Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 47

Thread: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    815
    Rep Power
    453

    Question Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Where is the TRUTH ?

    Should we understand both or only Brahman ?


    love and best wishes

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2009
    Posts
    623
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Namasté Kallol
    I would say that Brahman includes Maya. Maya is a creation of Brahman and in Vedanta, creation and creator are not separable.

    The Truth is that there is nothing really separate from Brahman. All is Brahman. This Truth can be known when maya is “put in to its place” by our understanding. When one knows oneself as Brahman, then everything, including maya, is understood clearly and is powerless to veil the Truth.

    A post thought is that I am not comfortable using the world "God" to describe Brahman. "God" normally implies a supreme being who exists seperately from His creation. This idea of God can result in negative misunderstanding if we confirm that we are Brahman (or God) in accordance to the Upanishads. In other words to say Brahman is God isn't wrong, but the concept that God has no limitations cannot be applied easily if we say "Aham Brahmanasi" as we also know ourselves to be limited as human beings. Brahman is beyond any idea of God. The idea of God helps us to understand Brahman, but falls short of Self-realisation.

    I look forward to reading your and others ideas and replies to your questions
    Last edited by Onkara; 06 October 2010 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Added a post thought on the word "God"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Age
    35
    Posts
    839
    Rep Power
    1020

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Yeah, I'm not sure how this works either. On the one hand I tend to think of Brahman as Supreme Reality, and different from what we would call Bhagavan, or God. But I do vaguely recall reading stories of Hindu Gods talking to Brahman as though he were God. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? If not, perhaps I'll try to dig these stories up.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Here is one view you may wish to entertain:

    yatsattatparamārthohi paramārthastataḥ śivaḥ
    That which is Existence (sattā) is the highest (param) Reality, the Universe is of the nature of that Reality, therefore everything is śivaḥ

    This is from abhinavagupta's work parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa. It is a śloka where he gives praise to anuttara ( the Supreme, unsurpassable).

    He recognizes yatsaḥ sarvam- from whom proceeds all, and yasmin sarvam - in whom resides all - this is anuttara and this is śiva
    says abhinavagupta-ji.

    If we look at śiva's name śi शि means auspiciousness, good fortune; peace composure, calm. Now this word śiva has its root in śī which means
    'in whom all things lie' as śī is also to lie down, rest, repose.
    Within śiva all resides - every thing is contained therein ( even this māyā) . Within śiva is also
    this notion of śvi meaning to swell much, to expand, grow.

    Consider the connection to or with brahman as the following: brahman is rooted in bṛh¹ ( some may write brih) meaning to grow, expand.
    We ( I ) can then make the connection that śvi = bṛh = brahman = śiva.

    Many take the liberty of saying śiva is the quality of destruction. When all creation ends it is destroyed by śiva. This I see differently.
    When all of creation ( all tattva, all essential matter and non-matter) has finished its purpose, then saṃhāra¹ (withdrawal) occurs. Some call this saṃhṛti -
    conclusion, end, finish. Yet what occurs is the universe once again is drawn back into śiva. Then it occurs again there is sṛṣṭi - letting go, expansion bṛh and
    śvi once more take place.


    Some say śiva is cideva bhagavatī or divine consciousness alone. I can see this . Yet this consciousness still has this Self-referral property - it knows of itSelf.
    From this knowing there is spanda, this vibration within itSelf that brings forth creation. Not the creation of a potter and making a pot, but that of emission
    from within Himself say the wise. Nothing is to be ~assembled~ .

    Why do I mention this? There are some that think brahman is śānta-brahman. This means tranquil, undisturbed, and implies there is no vibration within (spanda)
    and that other forces must be present to bring about the manifestation of the universe. In this case ( of this definition) then brahman does not = śiva.

    Within śiva 36 tattva ( That-ness) is recognized. This explains sṛṣṭi - letting go, manifestation (~creation~) in its Fullness. This māyā is there also. In ignorance
    this māyā is a constraint. In clarity of mind and being possessed of the Self, this māyā is then the play and display of
    śakti.


    praṇām

    words
    • bṛh can also be written bṛṃh or vṛh or vṛṃh; I offer the 2nd derivation of bṛh in my post above - to expand, increase, grow strong.
    • saṃhāra - bringing back in; contraction.
    Last edited by yajvan; 06 October 2010 at 01:52 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    There are many explaniations from different authorities and communities for the question put forward. However I would like to explain the meaning in my own words of understanding.

    The word Brahman is made of two words Brah and man which means direction and mind. To make it more straight it stands for direction of mind, and direction of mind is maya with no clue on how mind gets its thought and ideas and from where hence it is illusion or maya which cannot be seen by us.

    Even person is requested to understand and focus on the direction of mind for better living and this is why vedas came to existence to discribed the science on how to read the direction of minds.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    815
    Rep Power
    453

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Thanks Snip and Yajvanji for thowing some light on this.

    Before I put my views, I would like to ensure my understanding of Brahman and Maya.

    Is Brahman the same as Paraprakriti or Purusha or Chit (consciousness) ?

    Is Maya the same as Aparaprakriti or Prakriti or achit (inert) ?

