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Thread: Judaism - where does it come from?

  1. #1

    Judaism - where does it come from?


    Satay has asked that I post some of my ideas that come from my research into most of the major religions and scriptures. I have found some commonalities in them which are leading me to believe that they couldoriginally have come from a common source, possibly the Vedas.

    With Judaism, at this stage of the discussion, I will just give a very broad brush stroked overview of how my ideas are developing and then if others want to take up any specific points, we can go into more detail.

    I am coming to the conclusion that the three major influences on Judaism

    • Zoroastrianism, with which the Israelites would have come into contact around 500 BC when they were captive in Babylon. Zoroaster was originally a Vedic priest.
    • Greek and Pagan Gnostics, whose beliefs are very similar to the Egyptian Hermetica.
    • Alexandrian Jews around 100 BC.

    Itís hard to say how much the Jews were influenced by the Egyptians, as there is no record or evidence of them having been captive in Egypt. For example, there is no mention of the pyramids in the Bible. In addtion, if they were crossing the Red Sea to get to Israel, they would have been taking a huge detour. So the story of the flight from Egypt under Moses may well be allegory. The bare bones of that story would certainly match the stories of the Gnostics, which were Mystery stories and not meant to be taken literally.

    The Greek influence on the Old Testament applies to the later books that were written after the Greeks conquered Jerusalem post Alexander the Great. And of course, we know that the first translation of the OT was by the Greeks, and so their influence would also have been added in that way.

    In addition, there were more Jews in Alexandria during 1st century BC than anywhere else, including Jerusalem. Alexandria at this time would have been a veritable melting pot of spiritual teachers including rabbis, Brahmins and Greek Stoics. So many of the later books of the OT, including the Apocrypha, would have had this influence.

    How Iíve connected the Greek and Pagan Gnostic stories to the Vedas is this - the story at the heart of the Mystery stories is that of a descending Godman who rescues a fallen Goddess from the Underworld. In the Rig-veda, Indra descends to rescue Sarama from the caves of the Panis.

    So I hope this overview gives some idea of my thinking and Iíd be interested to hear if anyone else has any views on it.

  2. #2
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    namaste Gill,

    Thanks for posting this nice overview. This quotation of yours is very interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill Harley
    Zoroaster was originally a Vedic priest
    What makes you say that zoroaster was a vedic priest?

    satay

  3. #3
    Does anyone know about the story of Jajati and his 2 sons whom he circumcised, outlawed from the vedas and send outside bharat. They then worshipped lord shiva and got the belssing that their decendants will come back and rule the vedic people and insult the vedic dharma. Shiva later reduced the timeline of this terrible "baradan". does it appear in bhabiswa puran or Yogini tantra. The decendants of the sons of Jajati were called jews. Since then christians and islam has ruled us (or shall I say rules now?) and have inflicted terrible insult on the vedic dharma.

    Needless to say I believe in this story. The rise of abrahamic religions has a basis, it's a revenge against the spirtualists for their injustice to others and forgetting their duties.

  4. #4
    From Stephen Knapp’s Proof of Vedic Culture....


    In the Rig-veda (10.63.1) Manu is the foremost of kings and seers. Manu and his family were survivors of the world flood, as mentioned in the Shatapatha Brahmana (1.8.1). Thus, a new beginning for the human race came from him, and all of humanity are descendants from Manu.

    The Artharva-veda (19.39.8) mentions where his ship descended in the Himalayas. One temple that signifies the location of where his ship first touched land after the flood is in Northern India in the hills of Manalli. His important descendants are the Pauravas, Ayu, Nahusha and Yayati.

    From Yayati came the five Vedic clans:

    • the Puru tribe, connected with the Yamuna and Ganges region. The Rig-vedic people who developed Vedic culture in north central India and the Punjab along the river Saraswati (Rig-veda 7.96.2). Became the Paurava dynasty.
    • the Anu tribe, related to the north, to Punjab, as well as Bengal and Bihar. Mainly southern Kashmir along the Parushni (modern day Ravi) River (Rig-veda 7.18.13) and spread over western Asia developing the various Iranian cultures. Became the Greek dynasty.
    • the Druhyu tribe, related to the west and northwest, such as Ghandara (present day Kandahar) and Afghanistan. They spread over the northwest of the Punjab and Kashmir, and also spread across Europe as the Druids or the Celts. A first group went north-west and developed the proto-Germanic dialect, and another group travelled further south and developed the proto-Hellenic and Italic-Celtic dialects. Other Druhyu tribes included the Pramshus in western Bihar and Ikshvakus of northern Uttar Pradesh. Became known as the Bhoja dynasty.
    • the Turvashas tribe – related to India’s south-east, Bengal, Bihar and Orissa and are the ancestors of the Dravidians and the Yavanas. From Turvashu came the Turk dynasty
    • the Yadu tribe – related to the south or southwest, Gujarat and Rajasthan, from Mathura to Dwaraka and Somnath. Became known as the Lunar dynasty (also known as Yadavas)
    All but the Purus are known to have fallen from Vedic dharma, and various wars in the Puranas were with these groups.

    This is further substantiated in the Mahabharata which mentions several provinces of southern Europe and Persia that were once connected with the culture. The Adi-parva chapter (174.38) describes the province of Pullinda (Greece) as having been conquered by Bhimasena and Sahadeva, two of the Pandava brothers.

    The Sabha-parva and Bhisma-parva sections of the Mahabharata mention the provincce of Abira, situated near what once was the Saraswati river in ancient Sind. The Abhiras are said to have been warriors who left India out of fear of Lord Parashurama and hid themselves in the Caucasion hills between the Black and Caspian Seas.

    Another province mentioned in the Mahabharata (Adi-parva 85.34) is that of the Yavanas (Turks) who were so named for being descendants of Maharaja (King) Yavana (Turvasu), one of the sons of Maharaja Yayati, as previously explained. They also gave up Vedic culture and became Mlecchas. They fought in the battle of Kuruksetra against the Pandavas and on behalf of Duryodhana and lost. However, it was predicted that they would one day return to conquer Bharata-varsa (India) and, indeed, this came to pass. Muhammed Ghori later attacked and conquered parts of India on behalf of Islam from the Abhira and Yavana or Turkish countries. Thus, we can see that these provinces in the area of Greece and Turkey (and the countries in between there and India) were once part of the Vedic civilisation and had at one time not only political and cultural ties, but also ancestral connections.

    Gill

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    namaste Gill,

    Thanks for posting this nice overview. This quotation of yours is very interesting.


    What makes you say that zoroaster was a vedic priest?

    satay
    Sorry, Satay. Just noticed that you asked this question.

    I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where right now, but I'll think about it) that Zoroaster was originally a Vedic priest who, one day, so the story goes, was standing in an ice cold river doing his regular ablutions when he had a blinding inspiration that the whole Vedic religion was corrupt, and that he should reform it. So he turned the Vedic devas into the bad guys and the asuras into the good guys, and a few other things as well, but basically the whole of Zoroastrianism, particularlly the Gathas, are similar in language and concept to the Rig-veda.

    Mohammed too, came from a long line of Vedic priests in the family of the Kurus, those who were defeated by the Pandavas in the Mahabharata war, and who moved westwards after that. He also rejected the Vedic practises and rituals as corrupt, although he kept the Shiva linga at the Ka'aba. The word Ka'aba comes from Garbha, the inner sanctum of the Hindu temple.
    Gill

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    Gill so the shiv ling is there in mecca square right ?

    How about the Tejyo mahal under the taj mahal.

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    I have heard about the shiv lingum in Mecca but what is Tejyo mahal?

    satay

  8. #8
    More from Stephen Knapp, to answer your question Satay:

    "We have all heard how the Taj Mahal, which is considered one of the great wonders of the world, was built as the preeminent expression of a man's love for a wife. That it was built by emperor Shah Jahan in commemoration of his wife Mumtaz. However, in our continuous effort to get to the truth, we have recently acquired some very important documents and information. There is evidence that the Taj Mahal was never built by Shah Jahan. Some say the Taj Mahal pre-dates Shah Jahan by several centuries and was originally built as a Hindu or Vedic temple/palace complex. Shah Jahan merely acquired it from its previous owner, the Hindu King Jai Singh. "

    You can read more here: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the...dic_temple.htm

    And here's an interesting web page about the Ka'aba in Mecca.
    http://f24.parsimony.net/cgi-bin/mes...&Beitrag=64786
    Last edited by Gill Harley; 06 April 2006 at 11:27 AM.
    Gill

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    neat! thanks for the links.

    satay

  10. #10
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    Gill, I have visited stephen knapp's site and read about shiva temple tejyomahal. he has some pics of taj mahal. it doesnt convince me that it was a shiva temple. I did not do a detail analysis. but just saw it few times. I know stephen knapp would utter something just like that. I have also read something about PN OAK who has written a lot about this issue. allegedly government of india is hiding something in one portion of the building.

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