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Thread: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

  1. #11
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    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    SQUID
    ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥
    मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥

    I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna or Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme 434
    . Reason Gurbani of Dasam Granth claims not to adore Ganesh in the beginning is because Ganapati is traditionally invoked first. But that practice varies within sects. Vaishnavs for example some do, some don't with rationale being some teach there is no need to worship the demi-gods since all the demi-gods reside in the One Absolute.


    [/IMG]
    Sikh s need not to know Hindu Sect adore Ganesh or Vishnu .

    These devi devtas are created and destroyed by Waheguru like worms

    ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
    किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै उपाए ॥
    He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.

    ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰਿ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
    उसारे गड़्हे फेरि मेटे बनाए ॥
    He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.

  2. #12

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna or Vishnu;


    Much is made about a few tuuks in Shri Dasam Granth, however I'm aware there's a dispute between the Udasi Govind Sadan translation and the released SGPC translation. And this is no small matter as the SGPC relied on Udasi Baba Virsa Singh who was the Braj and Sanskrit expert who SGPC relied on to translate Sri Dasam Granth into Punjabi and on basis of his respected expertise as a scholar to authenticate Sri Dasam Granth.

    looking for translation of dasam granth
    "I really would recommend the Sri Dasam Granth Translation by Dr Jodh Singh and Dharam Singh."

    "The translation of the whole Dasam Granth is online, in 5 Volumes, in Punjabi.
    Click on the following link (the website is by Baba Virsa Singh)."
    <admin-cut: anti gurmat site>

    "This has been discussed a few times. Baba Virsa is a fake guru and gobind sadans translations are not per gurmat."

    "I humbly request the SikhSangat admins to remove that link. And Sadh Sangat jee please be warned that Gobind Sadan is an anti-panthic organization and their interpretations of Guru's bani are very twisted and prejudiced."

    "The surinder singh kolhi version does not have Chitropakhyan... alot is cut out."
    http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?...h/page__st__36
    ------------------------------

    Imagine the logic that Gobind Sadan was cut from the link on Sikh Sangat forum as ANTI-GURMAT, even as the SGPC could not complete the Punjabi translation and release of Sri Dasam Granth without the sanatan Udasi Baba's help. Now that's what I call some lousy gratitude.

    "On February 20th, 2000, at Gobind Sadan, His Holiness Baba Virsa Singh released the first complete Punjabi translation of the writings of Guru Gobind Singh, plus other scholarly works about the life and teachings of Guru Gobind Singh." http://www.dasamgranth.org/
    "Special guest, Giani Partap Singh ji, Head Granthi, Siri Sachkhand Hazoor Sahib remarked: "After Guru Granth Sahib ji, Dasam Granth holds a very special place with the Panth. In reality, Guru Granth Sahib ji is the bani for the whole world, but Dasam Granth is the Granth of Khalsa Panth. It contains the bani basic to the Sikh principles."

    Keynote speaker, Dr. Harpal Singh Pannu, Professor and head of the Department of Religious Studies, Punjabi University, Patiala, recounted the 300 year history of Dasam Granth: It was given so much respect that, "originally Dal Khalsa were responsible for caring for this Granth, and then the leaders of the Nihangs took the responsibility. At this point all Nihangs, both the Damdani Takhsals, the Udasi and Nirmala Semperdais, the SGPC and DGPC, Srimani Akali Dal, and the Gobind Sadan Institute have all accepted that Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh ji's bani. Only some irresponsible missionaries and their organizations and missionary colleges have been preaching against the purity and authenticity of this Granth."Gobind Sadan Institute
    Academic Concerns of Sri Dasam Granth

    "However, the controversy continues, as there is reluctance among some modern day preachers to fully accept the entire text of the Dasam Granth. Therefore, scholars appealed to Baba Virsa Singh, a highly revered spiritual teacher of Sikh background, to gather scholars to clarify the doubts about the Dasam Granth. A seminar was held on January 3rd and 4th, 1999, at the Gobind Sadan Institute in New Delhi, India.

    On February 20th, 2000, at Gobind Sadan, Baba Virsa Singh confirmed the Dasam Granth in its entirety as the Guru's work and released the first complete Punjabi translation of the writings of Guru Gobind Singh, plus other scholarly works about the life and teachings of Guru Gobind Singh."
    Dasam Granth
    Some portions of the Dasam Granth have not been fully accepted by some Sikhs. However, most Sikh groups, including all of the older organisations, accept it in its entirety.