    I understand that these describes the same and are different names of the same "entity". (entity is only a pointer and a definition).

    These names are used in different upanishads, Gita and vedas.

    Is my understanding correct ?

    Love and best wishes

  7. #7
    Join Date
    March 2010
    Location
    Bangalore, India.
    Age
    26
    Posts
    208
    Rep Power
    0

    Talking Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Where is the TRUTH ?

    Should we understand both or only Brahman ?


    love and best wishes
    'Where is the truth?'
    I searched and searched, but could not find.
    'Where is everlasting stable peace and happiness?'
    I searched and searched, but could not find.
    'Where am I?'
    I searched and searched, but got more lost.

    The problem is, I've searched blindfolded the wrong place, without a stick.
    Now I know where to look for. I must now look within this intellect, deep down within this outer me. But I need a stick, a guru.... Where o' where is the guru. He too is within me. The Lord is my guru. He will guide me. I should worry no more.

    You asked, is only Purusha or Shiva God, or Shiva+Maya or Purusha+Prakriti is god. I ask you,
    Do you think Maya and the Pashupathi are completely 2 different entitites? How is it that you can make a differential mark between Shiva and Shive and say they are completely 2 different entities? I do not understand the question.... Will someone explain it to me? I always thought they were 'one.' Unified with true love and undifferentiable. Please make me understand how they are 2 beings and not 1 being seeming 2. Understanding both or one was the question. I never knew there was '2' in the first place. Nope, my dumb brain fails to get that point. First we need to know whether they are 1 or 2, only then can we say whether Shiva is god or Shiva+Shakti = God.
    Oh ShivaShaktyaikya roopini,
    Oh Shivaa,
    Oh Parameshwari,
    Ambaa, Mother!
    Tell me! Tell me, Are you and father 2 different beings? Or did you lie to me.
    Did you lie to your innocent child? Did you? Well, did you mother?
    I don't know who I am, nor what I am.
    I don't know what I need to know.
    I don't know who you are, nor what you are.
    All I know is that you love me, Oh Sarvathma.
    Lead me on the righteous path, so that I may reach you.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Some say śiva is cideva bhagavatī or divine consciousness alone.
    With this view, there also is the understanding that the Lord, the Supreme is bhagavān viśvaśarira . That is, He, śiva (bhagavān) is universe-bodied (viśvaśarira). That is why in the last post I mentioned that the manifestation of the universe comes from Him - sṛṣṭi - letting go, the manifestation from Himself. He needn't go to some pantry for ingredients to create the universe , it is He already.


    So, with this notion as the truth ( as it appears in the āgama-s) the portion that is māyā is His māyā-śakti that makes us ( the human being) apprear as contracted, as limited Being. Constrained
    by time-space-cause. Every thing in this creation, this emmision (sṛṣṭi) is none other then bhagavān viśvaśarira. How can it be otherwise? Hence coming to the realization of this in mind-body-understanding-intellect and spirit is mokśa. It is the re-recognition of who one really is.

    This is samāveśa - entering into one's own nature. Some call this yoga, union with one owns Being. It is coming home (as my teacher has put it).

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast viprava

    Quote Originally Posted by viprava View Post
    The word Brahman is made of two words Brah and man which means direction and mind. To make it more straight it stands for direction of mind, and direction of mind is maya with no clue on how mind gets its thought and ideas and from where hence it is illusion or maya which cannot be seen by us.
    Thank you for your posts and ideas...

    If we consider brah + man I can see how man can perhaps be manas, mind. To get to brah = direction I have to do some transposing to get there and work with the roots of this word:

    If I consider the phoneme brah I am lead to bhrū ; this is rooted in bhram which is to move round , circulate , revolve ; to drive through.

    If you are of the opinion that this motion 'to move round , circulate , revolve ; to drive through' is equal to 'direction', then I see how
    you can come to the conclusion to 'drive the mind'.

    Now here is the part I'd like your opinion on. You mention the following:
    with no clue on how mind gets its thought and ideas and from where hence it is illusion or maya which cannot be seen by us.


    If we have no clue, and all is illusion, then how do we even know this māyā even exists?


    praṇām

    words
    • man is a from of 'mad' which is to gladden , exhilarate , intoxicate , animate , inspire ;
      • Yet if 'man' is used then we have a definiton of
        'to think of ' as in prayer or ' to remember , meditate on' , and one can make an assumption this is done by manas.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    815
    Rep Power
    453

    Re: Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

    Dear Yajvanji,

    I cannot agree more on your view and this is what it is. The purpose of starting this thread is slightly different.

    The popular notion of getting aligned to God or Brahman for permanent settlement has been proposed in all scriptures. On one side we say maya is out of Brahman and then we say maya is not the one which we can align with. Again we say Brahman is permanent attributeless, beyond percepption, etc, etc. Then we say maya is out of brahman, which is ever changing, full of attributes, etc.

    People get confused and I am sure there will be many in this forum also. The purpse is to bring clarity through the knowledgeable contributors.

    How is maya and brahman related to each other ? Krishna has said of higher and lower nature. How do we relate these ?

    Which part of brahman I should align with (if maya is out of brahman) ?

    love and best wishes

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •