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Thread: Choosing Meditation times...

  1. #11
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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee
    Sandhi Muhurta

    Some might have noticed that when the mind goes to grasp a high flying bird, for a fraction of a second till the mind says "I see it", there is delight. A lightness indescribable.

    Some might have also noticed that in the minute interval between two thoughts there is a moment of bliss. A lightness indescribable.

    When a desire is fulfilled and the mind is devoid of desire, for a minute period, there is bliss. A lightness indescribable.
    Namaste Atanu Banerjee,
    What you have offered is very profound... you have captured the the 'pressing of the soma' - the experience of delight the rishi's sing in the ved. Very nice!
    Each action allows this delight to be released... some notice some not. Yet this is the bliss ( I call delight) the 'realized ones' talk of in their daity lifes. There is no ego/individualiity that gets in the way, and this delight is experienced regularly. They also say they are not the authors of this ( I do nothing) and the delight/soma is an offering to the deva's/ Indra - Divine Mind.

    thank you for your examples... wonderful!
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Namaste Atanu Banerjee,
    What you have offered is very profound... you have captured the the 'pressing of the soma' - the experience of delight the rishi's sing in the ved. Very nice!
    Each action allows this delight to be released... some notice some not. Yet this is the bliss ( I call delight) the 'realized ones' talk of in their daity lifes. There is no ego/individualiity that gets in the way, and this delight is experienced regularly. They also say they are not the authors of this ( I do nothing) and the delight/soma is an offering to the deva's/ Indra - Divine Mind.

    thank you for your examples... wonderful!

    Thanks for the appreciation.

    Pray those fleeting partitioned delight show its timeless indivisible true nature. Let soma swell.


    Om

  3. #13
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    Re: Calculating Sandhya times...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    It is very traditional to meditate AM and PM - where does this come from? This is based upon 'gaps' in the day called Sandhya. This 'Sandhya' is considered a junction point in time, and upasana, in one form is meditation.

    Meditation times were discussed above, that is Sandhya upasana. We know these times to be throughout the day, yet what times are they specifically?
    • Morning is Brahma Muhurta Sandhya
    • Noon for Vishnu Sandhya
    • Sunset called Mahesha Sandhya
    • Midnight called Kali or Turiya Sandhya
    Lets take a look at 3 methods one can consider to calculate these times.


    FYI Info
    First, a muhurta is equal to 48 minutes - or 2 ghatika¹ each of 24 min.
    Sandhya is a 'gap' period, a junction point.
    We will also add a new Sandhya that is called Abhijit Muhurta . It is based upon the 28th Nakshatra called Abhijit, and is recognized daily, at mid day and at mid-night. This muhurta is considered quite favorable.
    You will see this in the 3rd option shown below.

    Brahma Muhurta is considered the time from ~ 4 AM to Sunrise. Brahma Muhurta officially starts at the 25th nadiya and runs to sunrise… as of today, the nadiya division system of the day is something I am still researching… so for now we will just stick with 4 AM (&#177. If any one of our esteemed HDF members has knowledge on this matter I am eager to hear your assessment on nadiya divisions of the day.

    Option 1: The quick method - No thinking required
    Morning , Noon or Mid-day, Evening and Midnight Sandhya approximations can be as easy as 4 AM to 6 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 12 mid-night. This is fast, and an approximation to figure out the best starting times for sadhana.

    Option 2: Adding in Muhurta & Ghati to Consider Sandhya - Directionally correct
    We take the same times as above and split the time of 1 ghati¹ on each side, that is:
    4 AM to 6:00 AM { we keep the Brahma Muhurta time the same } , 11:36 AM to 12:24 PM, 5:36 PM to 6:24 PM , 11:36 PM to 12:24 AM.

    Option 3: Looking at the existing sun rise, mid day, evening and Mid night times + Abhijit Muhurta : Exact Calculation
    These times are based upon actuals and will change daily ~ 1min or so as the sun begins increasing in daylight i.e. starting from the winter solstice (~ 20th of December); or decreasing in daylight starting at the summer solstice (~ June 20th). Note to self - these two dates are perfect sandhya/gaps to consider for sadhana.

    Lets use Varanisi, India, Sunday the 18th of November 2007 for our example.
    Sunrise: 6:20 AM
    Sunset: 17:05 [ 5:05 PM]

    Brahma Muhurta runs from ~4 AM to 6:20 AM
    Mid day is a calculation: Sunset - Sunrise = total daylight hours (TDH).
    TDH/ 2 = X factor
    To get to the mid day we add X factor to the sunrise time to get mid-day time.
    To Get Abhijit Muhurta we take mid-day time and split it in two: subtract one ghati on one side and add one ghati to the other. Lets try it:
    Sunset - Sunrise = total daylight hours (TDH) = 17:05 - 6:20 = 10:45 TDH. 10:45 / 2 = 5:22:30 hours this is our X factor. Sunrise or 6:20 AM + 5:22:30 ( our X factor) = 11:42:30 ( roughly noon)

    Now to get Abhijit Muhurta we subtract 24 min from 11:42:30 and get 11:18:30 (AM) and we add 24 min to 11:42:30 and get 12:06:30 [12:06:30 PM]. This is the sandhya time for this day: 11:18:30 AM to 12:06:30 PM.

