Ramanuja

[dogra]

http://web.me.com/eternalbrothers/et..._Ramanuja.html
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Shri Ramanuja, the renowned 11th century philosopher and religious leader, is a central figure in a vast lineage of scholars and mystics belonging to the spiritual path of Shri Vaishnavism, a monotheistic religious tradition of India focussed on Vishnu. In addition to being a prodigious thinker and esteemed religious teacher, Shri Ramanuja is also revered for his compassion and humanism. His instructions to his disciples were that the message of the Shri Vaishnava Path should be shared with all, irrespective of race, caste, creed or gender. Such an open and inclusive attitude allowed the Shri Vaishnava message of love and service to God to break through the rigidities of caste and segregation.



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He understood the humanity in Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism, as many others know

[atmarama108]

http://web.me.com/eternalbrothers/et..._Ramanuja.html
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Shri Ramanuja, the renowned 11th century philosopher and religious leader, is a central figure in a vast lineage of scholars and mystics belonging to the spiritual path of Shri Vaishnavism, a monotheistic religious tradition of India focussed on Vishnu. In addition to being a prodigious thinker and esteemed religious teacher, Shri Ramanuja is also revered for his compassion and humanism. His instructions to his disciples were that the message of the Shri Vaishnava Path should be shared with all, irrespective of race, caste, creed or gender. Such an open and inclusive attitude allowed the Shri Vaishnava message of love and service to God to break through the rigidities of caste and segregation.



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He understood the humanity in Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism, as many others know

Not to mention his wonderful commentary on Bhagavad Gita, which is undefeatable by the followers of Shankaracharya.

[Omkara]

http://web.me.com/eternalbrothers/et..._Ramanuja.html
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Shri Ramanuja, the renowned 11th century philosopher and religious leader, is a central figure in a vast lineage of scholars and mystics belonging to the spiritual path of Shri Vaishnavism, a monotheistic religious tradition of India focussed on Vishnu. In addition to being a prodigious thinker and esteemed religious teacher, Shri Ramanuja is also revered for his compassion and humanism. His instructions to his disciples were that the message of the Shri Vaishnava Path should be shared with all, irrespective of race, caste, creed or gender. Such an open and inclusive attitude allowed the Shri Vaishnava message of love and service to God to break through the rigidities of caste and segregation.



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He understood the humanity in Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism, as many others know

For what purpose have you posted this? Please don't tell me you think Ramanuja agreed with your views.

[philosoraptor]

Of course, it just proves my point that Ramanuja felt everyone could follow Vaishnavism regardless of caste, even as he observed the caste traditions himself and supported the scriptural view on classifying caste based on heredity. I posted his comments from his BSB earlier, as well as from Shankaracharya, and to the best of my knowledge none of the revisionists have responded to those, even while claiming that Ramanuja and Shankara don't associate caste with birth.

Oh dear, too many facts! My head is starting to hurt. I guess it's time for me to read Agniveer.com!

[wundermonk]

It is quite clear that the issue is the following:

Agniveer represents Arya Samaj. One of the reasons Arya Samaj was founded was to prevent the deconversion of Hindus to other religions. It is quite clear to me that the belief in hereditary varnashrama has led to Hindus converting to other religions. As a result, the Shuddhi or reconversion campaign was launched to bring people back into Hinduism. The scriptural basis that Arya Samaj follows is only the Vedas. So, in one sense, they are as traditional as one can get. They do not accept the validity of the Darshanas/BG/Itihasas/Puranas unless and until they accord with the Vedas. So, quoting Ramajuna/Madhva/Shankara is irrelevant against Arya Samaj. So, if a Hindu is going to argue against Arya Samaj then one needs to understand where they are coming from. Unless a verse from the Vedas is provided which establishes that Varna is transmitted by heredity, one can not argue against Arya Samaj.

I do not have any issues with reconversion of lost Hindus back into Hinduism. I think it is the need of the hour actually, dont you? If not, why not?

