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Thread: Idol worshipping

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    Idol worshipping

    Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal? People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like symbol? People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous money on jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be worshipping . Even catholics worship idol Mary! Worshipping just the Cross is equally bad, real christ followers do not do that. There appears onething good in Islam that is not having an idol but its very religiousness that I cannot stand. Care to comment?

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal? People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like symbol?
    Namaste.
    Hindus worship statues because Hindu religion accept the statues worshipping.
    And God Him-self requests His devotes to worship His statues and symbols.
    Now I will quote the whole chapter 27 of Bhagavata Purana.In this chapter Lord Krishna/Vishnu is talking to His friend Uddhava.
    By http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/down...m-canto11.html
    Chapter 27

    On Respecting the Form of God

    (1) S'rī Uddhava said: 'Please explain the yoga of the service of You as a deity, o Master; who is of that worship, to what form is one of worship and in what manner does one worship You, o Master of the Sātvatas [see also mūrti and 11.3: 48-55]? (2) The sages Nārada, Bhagavān Vyāsa and my preceptor the son of Angirā [Brihaspati] repeatedly say that there is nothing more conducive to welfare. (3-4) From Your lotus mouth emanated that of which the great lord unborn spoke to his sons headed by Bhrigu, to the goddess [Pārvatī] and the great lord S'iva [see B.G. 3: 9-10]; this [working for the purpose of sacrifice] indeed approved by all classes and spiritual orders of society, I think, is the most fortunate way for [even, or to deal with] women and the working class, o Magnanimous One. (5) O Lord with the Lotus Eyes, please, o Controller of All Controllers in the Universe, speak to your bhakta so full of attachment of the means of liberation from the being bound to karma.'

    (6) The Supreme Lord said: 'There is indeed no end to the innumerable prescriptions for acting in yoga [see e.g. B.G. 1-6]; so, Uddhava, let me in brief explain it nicely one step at a time. (7) One should properly be of worship by choosing for one of the three kinds of processes to sacrifice: to the three of the Veda, the explanatory literatures [tantras like the pańcarātra] and a combination of them. (8) Please hear with faith in what way a person, who to the for him relevant sacred precepts[*] achieved the status of a second birth, with devotion should be of worship for Me. (9) With the necessary material must he, connected in bhakti, free from ulterior motives worship Me, his worshipable guru, in an image, an altar, a fire, the sun, the water or in the twiceborn heart itself [**]. (10) To the two kinds of purification one should first should bathe and brush one's teeth and secondly bathe in mantras with the application of clay and such [see tilaka, kavaca and 6.8: 3-10]. (11) Of ceremonial respect and such at the three junctures of the day performing duties as recommended by the Vedas [see also 11.14: 35], should he who is perfectly fixed in his determination by these activities perform My ritual worship [pūjā] that eradicates the karma.

    (12) The figure is remembered in eight different ways: in stone, wood, metal, smearable substances [like clay], being painted, in sand, in jewels and as an image kept in the mind. (13) The individual form thus of two varieties - subject and not subject to change - does, in a temple installed for permanent, o Uddhava, not have to be called forth (āvādana) or sent away (udvāsa). (14) Temporarily installed is that optional, but assigned a fixed place [as in sand] do these two occur; not of a smearable substance [or of paint or wood] is it washed but in other cases it is cleansed without water. (15) There is My worship of the different forms with excellent paraphernalia and the worship of a devotee free from material desire using whatever that's readily available, as well as certainly the worship in the heart by what was mentally conceived.