    Evening is 17:05 [5:05 PM]. We want the twilight time, where the sun has not set as yet. So we subtract take one muhurta (48 min) from this sunset time and we get 16:17 [or 4:17PM] a start time for for sandhya.
    We do not split the time here on each side of sunset - if we did the sun would have gone down already and night has fallen, the gap or sandhya has passed.

    Midnight requires a calculation. That is sunset we know as 17:05 [5:05 PM]. Yet the night or darkness lasts until sunrise of the next day, the 19th of November which is at 6:21AM. To calculate the total darkness time we find out how much 'darkness' there is from sun set to sunrise, which = 13:16 hrs of darkness.

    The calculation is not subtraction as this is only used for the SAME day calculations. We are going forward in time. So the elapsed hours from 17:05 or 5:05 PM going to 5:05 AM the next day, 12 hours. Then we go to sunrise of 6:21AM and that is now a 'same day calculation' so 6:21 - 5:05 = 1:16. We have the 12 hrs elapsed time + 1:16 hrs = 13:16 hrs. of darkness. Take 1/2 of the 13:16 hrs or 6:38 hrs, add this to sun set or 17:05 and we get 17:05 + 6:38 = 23.43 [11:43PM].

    Next we split this time of 24 mins on each side to get Abhijit Muhurta. Or 11:19 PM and 12:07 AM on the 19th, the next day. Sandya then runs from 11:19 PM to 12:07 AM.

    Note that Option 1 and Option 2 is for any time of the year… just a rule of thumb. Option 3 requires some calculations. Yet the times changes for additional days are small and the initial calculations can be used for a few weeks and still be within the Sandya period.

    Let take a look and see if this makes sense:
    1. Sunday the 18th of November 2007.
    Sunrise: 6:20 AM Sunset: 17:05 PM [ 5:05 PM]
    2. Lets go out one week to 27th of November, 2007
    Sunrise: 6:27 AM Sunset: 17:03 PM [ 5:03 PM]
    3. One more week
    Sunrise: 6:33 AM Sunset: 17:03 PM [ 5:03 PM]

    Note the day is getting shorter as we approach the winter solstice. Using your original calculations of 18th of November gives you sandhya times for ~ 3 weeks. This infers you do not have to get crazy over the calculations, and maybe do it once a month. Once you see the trends , you then know to just a few minutes along the way.

    Just a thought and putting some numbers and times behind this sandhya.


    1. One ghati = 24 min. One ghati = 1/60th of the day. 1/60th = .016667 X 24 hours = 0.40 hrs = .40 X 60 minutes = 24 minutes= in ghati.


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 18 November 2007 at 10:26 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Interesting.. The scriptures were written for and at times along the equator. At one time I was supposed to be disciplining myself to meditate at dawn, but here on the 54th latitude north, dawn changes seasonally by about an 6 hour swing, ranging from very early like 3:30 AM to 9:30 AM. I once asked a swami about people who lived even further north like above the Arctic circle, where daylight will be on for 3 months, and night will last 3 months. His response was "no Hindu in their right mind would live up there." In other words, take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. Aum Namasivaya

  5. #15
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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Interesting.. The scriptures were written for and at times along the equator. At one time I was supposed to be disciplining myself to meditate at dawn, but here on the 54th latitude north, dawn changes seasonally by about an 6 hour swing, ranging from very early like 3:30 AM to 9:30 AM. I once asked a swami about people who lived even further north like above the Arctic circle, where daylight will be on for 3 months, and night will last 3 months. His response was "no Hindu in their right mind would live up there." In other words, take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. Aum Namasivaya

    Namste EM,
    a most excellent point...that is why option 3 ( from the post) will work perfectly at the 54th lat.

    re: living at the north pole makes one a macroscian (muh-KROSH-i-uhn) a noun [From Greek macros (long) + skia (shadow)];

    • One casting a long shadow.
    • One who inhabits polar regions.
    just longer meditation times and longer gaps ( in the winter that is!)....

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 29 November 2009 at 06:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Post Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Namaste,

    The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is the dawn, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise. And assuming sunrise at 6 AM, the brAhmamuhUrta begins at 4:24 AM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste,

    The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is “the dawn”, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise. And assuming sunrise at 6 AM, the brAhmamuhUrta begins at 4:24 AM.


    Namaste sarabhanga,
    what you say is true... I have the audit trail on the 48 min. 1 muhurta = 48 min ( also = 2 ghatiki). I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?

    My only audit trail I have for Brahma muhurta is the following:
    1 hr 36 min = 96 min
    96 min / 1 ghati or 24 min = 4 ghati. If this is true, then any Brahma muhurta starting time is sunrise -minus 4 ghati. What I am not sure of is the definition of Brahma muhurta given as the '25th nadiya and runs to sunrise' - I have been trying to check if the 4 ghatika before sunrise = the 25th nadiya. I have yet to find the metric behind nadiya. [This is based upon 21,600 breaths in a day and not sure how they, the nadi Jyotishi's get to nadiya units] - Any help is welcomed.