    At one stage it was debated whether to divide the book. This question arose because the original writings of the Tenth Guru had not been joined into one granth, but were separate. They had been collected into a single Granth by Bhai Mani Singh. Bhai Mehtab Singh of Mirankot (who was charged by the Panth to capture or assassinate Massa Ranghar who had established himself in the holy Golden Temple at Amritsar and was desecrating its sanctity) suggested to the leaders of his community that if he came back victorious in his mission, the book should be preserved in one volume, otherwise it may divided into two. Mehtab Singh was successful in putting Massa Ranghar to an ignoble death and hence the volume was preserved as it now is. This, however, as the Sikh savant, Bhai Kahan Singh points out, is a most arbitrary way of settling a point of such literary and theological significance. Moreover, a single man's point of view should not have prevailed - especially of a military hero, or even a Jathedar in search of martyrdom, in preference to the viewpoint of the theologians and scholars who were still discussing the point.

    From 1892 to 1897, eminent scholars assembled at the Akal Takht, Amritsar, to study the various printed Dasam Granths and prepare an authoritative version. They consulted as many as 32 editions before preparing the version that is currently in circulation.Dasam Granth
    The Singh Sabha are responsible for the version which is autheticated today. But it would be oversimplistic and naive to overlook there were originally during time of Singh Sabha reform, 32 different Granths, while today only 3 can be accounted for.


    Udasi Baba Virsa Singh Of Gobind Sadan


    Gobind Sadan

  3. #13

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Sikh s need not to know Hindu Sect adore Ganesh or Vishnu .

    These devi devtas are created and destroyed by Waheguru like worms
    So it always amounts to "Sikhs do not need Hindus, and implicit rejection and denial of Sanatan Hindu heritage in the very concepts of Guruji's bani. For understanding let's look at what you've said.

    1. are you implying that to YOU devi devtas are worms? Because THAT is an arrogant and incorrect misinterpretation. But acknowledge, first, conceptually, Dasam Granth bani does not speak directly of Waheguru. It does speak of Kal and Akaal. Now you can simplify and say those are all the same thing, but really, there are linguistic differences to explain conceptual distinctions. Kal is time, and time destroys everything sarguna. The devi devta are PART of the ABSOLUTE LORD, and CREATED BY HIM to fight evil and uphold Dharma. NEVER are Devi Devta called EVIL, though they are considered corrupted for purposes of being 1. in sansaar, 2. part of the sarguna materiality and therefore temporary, and 3. not in completeness, not pure, not completely free from falsehood, NIRANJANA.

    Now, the devatay are powers, like the sun. Can you look down at the sun? See, these forces are quite beyond human. Yet, this precious human life affords us the opportunity to obtain mukti, and so those beings, even if they be demi-gods, yearn for the precious human body. But the moment you become arrogant, mocking or look down at devatay, you are not only far from mukti, but you are disresepcting the forces God Himself put into being as powers and opulences and Lights. There is a cycle of time. After the Kali Yug will come again the Sat Yug. It's unfathomable how many times this cycle has existed. Ramas and Krishnas come and go. If you look to and cling to and worship the SARGUN manifestation, you will suffer the despair of loss. That is NOT the boat of Mukti. But worship, believe and put faith in that aspect with the sarguna REPRESENTS to us in materiality...that which is ETERNAL.


    ਨਮੋ ਆਦਿ ਅਭੰਗੇ ਨਮੋ ਆਦਿ ਅਭੰਗੇ ॥੫॥੯੫॥
    नमो आदि अभंगे नमो आदि अभंगे ॥५॥९५॥
    Salutation to Him, Who is Primal and Immortal; Salutation to Him who is Primal and Immortal.5.95.

    ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
    किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै उपाए ॥
    He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.

    ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰਿ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
    उसारे गड़्हे फेरि मेटे बनाए ॥
    He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.

    ਅਗਾਧੇ ਅਭੈ ਆਦਿ ਅਦ੍ਵੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ॥
    अगाधे अभै आदि अद्वै अबिनासी ॥
    He is Unfathomable, Fearless, Primal, Non-dual and Indestructible.
    ~Shri Dasam Guru Granth p. 54


    So with intelligence we can see the comparison is being made directly of the Infinite and indestructible which at bottom of the page is called...

    ਸੁ ਭੂਤੇ ਭਵਿਖੇ ਭਵਾਨੇ ਅਚਿਤ੍ਰੇ ॥੮॥੯੮॥
    सु भूते भविखे भवाने अचित्रे ॥८॥९८॥
    That Imageless Lord was in the past, is in the present and will be in the future. 8.98.

