andhaḿ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ
~ Isha Upanishad 12
Banned
andhaḿ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ
~ Isha Upanishad 12
Member
I think you have written the second line wrongly. Is your 'sambhūtim equal to asambhūtim?Originally Posted by Kumar_Das
Om Namah Shivaya
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Member
Elsewhere it has been said
sambhutim=vaykta=manifest bhuta
asambhutim=avaykta=unmanifest prakriti
akshara avaykta=avyayam= Imperishable unmanifest=Immutable Atman=Immortal
Om Namah Shivaya
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Vedic Seeker
To me, what's being said is that taking either the Impersonal or the Personal aspects as being the One True Truth Supreme is incorrect, though trying to say that the Personal aspect is the Supreme Absolute Only and no other could possibly be correct is worse. That's what's trying to be conveyed IMO.
If you read the 14th verse, it basically states that the best understanding is the one that realizes that both the Personal and Impersonal are True.
etad vai tat
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté atanu
As you mention, asaṁbhūti is what is offered in the 12th śloka i.e. ' non-existence ' .
HDF had a substantial conversation on the īśāvāsya upaniṣad back in October of 2009.
For those curious on this subject here is the HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4677
praṇām
यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
Member
Namaste Riverwolf
Neither the sambhutim (the world of creator bramA) nor the unmanifest (the ground of Pragnya-deep sleep) are true of their own.
I am impelled to repeat:
1. sambhutim=vaykta=manifest bhuta= equates to the dream and waking worlds
2. asambhutim=avaykta=unmanifest prakriti= equates to the deep sleep world
3.akshara avaykta=avyayam= Imperishable unmanifest=Immutable Atman=Immortal= equaltes to Shiva Atman, the Self
By worship of sambhutim alone -- the universe of Hiranygarbha (the world of creator BrahmA) one enters into darkness.
By worship of asambhutim alone -- the unmanifest moolaprakriti (the ground of deep sleep, Pragnya, the nature of Self) one enters into greater darkness.
But, He who knows both the Unmanifested (moola prakriti - nature of Self) and the destructible (Hiranyagarbha) together, transcends death by the (worship of) the destructible and attains IMMORTALITY by the (worship of ) the Unmanifested.
---------------------
The ultimate aim is to attain the akshara avyakta or avyayam or the Immortal Self -- which cannot be worshipped.
Om Namah Shivaya
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
etad vai tat
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
I wrote the following,
As you mention, asaṁbhūti is what is offered in the 12th śloka i.e. ' non-existence '.
This refers to the 12th śloka written below.
andhaḿ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate |
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ ||
Please note that kumar_das wrote the śloka correctly in post 1 above.
Note in the line 'ye 'sambhūtim upāsate' the proper rules of saṃskṛt have been applied. Avagraha ( holding away) is applied in this verse i.e. the 'a' is held back ( as I look at the actual saṃskṛt script) , and not sounded.
It is shown in transliteration using the apostrophe , as shown - ye 'sambhūtim and the 'a' as mentioned is not sounded. The elision ( the omission of a vowel or consonent) is correct. We see this as a symbol in the acual śloka - yet I cannot show you this symbol on this screen.
Also note in the 12th passage of the īśāvāsya upaniṣad shown above , I added the symbols virāma and pūrṇavirāma. That is, the vertical bars. 1 vertical bar is virāma and 2 vertical bars is pūrṇavirāma. They inform the reader of the half-way point | and the end of the stanza || . We can consider them punctuation marks of saṃskṛt.
Thought that was worth mentioning.
praṇām
यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
Member
Namaste yajvanji
Thank you for your guidance. I expected Kumar to answer this. I had asked Kumar "Is your 'sambhūtim equal to asambhūtim?" Since I do not know that asat can be written as: ye 'sat.
As usual, I hold that the meaning must be known. The transliteration rules are impossible for me and many others, who actually know the words and their meanings. But Sarabhanga would show that on account of transliteration rule I was wrong.That does not mean that I imply that following a standard convention of transliteration and the actual rules of grammar can be ignored. I do not (did not) know that asat can be written as: ye 'sat.
The itx convention writes the verse as below:
andhaM tamaH pravishanti ye.asambhuutimupaasate .
tato bhuuya iva te tamo ya u sambhuutyaa{\m+} rataaH .. 12..
The crux is that the words that are contrasted in this Isha verse are asambhutim and sambhutim.
---------------
But, IMO, the main issue is the original question: Impersonal Absolute is wrong? Isha Upanishad does not say so, at all. That is discussed in the post:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...97&postcount=6
Om Namah Shivaya
Last edited by atanu; 15 August 2010 at 01:36 AM.
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Re: Impersonal Absolute is wrong?
andhaḿ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate |
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ ||
Translation:-Into a blind darkness they enter who follow after the Non-Birth,Birth alone.
they as if into a greater darkness who devote themselves to the
Yes its write,who belive there is no birth after death they enter the darkness,and though who belived that there is only one birth or life enter more darkness.
Where is the misconcept?
sambhuticca vinasacca yastadvedobhayam saha,vinasena mrtyum tirtva sambhutya'mrtamasnute.
Translation:-
He who knows That as both in one, the Birth and the dissolutionenjoys Immortality.
of Birth, by the dissolution crosses beyond death and by the Birth
That means who knows the cycle of death and birth and know how to free from it enjoy immortiality.In that connection I want to recite another sukta of Isha upanishad
yastu sarvani bhutÀni ÀtmanyevÀnupasyati,sarvabhutesu cÀtmÀnam tato na vijugupsate.
Translation-
But he who sees everywhere the Self in all existences and allexistences in the Self, shrinks not thereafter from aught.
Thanks.
Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya puram evavasisyate
Om Santih! Santih! Santih
That is Full; this is full. From the Full does the Full proceed. After the coming of the Full from the full, the Full alone remains
Om. Peace! Peace! Peace!
New Member
That is really an interesting discussion . My submission is….
It is Yesambhutimupaste . [ e +asambhutim ] , they are surrounded by darkness of ignorance who believe in destruction , divide and rule or have their power to finish others .
On the contrary they also are ignorant who are always in the will of reinstating their powers with the fear of others .
The spiritual way….Attain the Immortality [ with sambhuti ] , not avoiding but by overcoming [with asambhuti ] the fear of death …11/40 yaj.
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