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Thread: God did not create the universe: Hawking

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    God did not create the universe: Hawking

    In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
    He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God. He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

    Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

    What is the reaction of this forum ?

  2. Cool Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking


    जय श्री कृष्ण

    I haven't read about Hawking's book, so I don't know what did he mean. Hawking has his own to write, sometimes those scientists are right and sometimes they are wrong. If Hawking is rejecting Newton's theory it is same as someone among them is wrong, but Hawking haven't rejected Arybhatta's theory

    I will not use the word 'god', Hindus should use to describe

    Brahma is creator, Vishnu is protector, Shiv is destroyer

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    How does advaita followers react to this ?

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    only Advait ? There are also Dvait, Vishitdvait, Shuddhadvait, Dvaitadvait etc in Hinduism

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    Quote Originally Posted by PARAM View Post


    only Advait ? There are also Dvait, Vishitdvait, Shuddhadvait, Dvaitadvait etc in Hinduism
    Stand corrected

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    I haven't been much inclined to read general Science, so I haven't read Hawking. Yet some thoughts spring up in a common mind, on reading Hawking's statement: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

    • How does science explain 'nothing'? If it is 'nothing', how can physical laws, such as gravity, which act on matter exist therein? Even if the 'nothing' is 'something' where physical laws can exist, how did gravity create the particles of matter that evolved into the material universe?

    • If 'nothing' contained only all energy and no matter, in what was this 'nothing' contained? How and by what did the modulations in the energy current were made to apparently crystallize into particles of matter?

    • By what process do such ideas of physical science originate in the human mind? What forces, laws and matter are involved in their creation in mind? What makes the mind 'aware' that it is thinking and making conclusions about what it thinks? What or who exercises the control of thoughts and how?

    Physical science, IMO, can never to evolve a holistic view of the universe, within its own confines.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
    He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God.
    Okay first of all. How does gravity reason the spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing?

    Sorry but this doesnt make any sense to me.

    All I can imagine is that, when you look at the calculations, how the universe originated, what physical laws lead to the universe now from the earliest stage, then I can observe simply that, period.

    From "naught" to "this - material manifestation".

    But that doesnt reason how or why "this" has to be from "naught". All we are focusing and knowing about is "this" and not "naught".

    Are you going to study about "this-material manifestation" from "naught"? Then why is vice versa logical?

    He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."
    God does not have a "mind". We dont know the intelligence of God more now than before, or more so later simply because of science.

    What we would accomplish is unraveling, the mysteries of the universe. So we would only be conquering our own ignorance, not "discovering" anything about God.

    Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.
    huh? comments? where?

    do you mean like from another forum where you had seen this being posted?
    Last edited by Kumar_Das; 02 September 2010 at 01:38 PM.

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
    He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God. He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

    Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

    What is the reaction of this forum ?
    Well, we have to keep in mind that when someone like Hawking talks about "God," such as in his book "A Brief History of Time," he's sort of talking about a philosopher's God. When he says "then we should know the mind of God," he's just talking about our ability to understand the deep mysteries of the universe. I doubt Hawking believed in any conception of God when he wrote that.

    Anyway, I think Dr. Hawking's comments on God are more or less directed at a Christian audience. I doubt he knows enough about Hindu theology to speak intelligently on our beliefs. Indeed, we don't necessarily believe in the same sort of ex nihilo creation that Christians do (in fact I don't think Hinduism even speaks definitively on that issue). So I wouldn't take his writings about God as any sort of commentary on our religion.

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.
    Let me start off by saying that I have a great deal of respect for Hawking.

    Though I don't think it's quite what he meant, this statement as it is doesn't work, because if there is nothing, there is also no gravity, and therefore no means for something to come from nothing.

    I think what he's trying to say is that because of gravity, the universe can operate on its own. That's something I can agree with.

    Something cannot come from nothing. Logic dictates that.

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    Re: God did not create the universe: Hawking

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. -
    What is the reaction of this forum ?
    Namaste Kallol

    Thank you for bringing this up. Hawking in his own language is saying something, which i think, is not very alien to us (though the abstraction and intricate mathematics etc. will be beyond most of us). I am sure Stephen has enough reasons to conclude as he does. And I have same view as Sanjay has. In fact physicists are closest to Vedic knowledge.

    Apparently, religious people, especially the creationists, may take up issues. But It is interesting to note that Hawkings implies that there was the law before any manifestation.

    We call it 'Satyam (Truth) and Ritam (law)' that predates any manifestation. The truth and the law are the first division of the Supreme light. Thus we differ from Hawking on the point that the Will of the Supreme predates the Law also.

    Mahanarayana U.

    prathamo.anuvaakaH
    R^ita.n cha satya.n chaabhiiddhaattapaso.adhyajaayata .
    tato raatrirajaayata tataH samudro arNavaH .. 63..

    I-63: From the all-illuminating Supreme, by His resolve, the Right and the True were generated. From Him night and day were generated. And from Him again was generated the sea with different waters.

    trayovi.nsho.anuvaakaH .
    R^ita{\m+} satyaM paraM brahma purushha.n kR^ishhNapi~Ngalam.h .
    uurdhvareta.n viruupaaksha.n vishvaruupaaya vai namo namaH .. 1..

    XXIII-1: Supreme Brahman, in form of the True and the Right, has become Person of dark blue and reddish brown hue (umamahesvara), chaste and possessing uncommon eyes. Salutations to Him alone whose form is the universe.

    It is actually incredible to ponder that law pre-exists mass and that law, which is intangible knowledge, can give rise to tangible mass.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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