    ਨ ਰਾਯੰ ਨ ਰੰਕੰ ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ॥
    न रायं न रंकं न रूपं न रेखं ॥
    He is neither the king, nor the poor, without form and without mark.



    Imageless and without form. And this is compared with the sarguna of devatay and avtaray. The Guru Sahib is not saying anywhere the devi devta are 1. fake, 2. rejected, 3. worthless. He is explaining them in their context. Same context as Vaishnav sampraday within Sanatan Dharm.


    antavat tu phalaḿ teṣāḿ
    tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām
    devān deva-yajo yānti
    mad-bhaktā yānti mām api
    Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.
    Bhagavad-Gita As it is 7.23


    So it is clear the origin of this interpretation is from within Hindu Mat and cannot possibly be AGAINST Hindu Mat or any kind of condemnation of it.


    ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
    किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै उपाए ॥
    He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.

    ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰਿ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
    उसारे गड़्हे फेरि मेटे बनाए ॥
    He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.


    Now, what can this mean? First you must understand the context of universes upon universes uncountable and beyond human comprehension. Now within this space are uncountable trillions of earths, and uncountable trillions of avatars on those earths who, as part of sarguna, fall into time, and die and that manifestation crumbles to dust.

    But the Jyot which was from the God merges back into the God. Just like Guru Gobind Singh Ji is dead and his body has crumbled to dust. You don't say the BODY of Guru Gobind Singh Ji is your Guru, because that would be trying to worship temporal grains of sand.

    So this is the context, because Guru Granth Sahib clearly states the God is BOTH NIRGUN AND SARGUN, so when the sarguna crumbles, the nirguna is the infinite, unborn and undying expression who is called by uncountable trillions of names in trillions of uncountable universes. Somewhere He is Krishan avatar, somewhere Rama, somewhere names we can't imagine...

    BUT ALWAYS THE DIVINE LIGHT IS ONE. This is no philosophy of fake gods competing against the Real Abrahamic God, who punishes and destroys them for being fake. It's the very design of the creation.


    ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੁ ਉਪਾਇਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਗੋਪੀ ਖੋਜੀ ਜੀਉ ॥
    har aapae kaanha oupaaeidhaa maerae govidhaa har aapae gopee khojee jeeo ||
    The Lord Himself created Krishna, O my Lord of the Universe; the Lord Himself is the milkmaids who seek Him.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 174

  4. #14

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Within some sects of Vaishnavism Krishna is worshipped as the Niranjan Supreme and Absolute timeless Lord. In other sects Rama is said to be this. In others Radha-Krishna. Some sects call it Sada Shiva. Sikhism calls it Waheguru. However, the philsophical concepts are exact. The sarguna manifests the Light of the Divine Absolute principle which is beyond human comprehension (agochar), embodying for a time. The embodiment is not the God. But the God takes on form. Even Vaishnav sampraday which worship Bhagavan Krishna as the Absolute don't worship His embodiment but rather worship the Totality of all His opulences.


    na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ
    prabhavaḿ na maharṣayaḥ
    aham ādir hi devānāḿ
    maharṣīṇāḿ ca sarvaśaḥ
    Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin or opulences, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and sages.
    ~Bhagavad Gita As It Is 10.2



    Lord Śiva said: "My dear son, I, Lord Brahmā and the other devas, who move within this universe under the misconception of our greatness, cannot exhibit any power to compete with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for innumerable universes and their inhabitants come into existence and are annihilated by the simple direction of the Lord" (Bhagavata Purana 9.4.56)


    Every universe is covered by seven layers — earth, water, fire, air, sky, the total energy and false ego — each ten times greater than the previous one. There are innumerable universes besides this one, and although they are unlimitedly large, they move about like atoms in You. Therefore You are called unlimited (Bhagavata Purana 6.16.37)


    Because You are unlimited, neither the lords of heaven nor even You Yourself can ever reach the end of Your glories. The countless universes, each enveloped in its shell, are compelled by the wheel of time to wander within You, like particles of dust blowing about in the sky. The śrutis, following their method of eliminating everything separate from the Supreme, become successful by revealing You as their final conclusion (Bhagavata Purana 10.87.41)



    And who will search through the wide infinities of space to count the universes side by side, each containing its Brahma, its Vishnu, its Shiva? Who can count the Indras in them all--those Indras side by side, who reign at once in all the innumerable worlds; those others who passed away before them; or even the Indras who succeed each other in any given line, ascending to godly kingship, one by one, and, one by one, passing away? (Brahma Vaivarta Purana)


    Sound familiar? It's should. This is Vedic and Puranic philosphical thought. It cannot possibly be misconstrued to be a teaching AGAINST itself.

