Originally Posted by
Surya Deva
Namaste,
Mr Hawkings is entitled to his view. I do not think we should become too preoccupied with what Hawking believes. The ex-nihilo hypothesis is common to Western science and religion. In Western religion god creates the universe out of nothing. In Western science the universe comes out of nothing.
Our ancient Hindu scientists knew that the notion of something coming out of nothing was completely illogical. None of the Darsanas accept this common Western fallacy. The law of cause and effect is central to every darsana(however, they approach cause and effect in different ways) If there is a effect, then there is definitely a cause as well. The Hindu scientists described three types of causes: material cause, efficient cause and instrumental cause. This mirrors the three conditions of knowledge: object of knowledge, knower and instrument of knowledge.
The material cause is what Hawking is dealing with. This is Prakriti and before Prakriti is manfiest she is avyaktam(undifferentiated) This is described in the Nasadiya suktam in the Rig Veda. In her avyakt state prakriti is a in state of pure potentiality. The gunas are in a state of complete equilbruim. Now, as prakriti is in a state of complete equilbruim, she is not capable herself of collapsing her own equilbruim. This collapse only takes place when purusha observes prakriti, as a result prakriti collapses and becomes vykatam and then through the actions of the gunas evolution of the cosmos begins(simultaneous evolution of the mental and physical universe) Thus purusha is the efficient cause. The instrumental cause are the devas which are the cosmic laws which guide the evolution process in order to maintain dharma. The first deva is Brahma(the creative principle)
Hawking has some idea about the material cause and some idea about the instrumental cause, but it is completely ignorant of the efficient cause which is the very first condition(Aristotle's unmoved mover: prime cause) needed to collapse the universe out of its potential state. In quantum mechanics exactly the same problem presents itself on the question of the collapse of the wavefunction. It is observed in the double slit experiment that the collapse seems to take place only upon observation. However, materialist scientists cannot accept this conclusion, so they posit that the collapse must take place prior to observation through hidden variables. However, despite their best efforts, every test of quantum mechanics has shown that the observer is required to collapse the wavefunction. It cannot collapse itself.
In summary: The universe did not just come out of nothing by itself. It was caused to come into being by purusha.
Namaste Surya
Your post is excellent and comes closest, IMO, to the structured knowledge of drishti shristi versus shristi drishti.
1. However consider the fact that under primeval situation, the being was not a being, since there would be none else. Under such condition, the being is not a being and nor a non being -- indefinable. Thus it would be, in a way, wrong to say that a being caused the being of Universe.
2. As per Nasadiya, Gods came later. So, Stephen is not entirely wrong when he says "God is not necessary for creation" And He probably means the God of christian concept.
3. Stephen does not propound ex-nihilo concept.
4. Also how will the understanding alter if we consider the following two?
- ajAtivAda
- Brahman is one whose all desires are fulfilled so why should He/It bring out a world?
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I am not providing any answer because i do not know either the truth or Stephen's mind. But I feel that he is close to ajAtivAda of vedanta.One who clings fast to Eternal Truth
Will attain Ultimate Truth Itself.
The strength of Rta, Eternal Order, is far reaching
It brings wisdom to those that pursue it.
Earth and Heaven owe their existence to Rta.
And the Supreme Powers yield their ambrosial milk,
their treasured contents,
In perfect obedience to the Lord of Eternal Existence.
(Rg Veda.IV.23.1):
Does Stephen appear to say something similar to the red highlighted portion?
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In my understanding, the immutable eternal has two products: satyam (the Lord of eternal existence) and ritam (the eternal way). The Earth and Heaven owe their existence to the Rta.
Om Namah Shivaya
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