Yoga-vasistha

[Sudarshan]

Sudarshan follow what suits you best.

Ones prArabdha karma dictates what one can follow:-

If you are born with some superior kind of faith established on more than a blind faith { like having visions etc} you have very little to go in search of a path. Simply surrender to God.

If you are born with higher consciousness or remember past lives, you automatically know where you left off and know where to continue.

If you are born in the family of saints, for eg the son or grandon of a true Yogi, you are blessed and have the route and doubts cleared easily.

If fate brings you onto a direct encounter with God or a true sage, then again, simply surrender to this agent.

In the absence of any of the above, human beings are left in a dark alley, and will tread on a path that matches their guNa or vAsanAs. In such a case, it is better to act on ones instincts but learning to discriminate dharma and adharma. For most such people, simply praying to God earnestly for guidance and leading a dharmic life will open the way in future. Until you have a supernatural encounter in your life due to your past meritorious deeds, one cannot know what is beneficial for ones own progress- the ways of fate are mysterious.

[atanu]

Ones prArabdha karma dictates what one can follow:-

If you are born with some superior kind of faith established on more than a blind faith { like having visions etc} you have very little to go in search of a path. Simply surrender to God.

If you are born with higher consciousness or remember past lives, you automatically know where you left off and know where to continue.

If you are born in the family of saints, for eg the son or grandon of a true Yogi, you are blessed and have the route and doubts cleared easily.

If fate brings you onto a direct encounter with God or a true sage, then again, simply surrender to this agent.

In the absence of any of the above, human beings are left in a dark alley, and will tread on a path that matches their guNa or vAsanAs. In such a case, it is better to act on ones instincts but learning to discriminate dharma and adharma. For most such people, simply praying to God earnestly for guidance and leading a dharmic life will open the way in future. Until you have a supernatural encounter in your life due to your past meritorious deeds, one cannot know what is beneficial for ones own progress- the ways of fate are mysterious.

Yes, true. But we are concerned here about the paths proposed by Vashista and all of them are good simultaneously or individually. Actually, many people may not have a chance to come in contact with such scripture in life time. Any path followed dilligently brings in the good of other paths also -- that is what the sage promises.

Moreover, I take this opportunity to indicate certain things. Gunas and Vasanas are there but there is Viveka also. Viveka leads us always to correct direction, sometimes inflicting pain.

Self control, contentment, enquiry etc., are really not different things.

Contentment is always out of bhakti (opposite of bibhakti). Bibhakti is a sense of division. Bhakti is truly oneness. Harmonious Yoga. If one is born contented then he is a rishi. When there is discontentment then only there is need to enquire why the discontentment?


Though traditionally satsang is considered association of true sages. But the Sat is the Self. So following Lord Krishna's directive: Abide in me. Always think of me, leads one to true satsang. Brahmacharya is also same. One who can abide in Self (or one one's ishta devata) without break, what is sin for him?


But all these seem to be very far away. So, conscious control of mind is important. But for some even that is not possible. It requires will power and discipline. For them pure and sweet surrender is sufficient. Total surrender will automatically make one contented.

But again this is not so easy. True surrender is like state of deep sleep with consciousness intact.


So, it boils down to finding the Turiya which is always there hidden.


Om Namah Shivayya

[Arjuna]

Physical illness certainly may make some yoga methods impossible, but meditation is a purely mental process; and for the practice of meditation and jnana yoga, the only necessity is an intelligently controlled mind.
And even if one is bedridden for life, the shava asana is quite appropriate for meditation!

Totally agree. Although it is obviously preferable to be phisically healthy, Self-realisation is not dependant upon body health and abilities, while it is for sure dependant upon buddhi.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Totally agree. Although it is obviously preferable to be phisically healthy, Self-realisation is not dependant upon body health and abilities, while it is for sure dependant upon buddhi.

Arjuna, (et.al)
What are your thoughts then of one that is ill and cannot practice ones sadhana due to their physical discomfort?

And that of meditation is a mental process, yes true. The mind is tightly coupled to the body. Illness in the mind affects the body and vice versa.

Its my opinion that if the body is not fit for sadhana then the mind will have difficultly with is meditations. If we look to the Upanishads we see the invocation for a healthy body. Lets look at first line and last lines of the Chandogya Upanishad 1.1.1 and 8.15.1, as an expample:

Om. May my limbs, speech, prana, eyes, ears and my strength all and their sense organ become full-grown and well -functioning.

Many may view this as a pleasentry, an amenable opening to a Kanda, yet the notion is a healthy body and mind compliments the spiritual pursuit of the sadhaka.

One could say not every Upanishad starts with this salutation. That is correct. There is well-wishing for the guru-sisya, or for the praise to the various devatata to be good to the teacher-student, and for their protection (Taittiriya Upanishad 1.1.1) Most often there santi mantra offered, and we also find the famous purnamadah purnamidam offered e.g. Isavasya Upanishad.

Yet it has been my experience that when physical illness is at hand ( for me and others I associate with), meditation is strained at best and my sadhana is impacted.

If you choose, I would like to hear of your experiences. Perhaps you differ.

pranams,

[Arjuna]

To Yajvan:

Of course having healthy body is helpful for any sAdhana. Noone denies that i hope .
The point is that inner practices (such as japa, manana and dhyAna for example) can be done with sick or even paralyzed body, since they aren't dependant on it. In Vedantic and Tantric (non-Kaula) systems highest realisation is achieved by purely mental methods, jnAna-yoga. And there is no reason to say that phisically sick person is incapable of sajjnAna. On the contrary, we know plenty of examples of jnAnins who were bodily sick, both in Hindu myths and actual history.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

quote=Arjuna;16812]To Yajvan:

Of course having healthy body is helpful for any sAdhana. None denies that i hope .
The point is that inner practices (such as japa, manana and dhyAna for example) can be done with sick or even paralyzed body, since they aren't dependant on it. In Vedantic and Tantric (non-Kaula) systems highest realisation is achieved by purely mental methods, jnAna-yoga. And there is no reason to say that phisically sick person is incapable of sajjnAna. On the contrary, we know plenty of examples of jnAnins who were bodily sick, both in Hindu myths and actual history.

