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Thread: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

  1. #11
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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté snip,

    Quote Originally Posted by Snip View Post
    It is the fact I am seeing that there appears to be difference (based on the vantage point adopted) which makes me act to raise this topic for consideration. I would be pleased to focus on kaśmir śaivism specifically.

    There is more clarity from your etymology of māyā. If there are limitations to māyā then it would imply the limits can be known and overcome or managed. As the play and display of śakti appears in awareness, then liberation comes from having no attachment to act, yet seeing action appear in this display. One might ask how one can not feel obliged to act in their own interest. There is a certain amount of passivity if the awareness of śakti is taken as Self. Would you agree that the passivity (or awareness of the restraint) gives way to what the guru’s call “liberation”; in that the śakti is no other than our own undivided consciousness in play?

    If so then can we safely confirm that “we” act for ourselves through śakti and so action is already in process as it should be.

    However by taking this vantage point we are at once determined (by the boundaries) as consciousness, to witness our physical play whether we engage or not. Freewill is simply an illusion.

    Is there another, less fatalistic vantage point with śakti (of kaśmir śaivism)?
    I think your questions are excellent and will bring out more knowledge. This māyā is 'as if' there are limitations. That is the illusion people talk about. It is still the Infinite, playing in the finite.

    And Dearest śakti is the energy behind this 'play' yet is no different then śiva. We cannot separate the two. That would be like separating light from flame, or wet from water. We do this so one can appreciate the forms, tattva of the Supreme.

    You mention the following,
    There is a certain amount of passivity if the awareness of śakti is taken as Self
    We need to better understand this. In kaśmir śaivism it is said by bhairava that śakti is the mouth ( the entry way) to śiva. That is,
    lively awareness that is rested and one-pointed ( uninterrupted awareness) ; If it is passive , then it is brilliantly passive, aware in itself vs. a dull passiveness. Now again, this is the entry point, yes.

    You mention
    If so then can we safely confirm that “we” act for ourselves through śakti and so action is already in process as it should be.
    I can see how one can come to this conclusion. In ignorance we think we are the actor, in liberation we find that the Supreme is , in the final analysis, doing all. Yet before this big ahhh ha! realization , there is much that happens in between. It is śakti ( the extension of the Supreme) that does the actions. Yet we have choices . Many think if śakti is doing the 'doing' then we have no choice.

    Lets say I get into an elevator - all the steps, the looking, the locomotion to get me to that elevator cannot be done without that energy , yes? I choose to go to the 10th floor. The elevator moves - all the electrons, cables, balancing mechanisms, all the laws of nature are śakti. We could not move one inch without this energy , yes?

    So here is the missing link ( me thinks) to this conversation - and I look to Kṛṣṇa for his wise words. Kṛṣṇa says the following in the Bhāgavad gītā (chapter 2, 47th śloka)

    karmai evādhikāras te
    mā phalesu kadācana
    mā karma-phala-hetur bhūr
    mā te sago'stv akarmai

    This says, you certainly (eva) have ādhikāra (claim , right , privilege, control) of your (te or ti) karmai (of your actions) , but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu) .

    Just so there is no confusion - 'but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu)' clearly points that the individual cannot control the outcome. You do not have a choice on the level of success or failure that may result from that action that is initiated, yet you get to choose the action.

    So, we're in the elevator , we push '10th floor '. In all ~likelihood~ we will get there but it is not guaranteed. You have the privilege to select an action, but you are not guaranteed the outcome.

    The pickle is this - when we have mutiple moving parts in a conversation i.e. māyā, freedom of choice, śakti , Self, etc. We run the risk of too many ideas that may compete for a clear view of the truth. I am happy to pursue the path you wish, yet there is much to be said for 'simple is better' .


    So, then yajvan, what question would you ask? I would get a better appreciation of this śakti. It would be very rewarding to understand Her in Her own light. The best book I have read ( and re-read again and again ) is the parā-trīśikā vivaraa. If you wish just a snippet of this, consider this HDF string: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3758

    IMHO it is beyond brilliant... yet be aware this is not entry level wisdom that is found in this book.


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast snip

    Let me, if I may, revisit the following for a better appreciation of śakti:
    In kaśmir śaivism it is said by bhairava that śakti is the mouth ( the entry way) to śiva.
    We all know this aham meaning 'I'. - it is the expansion of the Divine into all of existence , so it is called called sṛṣṭi-bīja (emission or letting go i.e. creation + bīja or seed sound ).
    Is this not a grand notion , one sound expresses all of creation ? Let's look at this aham as it appears in the parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa as a+ha+m.