[philosoraptor]

No, by all means. Change the religion to suit the need of the hour. Who am I protest? It's not as if tradition, smRiti, the upanishads, scholarly opinion, or the historical application of the same is relevant. Let's just believe whatever agniveer says. After all, the ends do justify the means, do they not?

[wundermonk]

No, by all means. Change the religion to suit the need of the hour. Who am I protest? It's not as if tradition, smRiti, the upanishads, scholarly opinion, or the historical application of the same is relevant. Let's just believe whatever agniveer says. After all, the ends do justify the means, do they not?

Dang...the "Smilies" do not have a "strawman" icon. So, fetched one from www. Here you go:



Please feel free to declare Arya Samaj non-Hindu though. Define who is a "Hindu" then.

Lets try this. Amongst the posters on HDF, based on what you can gauge from their posts, who are Hindus? Who are "traditional" Hindus, and who are NeoHindus? Are non-Indian converts here Hindus?

[philosoraptor]

And you say I'm knocking down a strawman? I never claimed that the Arya Samaj was not "Hindu." They are Hindu. Vivekananda was Hindu. Sai Baba was Hindu. Carvaka can be Hindu. Buddhists can be Hindu. Jainas can be Hindu. Even Osho can be Hindu if you want.

What that actually says about anything is another matter entirely. "Hinduism" and "Hindu" are just terms of convenience used to describe widely varying traditions and peoples with views which may or may be based on shAstra.

This is the Vaishnava forum, and the implicit claim by the OP (which I noticed you had no objection to) was that Ramanuja objected to caste divisions because he preached inclusiveness and compassion. This is false. He preached inclusiveness and compasion, but he still recognized varNAshrama-dharma and practiced it himself. This is what I have been trying to point out to you for some time now - varNAshrama-dharma based on heredity and compassion/inclusiveness are not mutually contradictory concepts.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste.

I am a Saiva. However I was reading what claimed to be a Ramanuja organization of the Sri Vaishnavas that only the Lord Who is Purushothaman that He is the only man, and all Vaishnavs of the Lord are women even if called men in this world, that all are women in relationship to Him. Men are just "so-called men" in the Kali Yug.

During the Kali Yug, should the Vaishnav rules for women also apply to men, that men should only chant the name of the Lord and should only read or learn any Veda only if they are married (in this case married if you will to the Lord, e.g. brahmachari devotee to the Lord or sanyasin)?

I mean no offense, I noticed this and it sounds very familiar to what some in ISKCON have said.

Om Namah Sivaya

[philosoraptor]

Namaste.

I am a Saiva. However I was reading what claimed to be a Ramanuja organization of the Sri Vaishnavas that only the Lord Who is Purushothaman that He is the only man, and all Vaishnavs of the Lord are women even if called men in this world, that all are women in relationship to Him. Men are just "so-called men" in the Kali Yug.

During the Kali Yug, should the Vaishnav rules for women also apply to men, that men should only chant the name of the Lord and should only read or learn any Veda only if they are married (in this case married if you will to the Lord, e.g. brahmachari devotee to the Lord or sanyasin)?

I mean no offense, I noticed this and it sounds very familiar to what some in ISKCON have said.

Om Namah Sivaya

Pranams,

No. Men and women still have to follow their respective dharmas. This isn't just what I read in scripture, but also what I have been told by learned Sri Vaishnavas.

The idea of The Lord as the only puruSha and all other entities as prakRiti is one that is also mentioned in ISKCON and other North Indian sampradayas, and often spoken of in a male/female context, with "male" meaning the "puruSha" or the only enjoyer, while "female" refers to that which is enjoyed by the puruSha. What this refers to is the enjoyer and they who are to be enjoyed. The concept is the same but expressed differently in Sri Vaishnavism. However, this has nothing to do with one's bodily identity, which is still the basis for prescribed duties.