    (16-18) Customary bathing and decorating is most appreciated for an idol [in the temple], Uddhava, for an altar is that an exercise of respect in mantra's [tattva-vinyāsa] and for the fire are oblations [of sesame, barley etc.] drenched in ghee considered the best. For the sun is that a respectful greeting with a meditation in āsanas [see sūrya-namskar] and for the water are offerings of water and such most dear. If even but some water by My bhakta presented with faith is most dear [to Me, see also B.G. 9: 26], then how much more would foodstuffs, flowers, lamps, fragrances and incense mean; but the many that is being offered by non-devotees will not bring about My satisfaction [see also B.G. 16]. (19) Being clean, having collected the necessary items, with the blades [of kus'a] of the seat that was arranged to the east, and sitting down facing the east or the north, or else directly facing the deity, should he then be of worship [compare 1.19: 17, 4.24: 10, 8.9: 14-15]. (20) Chanting mantra's and assigning them to his own and to My deity body should he with his hand wipe clean [the altar and deity] and properly prepare the sacred pot and vessel for sprinkling the water. (21) With the water of the vessel sprinkling the area of the deity, the utensils and his own body, should he next get ready three vessels with water and arrange the necessary auspicious items available [like flowers, grains, blades of grass, sesame seeds etc., see ***]. (22) The three vessels there with water for His feet [pādya], His hands [arghya], and His mouth [ācamana] should the worshiper then purify with the mantra's for [respectively] the heart [hridayāya namah], the head [s'īrase svāhā] and the tuft of hair [s'ikhāyai vashath] as also with the gāyatrī. (23) He should meditate on the Original Individuality of all Expansions, the very subtle transcendental form of Mine that, within his body fully purified by air and fire, is situated on the lotus of the heart and is experienced in the end vibration of the pranava [see also 2.2]. (24) By that from his own realization conceived, meditated form perfectly of worship within the body, that by His presence pervaded got charged, should he carry out the worship in detail inviting Him by [nyāsa] touching His limbs with mantras to establish Him within the deity and all there to it respected. (25-26) One should for the achievement of both [enjoyment and liberation], to both the Vedas and the tantras, together with the items of worship make the offerings of the pādya, arghya and ācamana water to Me, after having pictured to oneself My seat with the nine s'aktis and the dharma etc. [*4] as an effulgent lotus with eight petals within its whorl saffron filaments. (27) One after the other he should respect the Lord His disc-weapon [the sudars'ana cakra], His conch [the pāńcajanya], His club [the kaumodaki] and His arrows and bow [the s'arnga], His [Balarāma items of the] plow and pestle [hala and mushala], his gem [the kaustubha], His garland [the vaijayantī] and His chest mark curl of white hairs [the s'rīvatsa]. (28) Garuda, Nanda, Sunanda, Pracanda and Canda; Mahābala and Bala and indeed Kumuda and Kumudekshana [are the names of His His carrier bird and eight associates]. (29) Durgā, Vināyaka [Ganes'a], Vyāsa, Vishvaksena [see 6.8: 29, 9.21: 25-26], the spiritual masters, the godly, should each in their own place facing the deity be worshiped with the sprinkling of water and other rituals [*5]. (30-31) Using waters scented with sandalwood, us'īra root, camphor, kunkuma and aguru should the worshiper every day bathe [the deity] as far as his means permit; also he should chant hymns, such as the one from the vedic chapter known as svarna-gharma, the incantation called mahāpurusha, the purusha-sūkta [from the Rig Veda] and songs from the Sāma Veda such as the rājana and such. (32) With clothing, a sacred thread, ornaments, marks of tilaka, garlands and fragrant oils should My devotee with love decorate Me as is enjoined. (33) Pādya and ācamana water, fragrances and flowers, whole grains, incense, lamps and such items should by the worshiper be presented to Me with faith. (34) To one's means should one arrange for offerings of foodstuffs like candy, sweet rice, ghee rice flour cake [s'ashkulī], sweet cakes [āpūpa], sweet rice flour dumplings with coconut [modaka], spicy sweet wheat cake of ghee and milk [samyāva], yogurt and vegetable soups. (35) Massaging with ointment, cleaning the teeth using a mirror, bathing, food to be chewed and not to be chewed, singing and dancing one should have on special days or else every day. (36) In a sacrificial area set up as prescribed should one, using a girdle, a fire pit and an elevation of sacrifice, by hand build and bring to a blaze a fire equally piled up. (37) Spreading [kus'a grass, mats] and then sprinkling and ceremonially [anvādhāna] placing wood in the fire according the rules should he, having arranged for the ācamana water, sprinkling the items to offer, meditate on Me as residing in the fire. (38-41) Meditating in worship of Him as being brilliant with a color of molten gold, His conch, disc, club and lotus, His four arms and tranquility; His garment with the color of the filaments of a lotus, shining helmet, bracelets, belt, the ornaments on His arms, the s'rīvatsa on His chest, the effulgent kaustubha and a flower garland; throwing pieces of wood soaked in ghee into the fire and in the course of the arghya ritual making the two offerings of sprinkling ghee [two ways called ārgāharas] and [two different] oblations of ghee [called ājyabhāgas], should the intelligent one offer into the fire with root mantras and the [sixteen lines of the] purusha-sūkta hymn the oblations to Yamarāja and the other demigods called svisthi-krit in due order using a mantra for each [see also 11.14: 36-42, 11.19: 20-24, 11.21: 15]. (42) Thus having been of worship next offering obeisances unto His associates, should he present offerings chanting the basic mantra for the Deity in question, remembering the Absolute Truth as being the Original Self of Nārāyana. (43) Offering the ācamana water and giving the remnants of the food to Vishvaksena, should one then present prepared betel nut and fragrant water for the mouth [see also 11.3: 48-53, 11.25: 28]. (44) He should at times [see kāla, 11.21: 9] become absorbed in the celebration, listening himself and making others listen to My stories, acting out actively the transcendental activities along with loud singing and dancing [see also e.g. 11.5: 36-37, 11.14: 23-24]. (45) With prayers from the purānas, with greater or lesser prayers from other ancient scriptures and prayers written by others [see bhajans], should one prostrating pay homage and say 'O Lord, please show your mercy' and so also pray from direct experience [and other common sources]. (46) Placing one's head at My feet with one's palms brought together [one may pray like:] 'O Lord, please protect this one of surrender afraid of the mouth of death in this material ocean' [compare B.G. 11: 19]. (47) Thus praying should the remnants granted by Me be put to one's head and in case the deity respectfully is to be bidden farewell, should this praying be done once more, so that the light [of the deity] is placed within the light [of one's heart *6].

    (48) Whenever one develops faith in Me in whatever deity form or other manifestations should one therein accordingly be of respect since I, the Original Soul of All, am situated within as well all living beings as in oneself [see also B.G. 6: 31 and *7]. (49) This way by the processes of acting in yoga will a person worshiping both in this life and the next to the Veda and other specialized texts, from Me achieve the desired perfection. (50) To properly establish My deity should he build a strong temple, along with beautiful flower gardens reserved [to provide flowers] for daily puja, festivals and yearly occasions. (51) He who donates land, shops, cities and villages in order to assure the continuance of the daily worship and the special occasions, will achieve an opulence equal to Mine. (52) Installing the deity brings sovereignty over the entire earth, building a temple gives rulership over the three worlds and performing puja and other such services delivers one the realm of Brahmā; with all three will one attain a status equal to Mine. (53) He who free from ulterior motives engages in bhakti-yoga achieves by bhakti-yoga; he who thus is of worship receives Me alone [see also 5.5: 14, 11.12: 24 and B.G. 6: 44]. (54) He who from the godly and the learned takes away the livelihood he gave himself or was given by others, is a stool-eating worm to take birth for a hundred million years [compare 10.64: 39]. (55) The perpetrator [of such theft] and his accomplice as also the prompter and the one approving all share the karmic reaction in the next life in which they according their commitment to that will reap the results.
    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Dear Vcindiana,
    you should be aware that there are hindu scriptures called Agamas.
    By http://www.srivaishnavan.com/ans_vedas.html#39
    39.The Agamas accept the authority of Vedas. The Agamas prescribe idol worship in the place of rituals like Yagas, mentioned in the Vedas. They prescribed the methods of idol worship.
    40.The Agamas are predominantly divided into Saiva, Sakta and Vaishnava Agamas. Agamas mainly talk about construction of temples; the rules for installation and consecration of the deities in the temples; and the methods of performing pujas in the temples.
    Now I will quote some chapters from the book Dancing with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Catechism by by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami (1927-2001).

    By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-26.html
    What Is the Nature of the Holy Agamas?
    SLOKA 129

    The Agamas, Sanatana Dharma's second authority, are revelations on sacred living, worship, yoga and philosophy. Saivism, Saktism and Vaishnavism each exalts its own array of Agamas, many over 2,000 years old. Aum.

    BHASHYA

    In the vast Agamic literature, tradition counts 92 main Saiva Agamas--10 Siva, 18 Rudra and 64 Bhairava--77 Sakta Agamas and 108 Vaishnava Pancharatra Agamas. Most Agamas are of four parts, called padas, and possess thousands of metered Sanskrit verses, usually of two lines. The charya pada details daily religious observance, right conduct, the guru-shishya relationship, community life, house design and town planning. The kriya pada, commonly the longest, extols worship and temples in meticulous detail--from site selection, architectural design and iconography, to rules for priests and the intricacies of daily puja, annual festivals and home-shrine devotionals. The yoga pada discloses the interior way of meditation, of raja yoga, mantra and tantra which stimulates the awakening of the slumbering serpent, kundalini. The jnana pada narrates the nature of God, soul and world, and the means for liberation. The Tirumantiram declares, "Veda and Agama are Iraivan's scriptures. Both are truth: one is general, the other specific. While some say these words of God reach two different conclusions, the wise see no difference." Aum Namah Sivaya.