    Last - it's very interesting ( to me) that the unit of time is based upon 1/60th of the day :
    1/60th =.0166666
    .0166666 X 24 hrs/day = .40 hrs
    .40 hrs x 60 min/hr = 1 ghati = 24 min.
    2 ghati = 1 muhurta of 48 min.
    1 hora ( 1 hr) = 2.5 ghati
    1 day and 1 night = ahoratra = 30 muhurta ( 30 x 40 min = 24 hrs)

    Why did the ancients pick 1/60th ? If I was there I would have voted for 1/10th as it makes the math easier ! As we look into this, it is based upon samvastsara, or one cycle of 60 years. What is this 60 years all about? It is when the 2 biggest grahas , Guru and Sani meet in Mesha (Aries) the first house of Bha Chakra.

    Just a this is the common denominator for yugas , it is the denominator for calculating times of the day... so the risi's used the scale of 60 for going up ( in yugas) and down in times & fractions of the day.

    The last time Guru and Sani came together for this 60 years cycle was May 1999 [ some suggest March] and will retun in 2059.


    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18
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    Talking Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Namaste Yajvan,

    I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?
    No audit is required ~ the brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.

    The turya muhUrta (after midnight) strikes after 3:12 AM, and this “fifth hour” (until after 4 AM, when the pre-dawn brAhmamuhUrta begins) is particularly auspicious for meditation.

    nADikA is just another name for ghaTikA (i.e. 1/60th of an ahorAtra) ~ and “from the 25th nADikA” is likely to be from the 25th ghaTikA after sunset. And, given a 6 PM sunset, that would be after 4 AM.

    You can count 25 bells after sunset, or predict 4 bells before sunrise, and the result is much the same! Or simply set your alarm for somewhere between 4:00 and 4:30 AM !!

    Since 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, a sexagesimal (base 60) numbering system facilitates the manipulation of a large range of fractions. Such a system was used in ancient Sumer from around 3,200 BC; and it has proved to be the most convenient method for reckoning circles and cyclic phenomena.

    The orbital period of Jupiter is close to 12 years (11.6 years), and that of Saturn is almost 30 years (29.46 years), so that the interval between their conjunctions, in the same area of the zodiac, is about 60 years.

  9. #19
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    Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    No audit is required ~ the brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.

    .

    Namaste sarabhanga,

    Let me ask another way... my term of 'audit trail' did not hit the mark.
    I agree that brahma-muhurta is 4 gatika before rise. My question was posed to consider, why not 3 or 2? ( I would have picked 1 muhurta).

    I also can 'feel' the whoosh that occurs about this time... not right at the start of brahma muhurta but once it is settled in, closer to 1 or 2 gatika that has passed. I can hear nature getting started, the birds start their daily chirping, etc. all that, and there is a noticeable change in me, one feels different. Perhaps this is how it has been determined - by observation & experience. The observer then says - this time usually happens 4 gatika before sunrise.


    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 November 2007 at 05:06 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20
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    Post Re: Choosing Meditation times...

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Quote Originally Posted by Yajvan

    I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarabhanga

    The brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yajvan

    I have been trying to check if the 4 ghatika before sunrise = the 25th nadiya. I have yet to find the metric behind nadiya. [This is based upon 21,600 breaths in a day and not sure how they, the nadi Jyotishi's get to nadiya units] - Any help is welcomed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarabhanga

    nADikA is just another name for ghaTikA (i.e. 1/60th of an ahorAtra) ~ and from the 25th nADikA is likely to be from the 25th ghaTikA after sunset.
    I am not familiar with the term nadiya, but after the 25th nADikA (= ghaTikA) from sunset is equivalent to the traditional from the 4th ghaTikA before sunrise ~ providing a standard metric for nadiya (as nADikA, which is half a muhUrta).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yajvan

    I agree that brahma-muhurta is 4 gatika before rise. My question was posed to consider, why not 3 or 2? ( I would have picked 1 muhurta).
    The dawn has always consisted of four ghaTikA (= two muhUrta), and the crack of dawn, the brAhmamuhUrta, is its first moment. This first (pre-dawn) muhUrta is for waking and preparation; while the second dawn muhUrta, the ultimate ghANTika muhUrta, is for worship and praise (culminating in the actual sunrise).

    Why does the brAhmamuhUrta begin two muhUrta before sunrise and not one and a half muhUrta before sunrise? The answer should be obvious!

    One muhUrtau is 96 minutes, and one muhUrta is a ghaTike, and one ghaTikA is a quarter of one muhUrtau.

    Perhaps one could divide the dawn muhUrtau with its own sunrise, distinguishing the pre-dawn muhUrta (the 48 minutes before sunrise) and the post-dawn muhUrta (the 48 minutes after sunrise) ~ and perhaps that would be helpful for astrology, but the traditional practice in daily routine has always been as described.

    The penultimate (pre-dawn dark) muhUrta is for waking and quiet preparation; while the ultimate (dawn light) muhUrta is for worship and active praise, culminating in the actual sunrise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarabhanga

    The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is the dawn, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise.

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