    • a denotes śiva ( more on why this is in a later post)
    • ha denotes śakti
    • m denotes nara ( us, all of objective existence); now you know we cannot just say 'm' so it is better voiced by 'ma' - this will make sense in a moment.
      Recall in an earlier post the 'ma' means measured out - this is when we were discussion māyā, yes? And we as beings or creation are measured out/ metered out.
      We have size, shape, all that - no different then a planet, electron, a solar system - all are 'metered out' with shape or sound & form (śabda or vā
      c + rūpa).
    This is how creation (emission - sṛṣṭi) comes into existence a --> ha --> m beginning with śiva's emission and ending in creation.

    Now lets look at the reverse (praveśa - entering into ) - ma--> ha-->a

    Note in the reverse praveśa, to enter into śiva it is done via 'ha' or śakti . We (ma) passes through 'ha' or śakti. This 'maha' is called saṃhāra-bīja .
    Saṃhāra means contraction, drawing in. So we say śakti is the mouth ( the entry way) to śiva. In both conditions i.e. sṛṣṭi and
    saṃhāra Divine śakti is praveśa , the entrance way, She delivers creation, She delivers 'ma' to śiva .

    This is why in kaśmir śaivism it is said śaivī mukhaṃ ihocyate - śakti is the mouth ( entrance to ) śiva.

    Yet one can ask - is this All of śakti ? Her full explanation as mukhaṃ ( mouth or entry) ? Absolutely not. She is that divine impulse of śiva.
    That is why She is devī which comes from div - to play, sport. This is Her śakti and this 'sport/play ' creation emerges.

    Yet we must remember śiva = śivā (or śivī , another way of saying devī) , śiva = śakti , bhairava = bhairavī

    prāṇam

    words

    rūpa - any outward appearance or phenomenon or color; form , shape , figure i.e. rūpeṇa in the form of ; rūpam- to assume a form
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    This touches upon the mantra I sing every day...it makes me so very happy. I sing Ahammmmahaaaa and it is so wonderful.

    Sending forth creation...retracting back creation...sending forth creation...retracting back creation.

    It's an ebb and flow sort of feeling...as the tide washes upon the shore.

    Such peace can be found in this truth. The Aham is a beautiful realm of this manifested creation...soundly set....but one day will return back to Shiva's loving arms. He will gather us up like a child gathers sea shells upon the shore.

    Until then we all dwell within His Wondrous Heart.<3

    I often wonder about when I was a baby in the womb...almost blind wrapped in my mother's abdomen...distorted sounds and light filtered to us in tiny amounts. Is this not also how the world is to many of us even now?

    Perhaps the Aham is like Sakti's womb...a glorious place for us to develop. Some still blinded by ignorance or desire...but will one day shed this protective womb to be born into a higher way of being.

    Just as we can remember how, as a child, we were cloaked in dellusions and ignorance... Maybe one day we will look down upon this developing being we once were and also see those similar things.

    I really truly love this conversation. It's the reason I was immediately drawn to the beautiful most wonderful ways of KS.

    Hari Om Namah Shivaya<3

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?


    Dear Yajvanji
    You have indeed gone to the root of my initial question in post 11 as I am looking for clarification on śakti as the outcome and was using the topic of māyā as my foundation for building that clarity initially. I am keen to understand śakti in Her own right. Your explanation of aham is eye opening, and I would like to know why "a" is śiva, if you would be so kind to explain, please?

    Regarding the verse from the Bhagavad Gita. As you also mention, I would question further "te karmaṇi" as this implies there is a you (te) who acts. I would add that this verse addresses those who see themselves as the actor, but once one knows that it is prarkiti that acts (or śakti if we are to keep our focus), then does this verse still apply? I feel it has served its purpose.

    I am with you with the example of energy behind the actions, such as an elevator. I would add to that that our thoughts too are energy and so thoughts are nothing less than this prarkiti. (I hesitate to use śakti in place of prarkiti, in want of clarity). So even "my" thoughts are that very Supreme being in play, witnessed by the Supreme for the Supreme; with this vision there is a certain amount of liberation. One is no longer so bound to the rat race of life with the fight for more, but still there seems to be no place for freewill unless one surrenders themselves utterly to the Supreme and faces life without expectation or desire. Does this mean like Bharata, we should go along with even our own sacrifice to Bhadrakali, knowing this to be the destiny of the body? (Srimad Bhagavata Sk.V Ch.9)

    Regarding parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa I will follow your lead and attempt to obtain a copy, hopefully this will allow me to add a freshly defined focus. Thank you!

