñopagaṃ ca yat kiṃ cid bhagavāṃs tad asaṃśayam

    Thou, O illustrious one, art the Vedas, the Sacrifices, Soma, Dakshina, Pavaka, Havi, and all other requisites of sacrifice.

    iṣṭaṃ dattam adhītaṃ ca vratāni niyamāś ca ye
    hrīḥ kīrtiḥ śrīr dyutis tuṣṭiḥ siddhiś caiva tvad arpaṇā

    The merit obtained by sacrifices, gifts made to others, the study of the Vedas, vows, regulations in respect of restraint, Modesty, Fame, Prosperity, Splendour, Contentment, and Success, all exist for leading to thee.


    kāmaḥ krodho bhayaṃ lobho madaḥ stambho 'tha matsaraḥ
    ādhayo vyādhayaś caiva bhagavaṃs tanayās tava


    Desire, Wrath, Fear, Cupidity, Pride, Stupefaction, and Malice, Pains and Diseases, are, O illustrious one, thy children.

    kṛtir vikāraḥ pralayaḥ pradhānaṃ prabhavo 'vyayaḥ
    manasaḥ praramā yoniḥ svabhāvaś cāpi śāśvataḥ
    avyaktaḥ pāvana vibho sahasrāṃśo hiraṇmayaḥ

    Thou art all acts that creatures do, thou art the joy and sorrow that flow from those acts, thou art the absence of joy and sorrow, thou art that Ignorance which is the indestructible seed of Desire, thou art the high origin of Mind, thou art Puissance, and thou art Eternity.Thou art the Unmanifest, thou art Pavana, thou art inconceivable, thou art the thousand-rayed Sun, thou art the effulgent Chit, thou art the first of all the topics, and thou art the refuge of life.


    ādir guṇānāṃ sarveṣāṃ bhavān vai jīvanāśrayaḥ
    mahān ātmā matir brahmā viśvaḥ śambhuḥ svayambhuvaḥ

    buddhiḥ prajñopalabdhiś ca saṃvit khyātir dhṛtiḥ smṛtiḥ
    paryāya vācakaiḥ śabdair mahān ātmā vibhāvyase

    Thou art Trigunas, Thou art Mahat atma, Thou art Brahman, Thou art Universe, Thou art Sambhu, and Thou art Self-born and Thou art intellect,Thou art Prajna,Thou art sound(vedas),

    tvāṃ buddhvā brāhmaṇo vidvān an pramohaṃ nigacchati
    hṛdayaṃ sarvabhūtānāṃ kṣetrajñas tvam ṛṣiṣṭutaḥ

    Verily, regarding thee as all this, the learned Brahmanas win over that ignorance which lies at the root of the world.Thou residest in the heart of all creatures, and thou art adored by the Rishis as Kshetrajna.


    sarvataḥ pāṇipādas tvaṃ sarvato 'kṣiśiromukhaḥ
    sarvataḥ śrutimāṁl loke sarvam āvṛtya tiṣṭhasi

    Thy arms and feet extend to every place, and thy eyes, head, and face are everywhere. Thou hearest everywhere in the universe, and thou stayest, pervading all things.

    phalaṃ tvam asi tigmāṃśo nimeṣādiṣu karmasu
    tvaṃ vai prabhārciḥ puruṣaḥ sarvasya hṛdi saṃsthitaḥ
    aṇimā laghimā prāptir īśāno jyotir avyayaḥ

    Of all acts that are performed in the Nimeshas and other divisions of time that spring in consequence of the puissance of the Sun, thou art the fruit. Thou art the original effulgence (of the supreme Chit).Thou art Purusha, and thou residest in the hearts of all things. Thou art the various Yogic attributes of success, viz., Subtility and Grossness and Fruition and Supremacy and Effulgence and Immutability.

    tvayi buddhir matir lokāḥ prapannāḥ saṃśritāś ca ye
    dhyānino nityayogāś ca satyasaṃdhā jitendriyāḥ

    Understanding and intelligence and all the worlds rest upon thee. They that are devoted to meditation, that are always engaged in Yoga, that are devoted to or firm in Truth and that have subjugated their passions, seek thee and rest on thee.

    yas tvāṃ dhruvaṃ vedayate guhā śayaṃ; prabhuṃ purāṇaṃ puruṣaṃ viśvarūpam
    hiraṇmayaṃ buddhimatāṃ parāṃ gatiṃ; sa buddhimān buddhim atītya tiṣṭhati