  5. #15

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    See, just a couple pages later and Shri Dasam Granth is describing the One infinte Lord as sarguna, by form and qualities, some of which are less than perfect. And that's because He is All, nothing is rejected. It's not an Abrahamic competition, or philosophically like a Zoroastrian eternal God pitted against a false and evil Satan who is perpetually "not God." Don't try to make devatay and avtaray into some kind of satan.




    ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵ ਕੰਨਿਆ ਕਹੂੰ ਦਾਨਵੀ ਹੋ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਜੱਛ ਬਿਦਯਾ ਧਰੇ ਮਾਨਵੀ ਹੋ ॥
    कहूं देव कंनिआ कहूं दानवी हो ॥ कहूं ज्छ बिदया धरे मानवी हो ॥
    Somewhere Thou art a daughter of gods and somewhere a daughter of demons. Somewhere a daughter of Yakshas, Vidyadhars and men.

    ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਸੀ ਹੋ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਕੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਕੀ ਰਿਸਟ ਪੰਨਿਆ ॥੨੧॥੧੧੧॥
    कहूं राजसी हो कहूं राज कंनिआ ॥ कहूं स्रिसटि की प्रिसट की रिसट पंनिआ ॥२१॥१११॥
    Somewhere Thou art the queen and somewhere Thou art the princess. Somewhere Thou art the superb daughter of the Nagas of netherworld. 21.111.

    ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਿੱਦਿਆ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਓਮ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਾਬਿ ਕਥੈ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥
    कहूं बेद बि्दिआ कहूं बिओम बानी ॥ कहूं कोक की काबि कथै कहानी ॥
    Somewhere Thou art the learning of Vedas and somewhere the voice of heaven. Somewhere Thu art the discourse and story of general poets.

    ਕਹੂੰ ਅਦ੍ਰ ਸਾਰੰ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੱਦ੍ਰ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਸਰੂਪੰ ॥੨੨॥੧੧੨॥
    कहूं अद्र सारं कहूं भद्र रूपं ॥ कहूं म्द्र बानी कहूं छिद्र सरूपं ॥२२॥११२॥
    Somewhere Thou art iron and somewhere Thou art splendid gold. Somewhere Thou art sweet speech and somewhere Thou art critical and fault finding.
    ~SGGS p. 57

  6. #16

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Harjas Kaur, you are brilliant. (This is sarcasm, for the uninitiated)

    Now its high time you put photos of
    baba ashutosh, baba dera sacha sauda and nirankari baba and tell everybody that they are sikhs, and what they preach is sikhism.

    The name "Kaur" lifted you from being an ordinary girl to a "Princess"
    Don't insult the guru who made you the "Princess"

  7. #17
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    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Quote Originally Posted by darshansingh View Post
    The name "Kaur" lifted you from being an ordinary girl to a "Princess"
    Every Sikh girl has been "lifted" to be a princess and others are ordinary (read - low life) girls.

    It's starting to sound like "caste system" , which is a no no in Sikhism?

  8. #18

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    sorry, believer - didn't mean it that way. But I see your point.

  9. #19

    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    Darshansingh writes:
    Quote Originally Posted by darshansingh View Post
    Harjas Kaur, you are brilliant. (This is sarcasm, for the uninitiated)

    Now its high time you put photos of baba ashutosh, baba dera sacha sauda and nirankari baba and tell everybody that they are sikhs, and what they preach is sikhism.

    The name "Kaur" lifted you from being an ordinary girl to a "Princess"
    Don't insult the guru who made you the "Princess"
    All right dear, why are you making sarcastic comment about my qualities? Is that the only thing you can say after reading the essay? Are you incapable of responding to the points the essay is making that you resort to comments about the person who wrote it?
    Dear, this is juvenile. Please discuss the essay, challenge points, refute them, make a counter-argument, or ignore it. But please, leave the personal slanders out of it. Thanks.

    The name of Kaur did not lift one out of anything, just as Believer Ji pointed out. Kaur is the traditional title given to ruling Rajputana for last thousand years. What Guru Gobind Singh Ji did was promote the value and dignity of the woman by calling all girls as "Kaur." So for one thing, Kaur comes from Hindu culture as does "Singh."