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    dear snip,

    regarding 'aham' and 'maha please check out
    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=D...&f=falsea&#39;

    page 13, notes 3,

    regarding 'a' because its all pervasiveness or being first. as in mandukya-10.

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    namaste everyone.

    Yajvan has explained the concept of Reality very well in his post no.12 as the combined truth of Shiva, Shakti and mAyA, which is universally crystalized in the form of aham--I-ness. In other words, it is the transition of NirguNa Brahman from Shiva who is sthANu--motionless, through SaguNa Brahman as Shakti to the jagat--world, as mAyA, which is perceived as reality by the aham--I-ness.

    How identical--or different--are these three entities Shiva, Shakti and mAyA?

    • Shiva as NirguNa Brahman could not have become Ishvara as SaguNa Brahman without Shakti, which is why Shakti takes a half of his manifest rUpam--form, as ArdhanarIshvara, and withdraws herself to freeze into him when he is in the sthANu form of DakShiNAmUrti. Since there is no SaguNa Brahman without Shakti, our Gods we worship as the Ultimate Reality are paired with their consorts.

    • NirguNa Brahman is actionless and motionless, so it cannot create the world. But once it wishes to know itself better, its hidden power--Shakti, comes to the fore as Ishvara and it is she by her naTanam--dance, of lAsyam--artful and pleasing dance, in the form of LakShmI and SarasvatI, and tANDavam--dance of vigour and passion, in the form of DurgA and KALI, brings up the mAyA of the world.

    • So, mAyA is her crystallized forms of illusion that we see as objects of matter in the world. We know it very well that forms are anitya--transient, and yet in our state of aham--I-ness, we cannot see the illusion behind the transient reality of the world and seek to identify the Self with the aham--ego, and consider the forms as part and features of the Self.

    *****

    Another interpretation of mAyA is yA--who (which Goddess), does-mA--make a show, of the world which is not really there, hence the connection between paraAshakti and mAyA.

    • So long as we are under the influence of the avidyA--ignorance, of mAyA, we fail to see the Shakti behind it, so we adore and worship her with bhakti--devotion, to lift us from mAyA's influence.

    • mAyA is avidhyA--ignorance, of faulty identification with the world. Shakti is vidyA--the science of knowledge of Shivam--Brahman. mAyA are the puppets she creates in the show of the world. She is the puppeteer behind the scenes, the puppets she create and action of the show--everything essentially. samsAram--worldly life, and mukti--liberation are both only her actions.

    • As we as her bhaktas--devotees, become increasingly aware of her as the ParAshakti, she gives us glimpses of darshan of Shiva, of ViShNu, and KRShNa who represent the NirguNa Brahman behind her. This is why she is described as the mukham--mouth/face, and DevI--the sporting, shining Goddess, of Shiva, as Yajavan has pointed out.

    • It is she, parAshakti, as Shiva's consort, manifesting as DurgA-LakShmI-SarasvatI, makes a show of the reality of the mAyA--illusory, changing world. This is the reason parAshakti in all her three manifestations, has the epithet mahAmAyA:

    ‣ mahAmAya mahAsattva mahAshaktiH mahAratIH--LalitA sahasranAmam
    ‣ namastEstu MahAmAye shripIthe surapUjitE--MahAlakshmI aShTaka stotram
    ‣ SarasvatI mahAbhadra, mahAmAyA varaprada--SarasvatI stotram

    • This is the reason that 'DevI mahAtmyam' in a whole lot of shlokas, adores her, parAshakti, with the words 'namastasyai namastasyai namastasyai namo namaH'--saying one namaste for each TrimUrti.

    • The term DevI itself springs up from the root div--to shine, be bright, so she is the shining lamp placed between Brahman and the world. So long as Brahman is not aware of his shakti--power, it is inert. Once it starts knowing it, it becomes the light of DevI, and with that light creates the jagat--world.

    • She is known as BhagavatI, that is, one who has the bhagam; bhagam itself means aishvaryam, that which belongs to Ishvara, but only she as IshvarI is the Ishvara, so all that aishvaryam is only hers. The term bhagat comprises of six types of sampad--fullness:

    ‣ aishvaryam--sovereignity, her power of ruling over the world;
    ‣ dharma, her ruling over the world in dharma, not in tyranny;
    ‣ kIrti--fame, praise of her guNa-sampad--features of excellence as the ruler;

    ‣ dhanam--wealth, the whole creation with its forms is only her creation, and she is the life of all the beings in the forms;

    ‣ vairAgyam--freedom from desires; although she owns the world as her wealth, she does not enjoy ruling over it; instead she lets the physical laws and spiritual laws of karma rule over the world and stays as a witness;

    ‣ mokSham--the state of liberation. All her vairAgyam is only with the jaDa-prapancha--insentient universe. She has immense love for the chetana jIvas--sentient beings, of the universe. After all, they are all her children, only she in different forms, so she leads every sentient being up the curve of creation to mokSha.