    How Are the Agamas Significant Today?
    SLOKA 130

    While the Vedas, with myriad Deities, bind all Hindus together, the Agamas, with a single supreme God, unify each sect in a oneness of thought, instilling in adherents the joyful arts of divine adoration. Aum Namah Sivaya.

    BHASHYA

    God is love, and to love God is the pure path prescribed in the Agamas. Veritably, these texts are God's own voice admonishing the samsari, reincarnation's wanderer, to give up love of the transient and adore instead the Immortal. How to love the Divine, when and where, with what mantras and visualizations and at what auspicious times, all this is preserved in the Agamas. The specific doctrines and practices of day-to-day Hinduism are nowhere more fully expounded than in these revelation hymns, delineating everything from daily work routines to astrology and cosmology. So overwhelming is Agamic influence in the lives of most Hindus, particularly in temple liturgy and culture, that it is impossible to ponder modern Sanatana Dharma without these discourses. While many Agamas have been published, most remain inaccessible, protected by families and guilds who are stewards of an intimate hereditary knowledge. The Tirumantiram says, "Nine are the Agamas of yore, in time expanded into twenty-eight, they then took divisions three, into one truth of Vedanta-Siddhanta to accord. That is Suddha Saiva, rare and precious." Aum Namah Sivaya.
    Now please read what is said in Karana Agama:
    "As the worshipper sees the image of his Deity in stone, clay, wood, or painting, then the God grants light from the Self completely of His own accord. Thus as fire from wood, the moon casts its reflection in the water pot spontaneously."
    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Now I will quote other agamic verses.
    I hope that you already know that Linga is the sacred symbol of Lord Shiva.



    For the purpose of protection of all, a Linga is variously caused to be built in villages by Gods, by seers and by ordinary men.Karana Agama 10

    Cutting all the stones to be cut, carving all the stones to be carved, boring all the stones to be bored, such are the three aspects of the shilpi's art. The architect and the sutragrahin build the temples and craft the images, but it is with the takshaka that the architect effects the opening of the eyes of these images, and similar rites.Suprabheda Agama 21.28-29.

    Having worshiped Nandi in the Southeast -- two-eyed, two-armed, black in color, having the formidable three-pointed trident of Siva, with a crest and twisted locks of hair -- in the Southwest, he should especially worship Mahakala, black in color, two-eyed, two-armed, with white garment, two-legged, having an awesome form, equipped with a noose and a tusk, and endowed with all ornaments.Karana Agama 323-325

    He should repeat the Siva mantra according to his ability, and (there should be) circumambulation, obeisance and surrender of the self.Karana Agama 446

    Offerings of perfumed substances, flowers, incense, lamps and fresh fruits -- these are the five elements of the traditional puja which culminates with the offering of the lamps.Kamika Agama 4.374

    A Linga sprung up by itself and an image in the shape of a God are said to be intended for worship for the purpose of others. The merit to the worshiper of worship for all others is the same as the merit of worship for oneself. The worship rites from the very beginning, worship of the Linga and its support, must be done by an Adishaiva in the manner described in the Agamas.Karana Agama 11

    The twice-born gurukal should twice place the triple sectarian marks of ash mixed with water. Having scattered all sins by this twofold protection of his body, the gurukal should now be competent to perform all the sacrificial rites. As fire in a basin flames by means of air, thus Lord Siva is born, is made manifest before the eyes of the devotee, by mantra, in the Linga.Karana Agama 64

    In the beginning of worship, at the conclusion of the rite, in the offering of water, in the anointing of the image, in the bathing of the image, in the offering of light, in the sprinkling of the image with sandal, in the bathing of the image with consecrated liquids, in the offering of incense, in the act of worship, and in all other things to be done, the Sivacharya should strike the great bell.Karana Agama 190-191

    He should bathe the Linga, repeating the Vyoma-Vyapi Mantra, and with sesame oil, and with curd, milk and ghee, with coconut water, with honey, repeating the Panchabrahman, he should carefully rub the Linga with fine rice-flour paste, repeating the Hridaya Mantra.Karana Agama 274

