Pre-Marital Sex

[Sudarshan]

Dear Sudarshan,

I feel that your anger has subsided.

Jnanin does not feel anything in Turiya. But has full awareness with Turiya consciousness in Turiyatita.

All gods are also said to be in Turiyatita, in full yoga with Self and omniscient. Lord Krishna says that those who torture their body give me pain (not exact translation). How so? Is He not a jnanin? Rama is known to have cried on loss of Sita. Is He not the Supreme God?

Else, what is the use of Turiya? --- if one were to become like a stone? The purpose is not to become unconscious but to become a master of the roaming mind, knowing that Turiya is the sustainer in all states. Again this may depend on destiny as per Niyati, a Jnani may be continuosly in Turiya and another may be frolicking. Jnani is one, who simply has lost the attachment to body, but surely has not lost the Pragnya.


Om

These maybe your personal opinions but not backed up by any authority -if so you are free to show citations from Shankara or others. Advaita categorically holds Turiya as NB, and rest as mithyA. Jagat is just like a snake superimposed on a rope due to imagination. You cannot claim to see the snake and the rope, without contradicting your own thesis. Any one claiming so is under a big illusion himself.

Yes, these are views of some modern advaitins not conversant with classical Advaita. They end up saying a lot of things, and it is very easy to show that the above hypothesis is that of VA and not Advaita. Turiya and Prajna being eternal implies dualty is always present.

You have already contradicting yourself heavily when you said - "All gods are also said to be in Turiyatita, in full yoga with Self and omniscient. ". Where is the concept of many gods in Turiyatita, which is mere oneness and undifferentiated consciousness? Do these gods know each other, if they are one and the same why call them "many gods"?

[atanu]

------
You have already contradicting yourself heavily when you said - "All gods are also said to be in Turiyatita, in full yoga with Self and omniscient. ". Where is the concept of many gods in Turiyatita, which is mere oneness and undifferentiated consciousness? Do these gods know each other, if they are one and the same why call them "many gods"?

A lamp and a table are both forms of consciousness. In waking state one does not go and attempt to obtain light from a table.

If knowledge of Self (Advaita) makes one forget this then woe to such knowledge. And if Upanishads were teaching this and if Shankara was teaching this then ------- ha ha. Yes in Samadhi, wherein the knowledge is obtained nothing is known.

But that is not a bondage. It is about freedom.


Please do not form your own opinions. Do not try to understand Advaita by reading its critiques. If you are sincere, start by reading Tripura Rahasya or Yoga Vashista. There is no difference in VA and Advaita, except that Advaita holds that for mukti the Advaita knowledge (knowledge of the Self) is essential. VA seems to differ.

If Self has to be known one cannot remain different from it. But one established in Self has no more localised ego, so why should the Self be bound any more? It is ever liberated, causing no change in the Turiya, which is changeless.

Advaita is about knowledge of the Self and the knowledge that it is na lipayate. About freedom.


Om Namah Shivayya

[atanu]

----- Turiya and Prajna being eternal implies dualty is always present.

-----

Why not? Like you are not one being. Your leg is one and your arm another?

Is it like that?

Om Namah Shivayya

[Sudarshan]

Why not? Like you are not one being. Your leg is one and your arm another?

Is it like that?

Om Namah Shivayya

ooh, you did not understand that Prajna is vyavahAra and Turiya is paramArta. If vyavahAra is eternal, it is unsublatable, and breaks down the fundamental positions of Advaita. Also, it means that Advaita will now support nitya samsArins ( eternally damned souls in vyavahAra), so Advaita becomes exactly Dvaita.

[Sudarshan]

Please do not form your own opinions. Do not try to understand Advaita by reading its critiques. If you are sincere, start by reading Tripura Rahasya or Yoga Vashista. There is no difference in VA and Advaita, except that Advaita holds that for mukti the Advaita knowledge (knowledge of the Self) is essential. VA seems to differ.

None of these texts are authority by any breadth of imagination. Who has used and referred to them? I read Advaita directly from Shankaracharya, and I have all his original works. You think he did not know Advaita?

Knowledge of the Atman is necessary in any system. Atman, however is not the Self( which is greatly similar to Atma though), but a superior entity. Self Realization is considered as an inferior stage in VA. Self is the real "I" in Atanu ( which suffers and feels pain here, which is not Atma), and Atma is God, the ever free entity. The relation between Self and Atma must be known to be liberated, which needs requiring to know the self and God.

[atanu]

----
Knowledge of the Atman is necessary in any system. Atman, however is not the Self( which is greatly similar to Atma though), -----.

Since title of the thread is a misnomer I have moved elsewhere.

However, I am a bit surprised since Self is not there in our scripture, only Atma is there. We just use Self for Atma, which has to be known!


Regards

[Atman]

[quote=Sudarshan;8321]Activities like masturbation, pre marital sex, prostitution, smoking, drugs etc are not sins, because they do not hurt others. These are addictions which must be given up if one aspires for spiritual growth.

Masturbation is considered a 'vice', or sexual sin, read up on it at celibacy.info, and the link with the original garden of eden.