    ‣ Love is born only if there is mind. Just as a fruit is reddened when it becomes ripe, the mind when matured becomes prema-maya--full of love.

    ‣ The term rAga indicates love and the hue of redness. The term rakta--reddened/red/blood, derives from rAga. In the absence of this blush of love, a person becomes virakta--unaffected, and virAga--without feeling.

    ‣ Therefore, she does not remain aloof in vairAgya, when the jIvas move towards or away from her (using the liberty of freewill she gave them), but becomes rAgamaya--full of love, karuNAmaya--full of compassion, and gives them her anugraham--divine favour, of discovering their source and moving towards it, and ultimately reaches them in mokSha.

    Such is her lIlA--sport, in the mAyA--show, of the world she created. She is the mohadAyinI--one who gives the illusion; she is the mokShadAyinI--one who leads to liberation. She is the mahAmAya as well as ParAshakti who has her source in Brahman.

    The term 'hrI' in Sanskrit means 'shyness'. Shakti due to her femininity never reveals herself as the source, she has such shyness. The bIja-mantra called devIpraNava of AdiShakti is 'hrIm', indicating the hrI--shyness, in her.

    When Brahman is adored as the PuruSha in the PuruShasUktam, it says, 'both hrI and shrI are your patnis--wives.' LakShmI as shrI expresses herself as the lakSha--marks/appearance, of the world, while Shakti as hrI hides herself behind in shyness. Both the Aitereya (1.3.14) and the BRhadAraNyaka UpaniShad (4.2.2) describe the Devas as 'parokSha priya hi devaH'--'one who is fond of hiding things in symbolism'.

    *****
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  7. #17
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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast&#233; snip (et.al)
     
    Regarding 'a' and 'ha' - one is svara (vowel) and the other is vya&#241;jana (consonant). It is said śiva owns all svara's and śakti owns vya&#241;jana.
    This 'a' is as rkpande suggests , it is first. First in devanāgarī script (saṃskṛt) , yet it too is first in mātṛkacakra. Mātṛkā+cakra =
    mātṛka&#185; coming from or belonging to Mother + cakra or wheel. So it is the saṃskṛt sounds that make up of svara (vowels) + vya&#241;jana (consonants).

    This 'a' is considered first, primary, fundamental to all, hence is considered śiva. It is considered anuttara , unsurpassable - nothing is beyond this.
    This 'a' as being first, is also the first sound we find in the ṛg ved ( 1.1.1) - agni I adore ...
    agnim īḷe purohitam
    yaj&#241;asys devam rtvijam |
    hotāram ratna dhātamam ||

    Note too that 'a' is the first sound in devanāgarī script and 'ha' is the last sound of devanāgarī. So all of creation happens between 'a' and 'ha' - all happens then between śiva and śakti.

    But there is more to this 'a'... Take a consonant - the first one is k' . Try and sound out this 'k' without an implied 'a' attached to it . This 'k' becomes of use when we attach 'a' to it as in 'ka' - now we can sound it. The inference - śiva and śakti occur together. For each devanāgarī sound of vya&#241;jana (consonants) we find this ubiquitous ever present 'a' with it e.g. ka kha ga gha ṅa ca cha ja jha &#241;a... to the final ha.

    But why is this interesting? In each sound/phoneme bīja this is a corresponding tattva. Let me offer just a few:

    • with 'ka' we find pṛthivi - the quality of earth or solid
    • with kha we find jala - the quality of water or liquid
    • with ga we find tejas - the quality of fire, or combustion, flame, light.
    When we are done we can associate all the mahbhūta-s ( 5 elements) , karmedriya-s ( organs of action) , etc. with the sounds we find in mātṛkacakra.

    But what of this 'a' we have talked about? we find 'a' as the quality of consciousness, this all pervading consciousness, that all resides in. This is why 'a' is śiva.
    And 'ā' is ananda, still part of śiva; and 'i' is iccā or will ( not desire, but will).
    From 'a' springs 'u' and 'i' - the 3 primary vowels. And in śiva tattva this is a= consciousness , 'u'=umeṣa and i = iccā. This umeṣa is coming forth , blossoming. It is the opening of the eyes - whose eyes? śiva-s - the expression of creation.
    We can go further - if we take a+i we end up with 'e'; take a+e we end up with 'ai' ; take a + u and we end up with 'o' take a + o and we end up with 'au'. Hence the importance of 'a'.

    Yet people always talk of 16 vowels ( this appears in mātṛkacakra)... There are 14 + 2. The + 2 are anusvāra (ṁ) and visarga (ḥ). These are used for sounding and applying the rules of sandhi (saṁdhi - proper conjunction or transition from one sound to the other ); this is slightly off the subject but again we find śiva here also , and will leave for another post.

    Here is something I am still studying. In devanāgarī we have 14 + 2 svara (vowels) , and 33 vya&#241;jana (consonants). This adds to 49 sounds/phonemes.
    Yet in mātṛkacakra we find 50 sounds. This 50 is very attractive as it infers 5 +0 or 5 and we get the 5 faces of śiva, the 5 energies , etc. and '0' repesents fullness.

    How can this be? How is there 50 ? There is another sound added kṣa and if look to its definiton it is the protector or cultivator of a field , and also destruction of the world. It then makes sense
    as śiva is unmeṣa ( the opening of the eyes, expansion of creation) He too is the closing of the eyes then there is nimeṣa the shutting of the eyes, or the absorbtion of all of creation back into śiva.

    All this comes into focus with aham (a+ha+m) अहम् and also with sauḥ (sa+au+ḥ) सौः

    praṇām

    words
    mātṛka - is the study and insights of the saṃskṛt sounds . It is the study of the creative aspect of the Supreme. I have much to learn here.
    Last edited by yajvan; 22 August 2010 at 01:45 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    As Krishna said : (if he is selecting the best and basic ones) amongst the alphabets He is "aw" - the first vowel of sanskrit or the other Indian languages.

    This is the only natural sound that comes out without any movement of tongue, lips, etc.

    The other alphabets are only the derivatives of "aw" by moving the toungue and the lips or forcing the lungs.

    So as Yajvanji says this "aw" is the fundamental sound or the basic sound from which others are derived.

    Love and best wishes.
    Last edited by kallol; 23 August 2010 at 09:34 AM.

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    This 'a' is considered first, primary, fundamental to all, hence is considered śiva. It is considered anuttara , unsurpassable - nothing is beyond this.
    This 'a' can also be called dīrgha . This dīrgha is defined as held for a long time. We open the mouth and just voice the 'a' - note how long you can voice this. It can continue until there is no breath. It ( this 'a') is considered utkaṭa or superior, exceeding the usual measure.

    If we look up the definition of 'a' we get many things , yet one is viṣṇu , meaning 'all pervading'. If we look up 'ā' we find many thing again, yet it is a name forśiva .
    In both cases we are dealing with the Supreme, all pervasiveness of this sound and rank. There is much to be learned in each sound/phoneme bīja found in saskt .


    praṇām




    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Different views of śakti or mAyA?

    This is fascinating Yajvan. On a side topic, I am currently reading the Srimad Bhagavatam, and one question I asked myself was why does Brahma or Vishnu communicate the Truth verbally, after all couldn't they use another divine power to transfer the information?

    However when we look at the meaning in Sanskrit words as you have done above, it becomes clear that there is more meaning and depth in verbal/written communication than we may take for granted in our every day speech. Communication itself may seem to be a miracle in itself when we take a step back and look at the purpose or structure of life.

    Back to the topic...

    Having come this far on the topic of Shakti (and maya), may I re-define my question, perhaps you or others may be able to confirm my investigation or add to it:

    Depending on the vantage point we take, which seems to be related to the school of thought, we have a difference relationship with maya and Shakti.

    Ultimately all paths lead to Brahman, but the devotees’ relationship with life itself may differ in respect to how they take material nature to be.

    The role of Shakti can be seen as being a creative and real force acting through us (similar to the example of an escalator) rather than illusive as maya alone, leading to detachment and dispassionate avoidance?

    Once the world is seen to be a constant flux of change and consciousness is seen as the that which is changeless and forever true, can the world be seen as a positive creative force (i.e. Shakti) rather than purely illusive (i.e. Maya)?

    Is this where iccha, or divine will takes place (through name and form)? Is this creativity the same as the free will which Saidevo kindly explains in a part of his post above (thank you Saidevo)?

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