Namaste Arjuna,
Points well made. Yet I feel perhaps you have missed my point and that is okay too.
We both agree health is the preferred state, of that we agree. I also concur that mental techniques can be done in a ill state. Yet it is the fruit of ones actions, the results of ones sadhana.

In my experience and those that I associate with, Illness brings less clarity of mind, and my experience of transcending is curtailed i.e. sluggishness at best and loss of focus.

Does it stop me from sitting upright and proceeding accordingly. Nope, it can be done. Yet the results and experience thereof is impacted due to the ill state of the body affecting the mind. I hope we agree on this body-mind connection.

And note I am not implying or saying "that physically sick person is incapable of sajjnAna" . My post comes from my experience and that of others. Incapable is not the issue... it is the results I am speaking of.

And in terms of intensity of illness e.g. a paralyzed body. This I believe we can look at in two ways:
1. A standing condition of the physiology. I have a colleague that is paralyzed, and does his sadhana daily. Yet when he is ill ( that of the flu, colds, etc) He mentions he is 'fuzzy' and that his meditations are less then desirable, yet marches on. As ones sadhana assists in bringing health.

2. Illnesses and non-standard trauma that causes sadhana issues.
So here is the point were we could diverged in thinking... you mention 'highest realisation is achieved by purely mental methods'.

Purely mental is still dependent on the physical condition of the sadhu.
Is not the nervous system part of ones mental composition? And parts of the brain ( the hypothalamus, sympathetic and parasympathetic systems, etc.). If those parts were in need of repair or damaged then this would affect ones sadhana, of this there is no doubt.

Let me give some examples...

• That of memory. One forgets from day to day. Ones sadhana is impacted due to this gross malfunctioning of the memory. How can one move forward without this?
  
  Additional clinical conditions
• Stroke victims
  Loss of parts of brain functioning, memory, motor skills
• Stressful environments
  A stressful situation occurs, the body reacts with an outpouring of hormones (adrenaline, norepinephrine, and cortisol) - How does one settle down for sadhana? I can be done, yet the physiology influences the psychology.
• Illness, anger-producing situations-
  Has markedly damaging effects on the body and the brain. Who says? Stanford University, have investigated stress and health and report that a prolonged flood of stress hormones can actually cause shrinking in certain brain areas, particularly in the hippocampus.A major role of the hippocampus is in memory. It is not unusual for persons with prolonged stress to report forgetfulness and difficulty learning.
• Ttraumatic brain injury
  Physical force injury to the head can cause nerve cells in the brain to stretch, tear, and pull apart, making them unable to relay messages from one part of the brain to another.
• Mild traumatic brain injury
  The brain, thinking becomes slow, memory becomes unreliable, and concentration becomes haphazard. The roadblocks of damaged and disconnected neurons mar the processing of electro-chemical messages within the brain. Thinking is subject to errors caused by unfamiliar neural detours. Judgment and decision-making become faulty.
• Brain injury causes structural and functional changes. So , when one may get an injury or illness that affects or attacks the brain, then the following areas are at risk:
  
  - Integration of thought and emotion
  - Memory & Intellect
  - Self Monitoring and self referral
  - Judgement, reasoning and abstract thinking
  - Initiation i.e. the ability for self start

These areas are in fact conditional for ones sadhana to move forward and progress... So my POV is formed by my personal experience, others that suggest the same, and some science that I have reviewed. If we differ , I respect your position as such and we can still talk of complexity of condition, the type sadhu mental practice that is completely independent of the above, etc. and it will still bear a fruitful conversation.


thank you for the post...
pranams,




Sources:
http://www.brainsource.com/brain%20injury.htm
http://www.brainsource.com/stress_&_health.htm
http://www.memorybankinc.com/cvhis/brain_map.htm

[SHIVAJI]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Atanu Banerjee,
Yes, I find this too, that enquiry is very delightful to pursue...
they say knowledge is the greatest purifier.

Well said .


Truth is High, yet Higher is Truthful Living.

--- Guru Nanak

[sm78]

I think Yajvan Ji has presented a complete case on the importance of physical well-being.

All sages and teachers have stressed the need for a perfectly healthy body as "body is the 1st means to liberation". The whole human birth revolves around this body.

There have been cases where ill persons have been able to carry on a portion of the sadhna (as yajvan says the so called "mental" sadhana cannot be carried on properly with an ill body). However these are exceptions and not ideals.

[sm78]

In Vedantic and Tantric (non-Kaula) systems highest realisation is achieved by purely mental methods, jnAna-yoga.

Ah!, I see that after a year you are saying that there could be Tantric systems which are non-Kaula (and hence non-5M).

[Arjuna]

Ah!, I see that after a year you are saying that there could be Tantric systems which are non-Kaula (and hence non-5M).

Here i used this term in specific meaning it has in KSh context.
And Ur assumption is incorrect; Tantric systems do have 5 or 3 M (mIna and mudrA are later additions) but their ultimate method is shAmbhavopAya which leads to "recognition" (pratyabhijnA); while Kaula system goes further to jagadAnanda which is solely reached via Kula-yAga or kAmakalA.