    First there is the invocation; second, the establishing of the God; third, water for washing the feet should be offered; fourth, water for sipping; fifth, the placing of arghya, water; sixth, sprinkling water as ablution; seventh, garment and sandal; eighth, worship with flowers; ninth, incense and light should be offered; tenth, offering of food; eleventh, oblation should be performed; twelfth, the holy fire, an oblation of clarified butter; thirteenth, an oblation; fourteenth, song and music; fifteenth, dancing; and sixteenth, the act of leaving.Karana Agama 423-426

    Whatever the merit in any sacrifice, austerity, offering, pilgrimage or place, the merit of worship of the Sivalinga equals that merit multiplied by hundreds of thousands.Karana Agama 9

    In the forenoon with a white garment, in midday with a red garment, with a yellow garment in the evening, and with any of them in the night, the worshiper, drawing the God near with the Sadyojata Mantra, should cause Him to be firmly established by means of the Vama Mantra and the Aghora Mantra.Karana Agama 269-270

    First there should be purification of one's self; secondly, purification of the site; thirdly, there should be the cleansing of the worship materials, fourthly, purification of the Linga; fifthly, purification of the mantras should be done. Thus there is the five-fold purification.Karana Agama 46

    Even the incompetent, indeed, should worship, ending with the offering of sacrificial food, ending with light. He who daily does this shall obtain progress toward the Auspicious.Karana Agama 450

    I really hope that the verses I quoted helped you to understand that hindu religion its-self requires "idol" worshipping to his followers.

    I think that you will can find very interesting to read three chapters from the book Dancing with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Catechism .
    You may wish to read them:
    http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-21.html
    http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-22.html
    http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-23.html

    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    I will quote something from the book How to Become a Hindu, A Guide for Seekers and Born Hindus by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami.

    By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...hbh_ch-10.html
    Question five: Are Hindus idol worshipers?

    A:No, Hindus are not idle worshipers. They worship with great vigor and devotion!

    Longer Answer:Seriously, Hindus are not idol worshipers in the sense implied. We Hindus invoke the presence of God, or the Gods, from the higher, unseen worlds, into stone images so that we can experience His divine presence, commune with Him and receive His blessings. But the stone or metal Deity images are not mere symbols of the Gods. They are the form through which their love, power and blessings flood forth into this world. We may liken this mystery to our ability to communicate with others through the telephone. We do not talk to the telephone; rather we use it as a means of communication with another person. Without the telephone, we could not converse across long distances; and without the sanctified icon in the temple we cannot easily commune with the Deity. Divinity can also be invoked and felt in a sacred fire, or in a tree, or in the enlightened person of a satguru. In our temples, God is invoked in the sanctum by highly trained priests. Through the practice of yoga, or meditation, we invoke God inside ourself. Yoga means to yoke oneself to God within. The image or icon of worship is a focus for our prayers and devotions. Another way to explain icon worship is to acknowledge that Hindus believe God is everywhere, in all things, whether stone, wood, creatures or people. So, it is not surprising that they feel comfortable worshiping the divine in His material manifestation. The Hindu can see God in stone and water, air and ether, and inside his own soul.

    Explanation:Humorously speaking, Hindus are not idle worshipers. I have never seen a Hindu worship in a lazy or idle way. They worship with great vigor and devotion, with unstinting regularity and constancy. There's nothing idle about our ways of worship! (A little humor never hurts.) But, of course, the question is about "graven images." All religions have their symbols of holiness through which the sacred flows into the mundane. To name a few: the Christian cross, or statues of Mother Mary and Saint Theresa, the holy Kaaba in Mecca, the Sikh Adi Granth enshrined in the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the Arc and Torah of the Jews, the image of a meditating Buddha, the totems of indigenous and Pagan faiths, and the artifacts of the many holy men and women of all religions. Such icons, or graven images, are held in awe by the followers of the respective faiths. The tooth of the Buddha in Sri Lanka's town of Kandy is another loved and respected image. The question is, does this make all such religionists idol-worshipers? The answer is, yes and no. From our perspective, idol worship is an intelligent, mystical practice shared by all of the world's great faiths.

    The human mind releases itself from suffering through the use of forms and symbols that awaken reverence, evoke sanctity and spiritual wisdom. Even a fundamentalist Christian who rejects all forms of idol worship, including those of the Catholic and Episcopal churches, would resent someone who showed disrespect for his Bible. This is because he considers it sacred. In Hinduism one of the ultimate attainments is when the seeker transcends the need of all form and symbol. This is the yogi's goal. In this way Hinduism is the least idol-oriented of all the religions of the world. There is no religion that is more aware of the transcendent, timeless, formless, causeless Truth. Nor is there any religion which uses more symbols to represent Truth in preparation for that realization.
    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    namaste and welcome to the Hindu Dharma Forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
    I am a little confused to read your post. Are you suggesting that we 'reduce' all loving powerful God into 'nothingness' ? How do you pray or worship God without the help of an aid? Are you suggesting that we join our Buddhists brothers in their shunyavada where there is 'no' God so to speak?

    Budhaam sharnaam Gacchaami!
    Last edited by satay; 16 November 2006 at 02:06 PM.
    satay

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
    The "all loving powerful God" can be reduced into a single syllable AUM. That is a form of "sound" idolatory. If you have the ability to meditate on this form of God you dont have to reduce God to a metal. Otherwise it is a good idea to have one, lest you might end up as a "void" worshipper.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ?
    Because it is a natural way to worship.

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc.
    False. Hindu's don't think they can create Gods. They do worship God through metal, wood rock etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
    He doesn't get reduced to a piece of metal, he simple resides there too.
    How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal?
    How can a God sit away far up in the sky and watch the mess? Is he fit to be a God if he doen't have the patience to sit in a temple and bless his devotees?

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like symbol?
    How can you make God into anything for that matter? How can one make God into a tyrant of the sky who creates and then punishes?

    But on the other hand, Hindu's don't make God into a symbol. Symbols are merely a way of making us understand the many mysteries of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous money on jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be worshipping .
    People go crazy on lot of things, like hatred for some means of worship. Some of them spend enormous amount of money to run the political machinery of conversion. Still others run organizations of terror. They believe is God is as narrow as their perverted minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    Even catholics worship idol Mary! Worshipping just the Cross is equally bad, real christ followers do not do that. There appears onething good in Islam that is not having an idol but its very religiousness that I cannot stand. Care to comment?
    The less we speak of these Islam, catholic and such religions when discussing dharma the easier it will be to understand dharma.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana
    Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal? People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like symbol? People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous money on jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be worshipping .
    God is everywhere!He is All-pervading!
    Please read what is said in Adhyatma Upanishad .
    By http://www.advaita.it/library/adhyatma.htm
    Om! That (Brahman) is infinite, and this (universe) is infinite. The infinite proceeds from the infinite. (Then) taking the infinitude of the infinite (universe), It remains as the infinite (Brahman) alone.
    Om! Let there be Peace in me! Let there be Peace in my environment! Let there be Peace in the forces that act on me!

    In the cave of the body is eternally set the one unborn. The earth is His body. (Though) moving within the earth, the earth knows Him not. The eater is His body. (Though) moving within the water, the water knows Him not. The fire is His body. (Though) moving within the fire, the fire knows Him not. The air is His body. (Though) moving within the air, the air knows Him not. The ether is His body. (Though) moving within the ether, the ether knows Him not. The mind is His body. (Though) moving within the mind, the mind knows Him not. The intellect is His body. (Though) moving within the intellect, the intellect knows Him not. The ego is His body. (Though) moving within the ego, the ego knows Him not. The mind-stuff is His body. (Though) moving within the mind-stuff, the mind-stuff knows Him not. The unmanifest is His body. (Though) moving within the unmanifest, the unmanifest knows Him not. The imperishable is His body. (Though) moving within the imperishable, the imperishable knows Him not. The Death is His body. (Though) moving within Death, Death knows Him not. He, then, is the inner-self of all beings, sinless, heaven-born, luminous, the sole Narayana.
    Now please read what is said in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.
    By http://www.advaita.it/library/brihadaranyaka.htm
    III-vii-1: Then Uddalaka, the son of Aruna, asked him. ‘Yajnavalkya’, said, ‘in Madra we lived in the house of Patanchala Kapya (descendant of Kapi), studying the scriptures on sacrifices. His wife was possessed by a Gandharva. We asked him who he was. He said, "Kabandha, the son of Atharvan". He said to Patanchala Kapya and those who studied the scriptures on sacrifices, "Hapya, do you know that Sutra by which this life, the next life and all beings are held together ?" Patanchala Kapya said, "I do not know it, sir". The Gandharva said to him and the students, "Kapya, do you know that Internal Ruler who controls this and the next life and all beings from within ?" Patanchala Kapya said, "I do not know Him, sir". The Gandharva said to him and the students, "He who knows that Sutra and that Internal Ruler as above indeed knows Brahman, knows the worlds, knows the gods, knows the Vedas, knows beings, knows the self, and knows everything". He explained it all to them. I know it. If you, Yajnavalkya, do not know that Sutra and that Internal Ruler, and still take away the cows that belong only to the knowers of Brahman, your head shall fall off’. ‘I know, O Gautama, that Sutra and that Internal Ruler’. ‘Any one can say, "I know, I know". Tell us what you know.’
    III-vii-2: He said, ‘Vayu, O Gautama, is that Sutra. Through this Sutra or Vayu this and the next life and all beings are held together. Therefore, O Gautama, when a man dies, they say that his limbs have been loosened, for they are held together, O Gautama, by the Sutra or Vayu.’ ‘Quite so, Yajnavalkya. Now describe the Internal Ruler.’
    III-vii-3: He who inhabits the earth, but is within it, whom the earth does not know, whose body is the earth, and who controls the earth from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-4: He who inhabits water, but is within it, whom water does not know, whose body is water, and who controls water from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-5: He who inhabits fire, but is within it, whom fire does not know, whose body is fire, and who controls fire from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-6: He who inhabits the sky, but is within it, whom the sky does not know, whose body is the sky, and who controls the sky from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-7: He who inhabits air, but is within it, whom air does not know, whose body is air, and who controls air from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-8: He who inhabits heaven, but is within it, whom heaven does not know, whose body is heaven, and who controls heaven from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-9: He who inhabits the sun, but is within it, whom the sun does not know, whose body is the sun, and who controls the sun from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-10: He who inhabits the quarters, but is within it, whom the quarters does not know, whose body is the quarters, and who controls the quarters from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-11: He who inhabits the moon and stars, but is within it, whom the moon and stars does not know, whose body is the moon and stars, and who controls the moon and stars from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-12: He who inhabits the ether, but is within it, whom the ether does not know, whose body is the ether, and who controls the ether from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-13: He who inhabits darkness, but is within it, whom darkness does not know, whose body is darkness, and who controls darkness from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-14: He who inhabits light, but is within it, whom light does not know, whose body is light, and who controls light from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self. This much with reference to the gods. Now with reference to the beings.
    III-vii-15: He who inhabits all beings, but is within it, whom no being knows, whose body is all beings, and who controls all beings from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self. This much with reference to the beings. Now with reference to the body.
    III-vii-16: He who inhabits the nose, but is within it, whom the nose does not know, whose body is the nose, and who controls the nose from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-17: He who inhabits the organ of speech, but is within it, whom the organ of speech does not know, whose body is the organ of speech, and who controls the organ of speech from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-18: He who inhabits the eye, but is within it, whom the eye does not know, whose body is the eye, and who controls the eye from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-19: He who inhabits the ear, but is within it, whom the ear does not know, whose body is the ear, and who controls the ear from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-20: He who inhabits the mind (Manas), but is within it, whom the mind does not know, whose body is the mind, and who controls the mind from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-21: He who inhabits the skin, but is within it, whom the skin does not know, whose body is the skin, and who controls the skin from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-22: He who inhabits the intellect, but is within it, whom the intellect does not know, whose body is the intellect, and who controls the intellect from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
    III-vii-23: He who inhabits the organ of generation, but is within it, whom the organ of generation does not know, whose body is the organ of generation, and who controls the organ of generation from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self. He is never seen, but is the Witness; He is never heard, but is the Hearer; He is never thought, but is the Thinker; He is never known, but is the Knower. There is no other witness but Him, no other hearer but Him, no other thinker but Him, no other knower but Him. He is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self. Everything else but Him is mortal.’ Thereupon Uddalaka, the son of Aruna, kept silent.
    Such upanishadic verses show that God is really all-pervading and He is everywhere.
    If God is everywhere(and in fact He is everywhere!) why should not He be even inside a statue or a symbol????

    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    Re: Idol worshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhakta of God
    If God is everywhere(and in fact He is everywhere!) why should not He be even inside a statue or a symbol????

    Regards,
    Orlando.
    Good analysis Orlando!
    satay

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