    For another thing, in purataan times Sikh ladies were called as Ma or Devi. But the implication is exactly the same, the female is always honored, whether in Hindu or Sikh society as Ma, Devi or Prince/Princess. Nowhere is anybody being devalued. When you make such comments, without realizing, you show the bigotry which you have learned believing only "Sikh" community honors it's women and that Hindu community does not. And that is why you get Hindu's challenging you.


    Now its high time you put photos of
    baba ashutosh, baba dera sacha sauda and nirankari baba and tell everybody that they are sikhs, and what they preach is sikhism.

    And who is anybody to say they are not? Why do you think only YOU and YOUR idea of Sikh hierarchy are the exclusive voice of world Sikhism while marginalizing and slandering the traditional communities such as Ram Raiyas, Minas, Udasis, Nirmalas, Sevapanthis, Kabirpanthis and the sects which also came up influenced in some measure by them, Namdharis, Nirankaris, Radhasoamis, Nanaksaris and modernly the dera-sant samaj which would be including Baba Asutosh and dera Sacha Sauda.

    Is this all the katha you learn from the Singh Sabhas how everybody with a different interpretation from the mainstream is demonized and inauthentic? You realize there have been 3 assassination teams foiled by Punjab police against Baba Ram Rahim of dera Sacha Sauda? So mainstream endlessly promotes the rhetoric of how they are a danger to Sikh identity, how they are disrespecting Sikh religion and Sikh Gurus, and literally calling for assassinations. Dear, I can't justify this mentality. It is extremist. It is contrary to the actual Gurmat teachings of Guru Sahibaan. It is like taliban.


    "Three prominent sect leaders in Punjab - Ashutosh Maharaj, Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh and Baba Piara Bhaniarewala - are on the hit list of Khalistan separatist forces that are trying to regroup with the help of overseas funds and the Pakistani intelligence agency, say Indian security officials.

    These Sikh militant forces include the Khalistan Commando Force (KCF), the Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), the Khalistan Liberation Force (KLF), and the Bhindranwale Tigers Force of Khalistan.

    Wednesday's arrest of two BKI associates in Jalandhar, Punjab, who were allegedly planning to kill Baba Piara Bhaniarewala only underlines the looming threat. "Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and its terrorist cells are plotting to trigger sectarian violence in Punjab,"

    ..."They are not only providing shelter to them in our neighbouring country but Khalistan outfits like the BKI is training with Pakistan based terror-outfit like Laskher-e-Taiba (LeT)." Sikh militancy raised its head in Punjab in the 1980s, but security forces comprehensively stamped it out by 1993, forcing many of its leaders to flee the country. Around 25,000 lives were lost in the battle against Sikh separatist terror.

    But Khalistan militant groups are now conspiring to eliminate Ashutosh Maharaj of Divya Jyoti Jagaran Sansthan at Noormahal, Baba Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh of Dera Sacha Sauda and Baba Piara Bhaniarewala in Ropar and the heads of other religious sects in Punjab that have a large following. The BKI has reportedly set up a common office with the LeT in Nankana Sahib in Pakistan.

    "The BKI and other such outfits, which consistently receive a substantial amount of overseas funding and support for militant groups, from Khalistani operatives in Germany, US, Britain and Canada, have plotted to murder Ashutosh Maharaj, Baba Ram Rahim and Baba Piara Bhaniarewala to give momentum to their campaigns of a separate state by triggering sectarian violence," the official added.

    Following the intelligence inputs, the Indian high commission in Ottawa has raised concern with the government here over activities relating to Khalistan movement in Canada. The officials said these extremists were trying to win the support of Punjab youths by targeting the three sect leaders, who have been accused of making people "deviate from Sikh religion"."

    Ashutosh Maharaj, Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh and Baba Piara Bhaniarewala - are on the hit list of Khalistan separatist
    Now, instead of using the names of dear babas as slurs, expecting to create demonized impression in other people's minds, [B]why don't you tell what you have against them, point by point, logically like an adult. May I ask why you use the names of these dera babas to slander me? I am not from dera Sacha Sauda. I'm not a chela of Baba Asutosh. I'm not a Nirankari.

    Yet, in this inflammed atmosphere of literal assassinations, what possible purpose it could serve by smearing me with groups which already have death sentence over their heads by the radical Sikh separatists? May I ask HOW it is you think to come across to Hindu community with such radicalized fanatical opposition demonizing any sanatan oriented groups who challenge the mainstream opinion?

