Is Brahman God ? or Brahman + Maya combined is God ?

[smaranam]

Brahman reflected upon the mirror of Maya is God, while many Dvaitins and Vishishtadvaitins would surely disagree with me.

Some people project their egos in the cosmos and see it as God, and worship Him/Her, and this may work for some people, but personally I would choose Gyana (knowledge) over Bhakti (devotion).

Namaste

This may be the case with a follower of monism, not with a bhakta of BhagvAn.

A bhakta comes face to face with God, not their own ego. The Supreme God Himself gives Darshan, association, gives Himself to the devotee.
If you don't want to know that is fine, but please don't speculate.

Hare KRshNa

[smaranam]

P.S. : Just wondering. Why can't people with an advaita mindset (like the OP) who are only interested in advaita, ask such questions in Advaita folders ?

What is the purpose of a common folder called "Uttara" ? Is kevala-advaita uttara ?

praNAm

[NayaSurya]

Brahman reflected upon the mirror of Maya is God, while many Dvaitins and Vishishtadvaitins would surely disagree with me.

There is no right or wrong thing to do. Some people project their egos in the cosmos and see it as God, and worship Him/Her, and this may work for some people, but personally I would choose Gyana (knowledge) over Bhakti (devotion). I think it would be good to know about your traditions, and learn the examples set by the deities in our pantheon. However, at the end of it all, want neither this nor that, because the knowledge of Brahman is never attainable when you want Its knowledge.

Well also count fools such as myself, a dog... into the list in disagreement with this generalization and personal judgment you have made above.

It is also foolish to think devotion/bhakti comes without having knowledge...

That it is just some ignorant one who would choose such a thing...why must one choose between devotion and being intelligent with knowledge?

At the end of the day both of these groups you speak of above are longing for the very same thing.

Beloved.

The orange is sweet...the orange is round...the orange is a fruit...the orange is food. The orange is best, the orange is worst!

The orange is an orange! and everything else too!

For the Love of God, is it only the fool who recognizes the lack of a difference here?

Bhakti is service in the light of Truth. Even typing out this right now is service. A simple one, but a service none the less.

Some people project their egos onto others and try to make the truths they have found the concrete "truth" for all.

...and if anyone disagrees...they lable them as "full of ego"...or "ignorant" (lack of knowledge).

We are here...there has to be a reason for this...it can not just be a drama to be played...some of us here suffer...really suffer. I don't want to hear that suffering is just a point of perspective and if you take the magic pill, all suffering goes away.

Because I got that pill...swallowed it whole...and have moved beyond suffering...yet from this hill I see a vast ocean of suffering is still occuring.

and there is a big reason for that...some of us have many miles to travel before we are clean and clear enough of this karma to realize what we truly are.

Beloved gave each of us a life, a personality and a task. I do not believe He will one day just take that away and suck us back into the abyss of Bliss. Unless we request it.

Some say we are made of Beloved...and some say we are made by Beloved.

and I say...Both are correct.

Both both...say it again...both!

But, I am here to say, whatever Truth you have found in this realm is yours to hold, as I hold these Truths I wrote above as my own...and I will not come to try to yank yours out of your hand and replace them with my own. However, I will come as I did tonight to make sure when a young one, new to SD come to read here that they do not get a wrong idea and think bhakti is a path without knowledge.

There's a reason we have different perspectives, we are the many voices...and we must allow each of them to sing in their own way.

[devotee]

Namaste iamfact,

Brahman reflected upon the mirror of Maya is God,

That is correct as per Advaita.

Some people project their egos in the cosmos and see it as God, and worship Him/Her

I don't agree with it. Any scriptural support for this assertion which can hurt the sentiments of many here ? How can you call God as projection of one's ego ??

Namaste NayaSurya,

Thanks for a very good post !

OM

[devotee]

P.S. : Just wondering. Why can't people with an advaita mindset (like the OP) who are only interested in advaita, ask such questions in Advaita folders ?

What is the purpose of a common folder called "Uttara" ? Is kevala-advaita uttara ?

Namaste Smaranam,

It was decided that one should not write anything in Vaishnava forum anything hurting Vaishnavas' sentiments even if that may be correct from Advaita or any other point of view. Similarly, it was also agreed that in Advaita forum, anything hurting the sentiments of Advaitin will not be posted even though it may be correct from the point of view of some other paths.

However, "Uttara" doesn't come into any of such categories. It is for higher level discussion on Dharma & scriptural references which was started by Yajvan. Now, discussions in Uttara somehow converge towards Advaitic thinking ... but it is certainly not necessary. There can be many types of DhArmic debates in that folder which would fall into that non-Advaitic category.

I am slightly perplexed by sudden changed stance in your posts here. Why are you becoming so intolerant of Advaita ? Why should so-called Advaitins be forced to write only in Advaita section and forbidden to write in any other forums ... when, it appears from your post that, you don't recommend any such binding on the Vaishnavas, Shaivas, ShAktas etc. ? Why this sudden animosity towards Advaita ? What have you discovered so obnoxious about Advaita recently which has changed your way of thinking ... I am curious to know.

OM

[kallol]

Dear Nayasurya,

Thanks for your beautiful post.

This thread is enough saturated with so much of knowledge. One has to only go through all posts.

@smaranam

Please allow us also to tread this beatiful path.

As the nature is diverse from micro PoV but highly aligned from macro PoV, same are we. It is the different way we perceive the Supreme towards the same objective of eternal bliss.

@iamfact

Bhakti is the base for right karma and jnana. The bhakti only increases as we move along.

[smaranam]

Namaste Smaranam,

However, "Uttara" doesn't come into any of such categories. It is for higher level discussion on Dharma & scriptural references

Namaste Devoteeji

Then there should be an Uttara under each philosophy. Because, this very existence of ONE Uttara assumes that all SD paths converge into the same thinking. Classic example is this thread - the OP assumed that the God with infinite transcendental qualities (NirguN as in beyond material guNas) being a projection of Maya in impersonal attributeless Brahman is unanimous to all SD paths. It may be unanimous with keval-advaita, Kashmiri Shaiva and all other monistic Shaiva, Shakta paths. That is not the complete list.

Let us face it. We cannot have a common Uttara technically.

VaishNavs discuss their esoteric things in VaishNav, although not all of it can be discussed in forums.

Now, discussions in Uttara somehow converge towards Advaitic thinking ...

hmm..

praNAm

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

[smaranam]

@smaranam

Please allow us also to tread this beatiful path.

As the nature is diverse from micro PoV but highly aligned from macro PoV, same are we. It is the different way we perceive the Supreme towards the same objective of eternal bliss.

Namaste Kallolji

I request you to not assume that the ultimate is how kevala advaita describes it.

All i am saying is this thread should have been under Advaita or Uttara of Advaita. You can certainly tread it there ?

praNAm

[kallol]

Namaste Kallolji

I request you to follow what you just said (in blue), and not assume that the ultimate is how kevala advaita describes it.

All i am saying is this thread should have been under Advaita or Uttara of Advaita. You can certainly tread it there ?

praNAm

Who is to say that his way is the right way. I feel at home in certain ways which might be inclining towards Advaita. It is only out my analysis from my very childhood.

Again it is not out of any books, as I read anything hardly. Now a days I hear discourses on Gita and now Upanishads on CDs.

Now with this background, how should I define myself - Advaita (I hardly have read anything on that) or dvaita (again I have not read anything on that). I frequent ISCKON and Ramakrishna Mutt along with my family - but not for any discourses.

I pray to God as if He is a person up in the sky. I do deep analysis and find that all the system is One. So some are tradition, some are knowledge. Where do I belong ?

Do I have to choose one path ?

It is good that you have clarity on where do you belong. But I believe most do not.

We are not yet as blessed as some of you are.

[smaranam]

We are not yet as blessed

No, please don't say that. Parameshwar is always ready to bless. It is a shower, downpour of blessings. We simply have to ask.

We are all learning... and sorry if i sounded rude, didn't mean to. Simply trying to sort apples and oranges to make things clear-cut.


_/\_ Hare KRshNa