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Thread: Hallelujah Hindus!

  1. #21

    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by NetiNeti View Post
    I do not attempt to redefine Christianity, I simply look at the good contained within the faith and make sure to give it credit and reverence.
    To what end and purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by NetiNeti
    As a student of Vedanta I simply see Universalism as an aspect of non-dualism. Since all is Brahma then all is within Brahma and all is created by Brahma. No aspect of the universe is with out his authorship.
    Non-dualism may be viewed as speculations into the ultimate nature of reality by agnostics or direct expereinces into the "absolute" nature consciousness by believers. In one case, it is just a theory and in the later, an experience to be sought in samadhi. But in neither case it is a radical generalization about the society or the problems of this world.

    Universalism on the other hand is precisely a radical generalization of reality, more precisely its religions. It may be a desparate attempt to superimpose the theory non-duality into the harsh realities of the world, for the gap may seem to big to have a peaceful conscience.

    These are usual problems with partial dogmas and radical ideologies. They fail to explain the many faced, irreducibly complex and beautiful world we live in, and in retaliation we make every endevour to reshape the world according to our dogmas. How egoistic of the puny human to dictate nature according to his whimses! It is exactly this, whether it is Islamic Jehad to establish the barbaric sharia accross the world, or universalist zeal to see equals or goods in every religion.

    A true non-dualists will accept the evil when he sees good in the world, as one cannot exist without the other, and make efforts to go past either of these qualities into the direct non-dual experience in samadhi.

    Acknowledging the good but ignoring to recognize the existence of evil is simply dumb. Evil will not go away, if you** like good too much, nature precisely throw evil in your face, to wake you up from this delusion of duality! But if in a tamasic state you just continue to hypnotise yourself with universalist dogma, deny the existence of evil and just want to see the good in everything because you feel vulnerable and unsure of your beliefs and dogmas and yourself in the face of harsh reality - then well you have precisely missed the boat of the famed non-duality and its direct experience.
    **you refers to a generic universalist

    Who am I to Judge other faiths that may be as valid as mine? My master dabbled in all faiths and saw not that they were equal but that they lead to the same place. Do I believe our Dharma to be the best and most fulfilling path? Yes. Is it the only path? I believe not.
    And this type of meaningless blabber gets me worked up.

    Are people here judging religions out of a vocation? Do you think its because we derive great pleasure and enlightenment out of judging other religions? Or could it is because we see a threat, not to our own bodies (which I know will be the only occation when an universalist might get up from his/her ass), but to our society, culture and right now to entire humanity? I think none who find it necessary to be critical of Islamofascism or the catholic horror shows, do it from an internal need to judge others. Followers of any true spirituality (not external decorum) possibly cannot share this trait of the desert god and his followers.

    This thread also seems to issue a distaste for the Ramakrishna order. It seems like there is some equation that combines universalism with western Hindus. My master, who teaches of universalism, was fully Indian and trained by Totipuri, who was a initiate of Dashanami Sampradaya, the direct lineage of Adi Shankara.
    No no, universalism has had both Indian and western promoters. Its far from completely western, though western idealism may have an impact. Some of us are not afraid to point out wrong doings of certain historical personalities who now become demi-gods or even gods to the masses. This forum has witnessed the amount of hate it sometimes draws from the non hating universalists.

    Universalism is truly just the acknowledgment that all is equally an illusion and the only truth is Brahma.
    No its just a radical generalization, a desparate superimposition of a theory which is not yet in the experience of these souls (and will never be, sorry), on to this beautiful world.

    An attempt to reshape the world (aliebit more doctrinally) much like the Jehadi barbarians.
    Last edited by sm78; 16 October 2010 at 02:12 AM.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Must.... resist... posting... in....this... thread..

    Note to self: Take deep breaths and count to 30...

    AUM....

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    A true non-dualists will accept the evil when he sees good in the world, as one cannot exist without the other, and make efforts to go past either of these qualities into the direct non-dual experience in samadhi.
    Simply brilliant!

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    Must.... resist... posting... in....this... thread..

    Note to self: Take deep breaths and count to 30...

    AUM....
    Vannakkam TTA: Shucks! What this place needs is a private thread titled 'TTA's rants' where only people who appreciate the humour in excessive ranting have special passwords to go view. I like the grains of truth AND the melodrama.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Yes, I vote for a rant from TTA.

    Why did you think I opened this thread.

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    IF TTA wishes to express his views and knows that they may be a bit 'challanging' or agressive, then perhaps the jalpa folder may just suit his needs.

    It can be found here:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6420

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam TTA: Shucks! What this place needs is a private thread titled 'TTA's rants' where only people who appreciate the humour in excessive ranting have special passwords to go view. I like the grains of truth AND the melodrama.

    Aum Namasivaya
    EM,

    LOL, thanks for that. I had a chuckle.

    Regarding the article, I had to read it twice to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

    It obviously points to the Vedanta and SRF societies that revere jesus; most of the members of those societies are westerners! No surprise there.

    And, if they get their jollies praying to jesus, who cares. I just find it really awkward that traditional Hindus, from India, put jesus on the same pedestal as the other deities. I believe this is a result of christian-centric education and this Radical Universalism. I wonder if they would do the same for muhammad(?).

    Namaskar.

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by NayaSurya View Post
    This is the main reason I allow my children to be a tree in the holiday pageant, and they have a cupcake and koolaid during the holiday parties. I make vegetarian cranberry noels for those parties. My children will never sit in the hallway.

    I have to raise them strong enough to know that the sleepers will try to convince them that they are the crazy ones for worshiping the "Blue guy".

    If they are strong...no amount of carols will change the truth which has sprung into bloom within their hearts.

    So they smile and accept the token stocking stuffed with crayons and candy from their classmates and it's "Happy Holly Days" for all.
    Hello Naya Surya...

    It's a very delicate situation we live here in the west.

    We chose the path of dharma but we live in a strongly adharmic society. This dualism still really affects me, but I think it's an importat test for ourselves.

    Satyameva Jayate.

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    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    I just find it really awkward that traditional Hindus, from India, put jesus on the same pedestal as the other deities. I believe this is a result of christian-centric education and this Radical Universalism. I wonder if they would do the same for muhammad(?).
    Shush!
    Don't give them Universalists any more ideas. They just might do it!
    Their favorite mantra is, All paths lead to...........blah blah blah.
    Last edited by Believer; 29 November 2010 at 07:33 PM.

  10. #30

    Re: Hindus for Jesus - Stephen Prothero

    Quote Originally Posted by NayaSurya View Post

    Add to this my love of Santa, I openly admit I love the children's holy spirit of giving called Clause. Not this commercialized version with the newest Xbox tucked under his arm...but the being who loves children despite race, religion or location.

    So I am a Santaphile, always have been. I am the acting Santa in my home so I know the job well.

    Here we sing non christian carols like rudolph the red nosed reindeer, frosty the snow man, jingle bells... I'll be home for christmas.

    Because I simply do not believe jesus ever lived...he's some sort of harry potter for the christians. Give humanity 400 years or so and they will begin digging up all these copies of harry potter in our own ruins and they will immediately assume it's some mystic text which was long ago forgotten.

    It's the way of our world.


    I make holiday cookies, we open presents...all while Beloved Shivaya watches us from the wall above. Vishnu, Shiva...all on the center table in my meditation room. They will not move aside for the holiday tree.

    I won't lie, I wish I could trash the tree...and this whole tradition my family had adopted when my GG Grandmother was forced to convert.

    It's hard. But, I think about Santa, and his love of children and it keeps me going.

    This year, I would like to go to the Hindu Temple on Xmas eve with all my children. It's my goal. They seem very up to this as they also do not believe in jesus. The holiday is the holiday and "happy holly days" suffices.

    I remember as a child the jehova's witnesses would be sent out into the hallway on Halloween and xmas...even valentine's day. It was very sad to me, I was a godless child by then...not christian and did not yet know Beloved Shivaya's name. I would go out into the hallway and sit with them. We would talk about anything but the party going on inside.

    Years later, those girls are still my friends...they both left the JW church oddly enough.

    Perhaps it started on that long ago hallway, when the children were shown compassion despite their parents choice to outcast them to the hallway. Perhaps it was these moments in the hallway which made them doubt their parents all the more?

    This is the main reason I allow my children to be a tree in the holiday pageant, and they have a cupcake and koolaid during the holiday parties. I make vegetarian cranberry noels for those parties. My children will never sit in the hallway.

    I have to raise them strong enough to know that the sleepers will try to convince them that they are the crazy ones for worshiping the "Blue guy".

    If they are strong...no amount of carols will change the truth which has sprung into bloom within their hearts.

    So they smile and accept the token stocking stuffed with crayons and candy from their classmates and it's "Happy Holly Days" for all.
    I really like what you wrote.

    Personally I love Christmas. I have always celebrated it secularly as do most Swedes. The word Christ or Jesus is not even in the Swedish word for Christmas, so the religious part of it have never been part of it for me.
    But Santa Clause, the Gnomes, Christmas decorations and Christmas Tree, getting together with family and exchanging gifts I love. And of course all the chocolate!
    I also like the Christmas songs, religious or not.


    My Ashram welcomes people of all faiths, our gurus aim was East West Unity and we have community events for several holidays that are not Hindu even though our religious tradition and our rituals are Hindu.

    So Im all for universalism and respecting all faiths, and I understand that all faiths lead to the same place.
    Especially if you look behind all the cultural stuff behind religions, youll find that there are a lot of similar things.

    When it comes to the religious part about embracing Christ in daily Hindu rituals I feel a little different. Its not really for me.
    Not really sure why we would want to worship him in our temples.
    Acknowledging Christianity as a valid path yes, but not embrace Christian principles.

    There are several things within Christianity that I really dont agree with, several things that are contradictory and exclusionary and they go against Hindu teachings of acceptance and understanding.

    So Im not sure how to be tolerant to something that I dont agree with?

    Maya

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