    You think marginalization so extreme it creates public slander and even hate speech coming from Sikh mainstream to justify murder? You think we don't read Sikh forums? Because the jathedar of the Akal Takhat is aout as mainstream as you can get.

    Why does anybody care what they believe in? How are the beliefs of others a threat to anybody, beliefs which Guru Sahibaan so wonderfully articulated respect and tolerance of. Why does anybody feel they are the Divine right of God to oppress, ridicule, marginalize, invalidate, mock, and make death threats against "another interpretation of Sikh religion?"

    "Monday April 13th, 2008

    To voice their anger against activities of the pseudo cults including NIrankaris, DJJS, Sirsa Dera for undermining Sikh beliefs and the concept of Shabad Guru, members of the organization took out a ‘Khalsa March’ at Amritsar on April 13, 2009 to "expose the evil and nefarious designs" of the pseudo-saints...

    The Sikh bodies through a resolution steadfastly maintained that any disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib or any challenge to its guruship will not be tolerated and will be dealt firmly with full force...

    Significantly, the Jathedar of the Akal Takht Gaini Gurbachan Singh flagged off the march. He also performed Ardas in memory of 13 Sikhs. Paying rich tributes to them, he called upon the Sikh masses to unite in their pursuit against these pseudo-saints.

    Hundreds of Dal Khalsa activists were carrying placards and large size banners displaying pictures of militant leaders including Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Talwinder Singh Babbar, Wadhawa Singh Babbar and many others. The spirited gathering shouted slogans in their favour for spearheading the militant struggle against “gurudom” and to avenge the killings of 13 Sikhs against neo-Nirankaris in early 80’s. They also eulogized the role and contribution of former jathedar Akal Takht Bhai Ranjit Singh who along with Bhai Kabul Singh allegedly “killed” Nirankari chief responsible for Baisakhi massacre. Large size pictures of Sant Bhindrawale, Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Bhai Ranjit Singh beside those of 13 Sikhs were displayed on the mini-truck...

    To ensure unflinching respect for Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh bodies including Damdami Taksal, Akand Kirtani Jatha, Khalsa Action Committee beside Dal Khalsa reiterated that it was a religious and pious duty of every Sikh to defeat the designs of all such sects and cults, which were propagating the concept of "living gurus" contrary to the fundamentals of the Sikh faith.

    Striking a discordant chord, the organizers said while the Sikhs are presently engaged in a bitter struggle against the blasphemous acts of the neo-Nirankaris, DJJS led by Aushotosh, Sauda dera, they are emphatically opposed to all schismatic sects including Radhaswami and Namdhari sects as they were also underscoring the fundamentals of Sikh religion in a silent but systematic manner.

    The gathering observed that the anti-Sikh network of likes of Gurmeet Ram Rahim, Aushotosh would have to be curtailed and smashed to uphold the fundamentals of Sikhism. The gathering sought a complete ban on Sirsa dera, DJJS, and complicity of those police and civil officers supporting these cults to be scrutinized...

    Tracing its roots to Baisakhi incident, party spokesperson Kanwar Pal Singh said many radical organizations including Babbar Khalsa, Dal Khalsa came into being with avowed aim to curtail the blasphemous acts of the pseudo-sects.

    Khalsa March sends strong warning to pseudo-saints, astray cults and sects: Disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib or any challenge to its Guruship will not be tolerated
    Babbar Khalsa terrorist group? Khalistan Zindabad Force militants? To SMASH and CURTAIL and using ANY FORCE NECESSARY to combat the NEFERIOUS DESIGNS of SANTS who challenge the mainstream interpretation?



    Yes, I've been saying for a few years now, Sikh Sabha separatist Sikhism has gone way past the point of no return. Not only is the mainstream marginalizing, trivializing and negating the TRADITIONAL SANATAN interpretations, it has positively declared WAR ON THEM!~

    And this is nothing short of a war against the Hindu Dharma these groups all have in common.

  10. #20
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    Re: Sikh Sabhas Demystified

    namaskar,


    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    Darshansingh writes:


    All right dear, why are you making sarcastic comment about my qualities? Is that the only thing you can say after reading the essay? Are you incapable of responding to the points the essay is making that you resort to comments about the person who wrote it?
    I wondered about the same thing and this is the only reason I left the personal attacks towards you intact in that post. When people can't come up with anything they attack the messenger.
    satay

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