    They that know thee for one that is Immutable, or one that resides in all hearts, or one that is endued with supreme puissance, or one that is the ancient Purusha, or one that is pure Knowledge, or one that is the effulgent Chit, or one that is the highest refuge of all persons endued with intelligence, are certainly persons of great intelligence. Verily, such persons stay, transcending intelligence.

    viditvā sapta sūkṣmāṇi ṣaḍaṅgaṃ tvāṃ ca mūrtitaḥ
    pradhānavidhiyogasthas tvām eva viśate budhaḥ

    By understanding the seven subtile entities (viz., Mahat, Ego, and five subtile primal elements called Tanmatras), by comprehending thy six attributes (of Omniscience, Contentment of Fullness, Knowledge without beginning, Independence, Puissance that is not at fault at any time and that is infinite), and being conversant with Yoga that is freed from every false notion, the man of knowledge succeeds in entering into thy great self

    vam ukte mayā pārtha bhave cārti vināśane
    carācaraṃ jagat sarvaṃ siṃhanādam athākarot

    After I had said these words, O Partha, unto Bhava, that dispeller of grief and pain, the universe, both mobile and immobile, sent up a leonine shout (expressive of their approval of the correctness of my words).

    sa vipra saṃghāś ca surāsurāś ca; nāgāḥ piśācāḥ pitaro vayāṃsi
    rakṣogaṇā būta gaṇāś ca sarve; maharṣayaś caiva tathā praṇemuḥ

    The innumerable Brahmanas there present, the deities and the Asuras, the Nagas, the Pisachas, the Pitris, the birds, diverse Rakshasas, diverse classes of ghosts and spirits, and all the great Rishis, then bowed down unto that great Deity.


    mama mūrdhni ca divyānāṃ kusumānāṃ sugandinām
    rāśayo nipatanti sma vāyuś ca susukho vavau

    There then fell upon my head showers of celestial flowers possessed of great fragrance, and delicious winds blew on the spot.

    nirīkṣya bhagavān devīm umāṃ māṃ ca jagad dhitaḥ
    śatakratuṃ cābhivīkṣya svayaṃ mām āha śaṃkaraḥ

    The puissant Sankara then, devoted to the good of the universe, looked at the goddess Uma and the lord of the celestials and myself also, and thus spoke unto me,

    vidmaḥ kṛṣṇa parāṃ bhaktim asmāsu tava śatruhan
    kriyatām ātmanaḥ śreyaḥ prītir hi paramā tvayi

    vṛṇīṣvāṣṭau varān kṛṣṇa dātāsmi tava sattama
    brūhi yādava śārdūlayān icchasi sudurlabhān

    -We know, O Krishna, that thou, O slayer of foes, art filled with the greatest devotion towards us. Do what is for thy good. My love and affection for thee is very great. Do thou ask for eight boons. I shall verily give them unto thee, O Krishna, O best of all persons, tell me what they are, O chief of the Yadavas. Name what thou wishest. However difficult of attainment they be, thou shalt have them still.'"


    kṛsna said : ( Mahabharata, Anushasan parva Book 13, chapter 16, Verses 1 to 11 )

    mūrdhnā nipatyaniyatas tejaḥ saṃnicaye tataḥ
    paramaṃ harṣam āgamya bhagavantam athābruvam

    dharme dṛḍhatvaṃ yudhi śatrughātaṃ; yaśas tathāgryaṃ paramaṃ balaṃ ca
    yogapriyatvaṃ tava saṃnikarṣaṃ; vṛṇe sutānāṃ ca śataṃ śatāni

    evam astv iti tad vākyaṃ mayoktaḥ prāha śaṃkaraḥ

    TRANSLATION :

    The blessed Krishna said, 'Bowing my head with great joy unto that mass of energy and effulgence, I said these words unto the great Bhagavan Shiva, with a heart filled with gladness,--

    1) Firmness in virtue, (dharme dṛḍhatvaṃ)
    2) The slaughter of foes in battle,(yudhi śatrughātaṃ)
    3) The highest fame,(yaśas tathāgryaṃ )
    4) The greatest might, (paramaṃ balaṃ)
    5) Devotion to Yoga, (yogapriyatvaṃ)
    6) Thy adjacence, (ava saṃnikarṣaṃ)and
    7) Hundreds upon hundreds of children, (vṛṇe sutānāṃ ca śataṃ śatāni)

    these are the boons I solicit of thee,--So be it,--said Sankara


    tato māṃ jagato mātā dharaṇī sarvapāvanī
    uvācomā praṇihitā śarvāṇī tapasāṃ nidhiḥ

    After this, the mother of the universe, the upholders of all things, who cleanses, all things, viz., the spouse of Sarva, that vast receptacle of penances said with a restrained soul these words unto me,--

    datod bhagavatā putraḥ sāmbo nāma tavānagha
    matto 'py aṣṭau varān iṣṭān gṛhāṇa tvaṃ dadāmi te
    praṇamya śirasā sā ca mayoktā pāṇḍunandana

    'The puissant Mahadeva has granted thee, O sinless one, a son who shall be named Samba. Do thou take from me also eight boons which thou choosest. I shall certainly grant them to thee.-- Bowing unto her with a bend of my head, I said unto her, O son of Pandu,--


    dvijeṣv akopaṃ pitṛtaḥ prasādaṃ; śataṃ sutānām upabhogaṃ paraṃ ca
    kule prītiṃ mātṛtaś ca prasādaṃ; śama prāptiṃ pravṛṇe cāpi dākṣyam

    I solicit from thee non-anger against the Brahmanas, grace of my father, a hundred sons, the highest enjoyments, love for my family, the grace of my mother, the attainment of tranquillity and peace, and cleverness in every act!'

    evaṃ bhaviṣyaty amaraprabhāva; nāhaṃ mṛṣā jātu vade kadā cit
    bhāryā sahasrāṇi ca ṣoḍaśaiva; tāsu priyatvaṃ ca tathākṣayatvam

    "Uma said, 'It shall be even so, O thou that art possessed of prowess and puissance equal to that of a celestial. I never say what is untrue. Thou shalt have sixteen thousand wives. Thy love for them and theirs also for thee shall be unlimited.

    prītiṃ cāgryāṃ bāndhavānāṃ sakāśād; dadāmi te vapuṣaḥ kāmyatāṃ ca
    bhokṣyante vai saptatir vai śatāni; gṛhe tubhyam atithīnāṃ ca nityam

    From all thy kinsmen also, thou shalt receive the highest affection. Thy body too shall be most beautiful. Seven thousand guests will daily feed at thy palace.'

    evaṃ dattvā varān devo mama devī ca bhārata
    antarhitaḥ kṣaṇe tasmin sagaṇo bhīma pūrvaja

    etad atyadbhutaṃ sarvaṃ brāhmaṇāyātitejase
    upamanyave mayā kṛtsnam ākhyātaṃ kauravottama

    Vasudeva continued, 'Having thus granted me boons both the god and the goddess, O Bharata, disappeared there and then with their Ganas, O elder brother of Bhima. All those wonderful facts I related fully, O best of kuru kings, to that Brahmana of great energy, viz., Upamanyu (from whom I had obtained the Diksha before adoring Mahadeva).

    namaskṛtvā tu sa prāha devadevāya suvrata
    nāsti śarva samo dāne nāsti śarva samo raṇe

    Bowing down unto the great God, Upamanyu said these words to me.':
    "Upamanyu said, 'There is no deity like Sarva. There is no end or refuge like Sarva. There is none that can give so many or such high boons. There is none that equal him in battle.'"


    ------- .... I can write more and give more references about the beautiful relationship of Lord Shiva and Krishna.

    So Yes Lord Shiva is definitely the Maheshvara to be worshipped by one and all. His worship has been wide spread in Vedic times too when Krishna, the whole of Nandgram, Nand baba, Gopis, Queen Kunti, Gandhari, so many great Vedic sages worshipped Lord Shiva.

    But you should meditate upon the deities as you feel in your heart. Chant the mantra of Lord Shiva, Rama and Krishna and feel who you feel more attachment towards and accept his worship. The worship of Lord Rama and Krishna are wonderful.

    From a sadhak's perspective, important is your establishing contact with your ishta devta. How deeply you are able to go into your sadhna and attachment with the deva is important and what matters while respecting and holding the other forms of God in highest esteem and never belittling one or the other form.
    Wish you success and divine love.

    Yogkriya.
    Last edited by satay; 14 August 2010 at 01:21 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Namaste Friends

    Often I am also perplexed by the (apparent ?) humiliation that Lord Shiva, who is described as Mahadeva, SadaShiva, Mahesvara, Parameshwara, Param Purusha, Param Atman, Direct Brahman, in Upanishads, undergoes at the hands of Vishnu in Puranas.

    Now I am not able to offer any fast and glib opinion. But when I scan above and below the pasages that describe the particular humiliations, I find something. Here I will just cite two passages from Bhagavatpurana. IMO, the whole Banasura story will not make any sense if the full of Bhagavatam is not studied, and especially the history of humiliation of banasura (and Lord Shiva as if). But was this not a teaching?

    Bhagavatam Canto Ten, Chapter 62
    4. Banasura was intoxicated with his strength. One day, when Lord Siva was standing beside him, Banasura touched the lord’s lotus feet with his helmet, which shone like the sun, and spoke to him as follows.
    5. [Banasura said:] O Lord Mahadeva, I bow down to you, the spiritual master and controller of the worlds. You are like the heavenly tree that fulfills the desires of those whose desires are unfulfilled.
    6. These one thousand arms you bestowed upon me have become merely a heavy burden. Besides you, I find no one in the three worlds worthy to fight.
    7. Eager to fight with the elephants who rule the directions, O primeval lord, I went forth, pulverizing mountains with my arms, which were itching for battle. But even those great elephants fled in fear.
    8. Hearing this, Lord Siva became angry and replied, "Your flag will be broken, fool, when you have done battle with one who is my equal. That fight will vanquish your conceit."
    The same is true of all vanquished devotees of Lord. Their egos were destroyed, and by none else but by Vishnu. How fortunate these vanquished villains would have been.


    I think, Lord Shiva is inscrutable -- even to .......... Lord Vishnu, BrahmA, and Mahendra.


    Bhagavatam Canto 8 Chapter 7
    19. O King, when that uncontrollable poison was forcefully spreading up and down in all directions, all the demigods, along with the Lord Himself, approached Lord Siva [Sadasiva]. Feeling unsheltered and very much afraid, they sought shelter of him.

    20. The demigods observed Lord Siva sitting on the summit of Kailasa Hill with his wife, Bhavani, for the auspicious development of the three worlds. He was being worshiped by great saintly persons desiring liberation. The demigods offered him their obeisances and prayers with great respect.
    ---
    23. O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.
    ---
    25. O lord, you are the original source of Vedic literature. You are the original cause of material creation, the life force, the senses, the five elements, the three modes and the mahat-tattva. You are eternal time, determination and the two religious systems called truth [satya] and truthfulness [rta]. You are the shelter of the syllable om, which consists of three letters a-u-m.
    ---
    31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman effulgence is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.
    ---
    33. Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Uma, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities.
    As per above, IMO, Lord Shiva should never be judged. The purest Purana declares that even Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra do not comprehend Him and that the shameless are those who try to judge the play of Parameshwara. Lord Shiva, whom scriptures describe as one without a second shiva atman, is also said to be directly situated in every soul as bhutatma (Soma).

    This Lord, IMO, is not to be worshipped for preservation of ego.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 10 August 2010 at 09:43 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  9. #9

    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    I am very much hurt with such people who unknowingly utter abusive sentences .
    The only maheshwar has been mentioned in Vedas and I suppose that rishis have seen Rudra , trayambakam neelgreeva shitkantha green hairs yellowish body with charmamberam , is in Vishnu form in jeeva , the welfare form as shiva with golden body and no serpents no mundmals etc. Also the god is beyond all vernas .Pl feel a common sense of knowledge .
    Namo hiranyabahve [ golden body for shiva ] ,namo nishadebhyah , punjishthebhyah ,shwanibhyah , girishayay chayaj
    I worship rudra who is in Vishnu form in all living entities including shudras nishads kirats kols .
    Sovratyen rudram kanthadhyam rudrasyantah parshvyam mahadevasyayaj
    Always worship rudra [ shiva form ] with noble conduct sweet singing and with clear heart .

  10. #10

    Re: Is Shiva the Right Deity to Worship?

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    As per above, IMO, Lord Shiva should never be judged. The purest Purana declares that even Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra do not comprehend Him and that the shameless are those who try to judge the play of Parameshwara. Lord Shiva, whom scriptures describe as one without a second shiva atman, is also said to be directly situated in every soul as bhutatma (Soma).

    This Lord, IMO, is not to be worshipped for preservation of ego.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Namaste Atanu,

    Thank you for quoting Bhagavatam 8th Canto Chap 7.

    From that same source http://srimadbhagavatam.com/8/7/21/en we have the following...

    The prajāpatis said: O greatest of all demigods, Mahādeva, Supersoul of all living entities and cause of their happiness and prosperity, we have come to the shelter of your lotus feet. Now please save us from this fiery poison, which is spreading all over the three worlds.

    PURPORT
    Since Lord Śiva is in charge of annihilation, why should he be approached for protection, which is given by Lord Viṣṇu? Lord Brahmā creates, and Lord Śiva annihilates, but both Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva are incarnations of Lord Viṣṇu and are known as śaktyāveśa-avatāras. They are endowed with a special power like that of Lord Viṣṇu, who is actually all-pervading in their activities. Therefore whenever prayers for protection are offered to Lord Śiva, actually Lord Viṣṇu is indicated, for otherwise Lord Śiva is meant for destruction. Lord Śiva is one of the īśvaras, or the controllers known as śaktyāveśa-avatāras. Therefore he can be addressed as having the qualities of Lord Viṣṇu.
    I could have a much easier time doubting the purport to this verse if someone could quote shastra saying that Lord Shiva's form is eternal sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Otherwise since the term śaktyāveśa-avatāra means "specifically empowered jiva-tattva incarnation of God", we aren't given the sense that Shiva's form and characteristics are eternal. Saktyāveśa-avatāras perform universal functions for the time being then go back to God.

    Once more, there is an Advaitic preponderance that suggests that all forms of God are equal and temporary manifestations that lead to something higher (like a scaffold as Ramakrishna would say). So you can see one reason why a Vaisnava will never agree that Shiva is equal in power and opulence to Krishna or Vishnu.

    Much of the argument then, of Vishnu vs. Shiva in these forums is completely like apples vs. oranges. The two groups are directed towards two distinctly different ideas of the ultimate reality - one towards entrance in an abode of and service to a personal God, and the other towards liberation and absorption in nirguna brahman.

    Yet some Shaivites may seek a more personal destination.
    So I copied this from the old India Divine, for anyone who is interested..

    The quote below, from Srila Prabhupada's purport to SB 1.3.28 confirms
    that one can become an eternal associate of God in Mahesa-dhama. That
    this position is not in maha-maya is also confirmed. One of the quotes
    below says that one can be elevated from Sada-siva-loka to
    Vaikuntha-loka, but this does not contradict the possibility to remain
    as an associate of Lord Siva in his abode eternally.

    Quotes:
    -------
    A living being can become godly by developing the
    seventy-eight-percent transcendental attributes in fullness, but he
    can never become a God like Siva, Visnu or Krsna. He can become a
    Brahma in due course. The godly living beings who are all residents of
    the planets in the spiritual sky are eternal associates of God in
    different spiritual planets called Hari-dhama and Mahesa-dhama. (SB
    1.3.28 purp)

    Next above Devi-dhama is located Siva-dhama one portion of which,
    called Mahakala-dhama, is enveloped in darkness; interpenetrating this
    portion of Siva-dhama there shines the Sadasivaloka, full of great
    light. (Bs 5.43 purp)


    There is also a planet called Sivaloka, or Sadasivaloka, which is
    situated in a marginal position between the spiritual and material
    worlds. If, after being situated in Brahmaloka, one becomes more
    qualified, he is promoted to Sadasivaloka. Similarly, when one becomes
    even more qualified, he can attain the Vaikunthalokas. (SB 4.24.29
    purp)

    In the Vayu Purana there is a description of Sadasiva in one of the
    Vaikuntha planets. That Sadasiva is a direct expansion of Lord Krsna’s
    form for pastimes. It is said that Sadasiva (Lord Sambhu) is an
    expansion from the Sadasiva in the Vaikuntha planets (Lord Visnu) and
    that his consort, Mahamaya, is an expansion of Ramadevi, or Laksmi.
    (Adi 6.79 purp)
    Last edited by Rasa1976; 10 August 2010 at 09:07 PM.

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