Sikhism in its current state..........

[Harjas Kaur]

"who believes in One God"

Really? This One Supreme nirgun God manages quite well to work through many agencies in sarguna. In a strictly monotheistic philosophy how do you account for devatay such as Brahma and Maya? I'm curious to know. Guru Sahib writes about devatay and avtaray, yet, you claim Sikh is not supposed to believe in them, but believe only in ONE GOD like some Abrahamic creed. So why are they even in Gurbani if they are fake and do not exist or are in competition with the Singh Sabha invention of ONE MONOTHEISTIC GOD? Because this is a fundamentally flawed perspective achieved only by devaluing the clear concept of Nirguna which is Eka Parabrahmha who creates through Shabda Brahmha the mantras which create the pakriti and also devatay and avtaray. So clearly in this Gurbani teaching devatay and avtaray have roles to fulfill and are material manifestations and aspects of the One Divine.


ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
nirankaar aakaar oupaaeiaa ||
The Formless Lord created the universe of form.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
maaeiaa mohu hukam banaaeiaa ||
By the Hukam of His Command, He created attachment to Maya.

ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਸਭਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਦਾ ॥੧॥
aapae khael karae sabh karathaa sun saachaa mann vasaaeidhaa ||1||
The Creator Himself stages all the plays; hearing of the True Lord, enshrine Him in your mind. ||1||

ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥
maaeiaa maaee thrai gun parasooth jamaaeiaa ||
Maya, the mother, gave birth to the three gunas, the three qualities,

ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥
chaarae baedh brehamae no furamaaeiaa ||
and proclaimed the four Vedas to Brahma.

ਵਰ੍ਹੇ ਮਾਹ ਵਾਰ ਥਿਤੀ ਕਰਿ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੨॥
varhae maah vaar thhithee kar eis jag mehi sojhee paaeidhaa ||2||
Creating the years, months, days and dates, He infused intelligence into the world.
~SGGS Ji ang 1066
------------------

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh dheesai breham pasaar ||
The Gurmukh sees God pervading everywhere.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣੀਆਂ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh thrai guneeaaan bisathhaar ||
The Gurmukh knows that the universe is the extension of the three gunas, the three dispositions.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh naadh baedh beechaar ||
The Gurmukh reflects on the Sound-current of the Naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas.
~SGGS Ji ang 1270

[Harjas Kaur]

Kumar Das writes:

"Ironically for these so-called 'Dharmic' religions; Sikhism and Buddhism it has always been a norm to freely bash Hinduism in order to boost themselves."

I've really had it with you. There are POLITICAL and HISTORICAL divisions to take into consideration that are not based on the philosophical disagreements. The biggest cause of moderate Sikhs turning against loyalty to India and toward extremist preachers had first to do with MK Gandhi's pathetic appeasement of Jinnah's aggressive jihadi Muslim League and the utter trauma of Partition as a basic slaughter of Sikhs and theft of Sikh traditional homeland. And even after all this as many Sikhs were loyal and still had Gandhi's pictures garlanded on their walls, mobs in riot ran through their houses burning, looting, raping and setting on fire.

Sir, let me tell you, after trauma such as anti-Sikh riots under Rajiv Gandhi, a WHOLE can of worms opened up. And you cannot in fairness to truth or conscience IGNORE the responsibility Congress Party and even Indian Nation has had to play in negligently and brutally alienating Sikh community.

And despite all that, there are still proud Sikh Indian Nationalist heroes and soldiers and officers serving, should give you pause for respectful contemplation how beautiful and loyal is this wonderful religion called Sikh-ism. And how every Indian and every Hindu should fight to keep Sikh religion a respected and honored part of Sanatana Dharm and stop trying to alienate it further to the disgrace of all.

Anti-Sikh riots, New Delhi 1984.







Watch this film before you speak another word against Sikhism on this forum.

Amu part 9

If your goal is to heal these wounds, you're going to have to do better. In fact, we should all do better. If we have no respect for ourselves whose heritage is Sanatana Dharm how can we expect anyone else in the world to respect us? We've been nefariously pitched as enemies against each other for far too long.

[Believer]

There are only two things that make me scream. The first one is the Aryan invasion theory and the second is the line about Sikhism drawing on both Hinduism and Islam.

How many times does it have to be repeated that both are false. One of the two items pops up every so often. I am at my wits end to emphasize that they are both wrong and should be purged from your lovely Hindu heads. Sometimes I feel like people do it on purpose to traumatize me. Nah! people here can't be that sadistic. So, please don't torture me any more by repeating these falsehoods. Both statements demean and degrade our culture/religion/sanskriti and indeed the whole fabric of what it means to be a Hindu.

>>> Getting off the soap box

[darshansingh]

deleted

[dogra]

Kumar Das writes:



Sir, let me tell you, after trauma such as anti-Sikh riots under Rajiv Gandhi, a WHOLE can of worms opened up. And you cannot in fairness to truth or conscience IGNORE the responsibility Congress Party and even Indian Nation has had to play in negligently and brutally alienating Sikh community.

And despite all that, there are still proud Sikh Indian Nationalist heroes and soldiers and officers serving, should give you pause for respectful contemplation how beautiful and loyal is this wonderful religion called Sikh-ism. And how every Indian and every Hindu should fight to keep Sikh religion a respected and honored part of Sanatana Dharm and stop trying to alienate it further to the disgrace of all.

Indeed, the butchers of the genocide 1984 need bringing to justice, it is an outrage that hardly any have not been, there are our fellow brother and sisters, likewise Gujurat as well, India has King Asokas wheel Asokas edicts were that of humanity.

[atanu]

I am not sure, how you would label me. I am a sikh without the labels. My guru is Guru Granth Sahib.

1. I, and most most sikhs, don't believe your first statement. Guru Granth Sahib has bani of 14 bhagats and many poets, out of which 11 were born hindus. Some of these bhagats were at sometime vaishnav like Ramanandji.----

2. Gurbani says "There is one God, formless....".

3. To consider one's scriptures great doesn't mean we put others' scriptures down. e.g. When we sing "Sare Jahaan se Achha ...", it doesn't mean that rest of the world is not "Achha"

Namaste Singh Sahib

Thank you for a well reasoned nice informative post, and especially the part highlighted with blue. I think the tendency to put down others' scriptures/dharma/acts as inferior stems from ignorance/unbelief of one's own scripture.

How many act with full faith on scripture as below, which is the essence of all scripture.


Page 475. What sort of service is this, by which the fear of the Lord Master does not depart? O Nanak, he alone is called a servant, who merges with the Lord Master. || 2 || PAUREE: O Nanak, the Lord's limits cannot be known; He has no end or limitation. He Himself creates, and then He Himself destroys. Some have chains around their necks, while some ride on many horses. He Himself acts, and He Himself causes us to act. Unto whom should I complain? O Nanak, the One who created the creation - He Himself takes care of it. || 23 ||
..............

Vedanta also teaches that Lord Master Himself is also the divine Man called the World. Then why the fear of the Lord master?

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya