what about this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgnrJd0PmWs
Re: Judaism - where does it come from?
what about this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgnrJd0PmWs
Satyameva Jayate Nanrtam
Not sure it's historically and etymologically correct, but I found this when I was looking at the etymological root of the hebrew word 'shivah':
Source: http://aumshalom.com/hindu.htmTHE HINDU AND VEGETARIAN ORIGINS OF JUDAISM
The Earliest Jews Named their Children and their Cities
and Locations in General after the Names of Hindu Deities Commanding Vegetarianism.
The Ancient Hebrew Language as Revelation
Numerous scholars of ancient Hebrew have stated directly as well as implied that the Hebrew language itself is a revelation, a revelation that the use of the language cannot obliterate. The ancient Hebrew words contain basic significances that cannot be denied, no matter how the words are used. And the fact is that the words themselves demonstrate that Hinduism is the origin of Judaism, and that the original Jews shared the same pantheon as the Hindus.
Though those rewriting the original Jewish scriptures could insert new norms, radically different from those that originally existed, the language they used to do so nonetheless contradicts what they did. How so? The names given to Hebrew children in the earliest days of Judaism, the names given to their villages, of their religious feast days, are the names of Hindu personalities or deities who denounced animal sacrifices.
The scriptures of the Old Testament in general are full of the names of well known Hindu deities and personalities, such as Uma, Bala and Kali, consorts of Shiva. The warrior Arjuna from the Bhagavadgita is there. The Old Testament pervasively contains the name of the Hindu deity Ramah who is also the epic hero in the Hindu epic, the Mahabharata. Numerous Hindu names such as Isaiah and Isaac contain the Isa root. Isa is a name of Shiva. And Oshea, or Hosea, is a transliteration of Osseo, another name of Shiva. The name of Kali, the mate of Shiva is used to describe Kal Israel, or all Israel, and is the the root of Kal Law, meaning bride. The earliest Israelites regarded themselves as brides of their deity, much as Christian monastics regard themselves as the brides of Christ. Asura (Asherah) simply meant Almighty God in the earliest days of Hinduism. The Asherah shrines destroyed by the heretical cattleman cult were the vegetarian shrines of Hindu deities. Kana (Chanah) is a shortened form of Kannan, the Tamil Hindu name of Krishna). Kannan is also the source for the land of Canaan. Shiva also known as Sheba, Seba, Saba and Sheva exists throughout the Old Testament. And concepts such as that of the divine name, or divine utterance, Naamah, also pervaded ancient Judaism as we can see by the fact that places and people are named after Naamah. The veneration of Shiva was called Sabeanism, Saba, Seba, and Sheba being names of Shiva. All the above Hindu deities teach vegetarianism and compassion for all creatures, though minor sects in India still claim that their carnivorism is sanctioned by Shiva and Kali in their terrible aspects.
Sabeanism: The Universal Religion in Ancient Times
Members of these minor sects in ancient times were exiled to the western hemisphere, and ironically had their day of prominence in the human and animal sacrificing sects of the Aztecs. The Aztecs and Maya shared deities, and Kundalini, a term familiar to all those practicing yoga, is the name of a mother vegetation goddess among the Aztecs. The name Shiva was name was translated as Sui va or Zuiva. The names of Shiva Is, Isa, Isana, and Oseo were transliterated into Ix (pronounced eesh), Itza, Itzamma, and Oc. Temples of sacrificed were named teocalli and cities such as Caliquen were named after Cali and the Kanna deity of both the Tamil Hindus and Israelites. The Cali in California, a land previously owned by Mexico, is likewise derived from this goddess' name. The name of the Maya is in fact derived from the Goddess Maya, originally a goddess of creation and later a goddess of the illusory. Maya is a consort of Shiva. Quetzalcoatl, the Plumed Serpent, culture hero, and avatar, forbid animal sacrifices as well as human sacrificed, and therefore he and his vegetarian following were persecuted by the Aztecs.
THE ORIGINAL VEGETARIAN BIBLE
THE EXISTENCE OF THESE VEGETARIAN DEITIES AND PERSONALITIES
MESHES PERFECTLY WITH THE VEGETARIAN COVENANT OF GENESIS 1: 29-30.
The fact that Jews long after the Exodus continued to name their children and locations after Hindu deities supports Esdras' contention in 2 Esdras, that the earliest patriarchs taught the same thing as the later prophets, namely, vegetarianism. Coupled with the recognition that the tradition described as Tsabaism, Sabeanism, or Shaivism was the dominant culture in the ancient world, along with the vegetarian covenant that is indisputably affirmed in the first chapter of Genesis, along with the fact that the lineage of Noah created the vegetarian cultures of Ancient Ethiopia, Kush, and Sheba, we have more than sufficient grounds to demonstrate that it was the vegetarian tradition that ruled the earliest days of Judaism, and not the carnivorous tradition demanding animal sacrifices. The Jewish vegetarian tradition is firmly established in the very first chapter of Genesis, especially in Genesis 1: 29-30, which commands vegetarianism for all creatures, not just humans, and which thereby defines the moral and dietary parameters of paradise, as a non-violent place where the sacredness of all creatures is affirmed, and where no creatures are harmed. Even orthodox Jewish rabbis admit that God's original dietary covenant commanded vegetarianism, and they claim that the covenant sanctioning carnivorism occurred after the Deluge. It will, I contend, easily be seen that the passages sanctioning carnivorism after the Deluge are among the most sloppily rewritten and contradiction filled scriptures in the Old Testament.
The victors write not only history, but the scriptures,
in order to suit their own immoral standards.
There is of course a long line of biblical students and scholars who have stated the same thing, that scriptures all over the world have been revised by those in power. Constantine exiled dissenting bishops to assure that the bishops assembled to put together what we now know as the New Testament would contain teachings favorable to Rome, teachings for example affirming that God sanctioned the most horrible institution of all time to humans, namely slavery itself, an institution which anyone with an iota of understanding and compassion would understand would be totally contrary to the notion of an all-loving God, or to the teaching that one should "love your neighbor as your self." The fact that orthodox carnivorous Christians, Jews, and Muslims would accept both of these teachings as divine and not see the contradictions--this fact in itself--indicates the deep degree of mental and moral deficiency that is contributed to by the eating of flesh. There is absolutely no way that slavery and loving one's neighbor as one's self can be seen as not contradictory. The slave is property of another person. One who is loved as one's neighbor is an equal.
Once one has examined the overwhelming amount of evidence demonstrating the Hindu origins of Judaism, then numerous other passages in the Old Testament that are universally acknowledged as being filled with contradictions or problems may be seen for what they are, obvious revisions of the original Vegetarian Bible posited by Abegg, Wise and Cook in their edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is not as difficult as some think to prove conclusively that this was so, that an original Vegetarian Bible was revised to sanction the ulterior motives of the rich to to derive profit from the animal sacrifices and power from the institution of slavery.
Well, I'm Jewish and I happened to stumble upon this forum. Maybe I can add a different perspective to this thread.
Judaism is actually a lot older than 500 BC. Zoroastrianism had a bigger influence on Christianity than it did on Judaism, with the later already with it's roots cemented for about 1000 years. There are groups of people such as the Samaritans who split from the mainstream Jews in 722 BC, and today they still have a Torah which is almost identical to the Hebrew Torah (with only one major disagreement). The are also the Cochin Jews of India, who split from the major Jewish community in 930 BC (and yes, there are descriptions in the Bible of Israelis meeting Indian Jews... there are still some left today). So just how old is it then?
To know where it came from, you have to understand that there are three parts to the religion- the Written Tradition, the Oral Tradition, and the Hidden Tradition. The Written is the Bible, which is what Christianity is largely based off of (it was developed in Rome after the Romans started translating and interpreting the Jewish texts).
The Oral is what was "left out" in writing to protect against people infringing on the religion (which the Romans tried to do). It was recited in Israeli schools and forced into memory until about 200 AD when the Jews were forced around the world and they were afraid the Oral Tradition would be lost, so they (with a bit of anxiety) finally wrote it down into a book called the Talmud. This is largely the basis for Islam (which was started by Muhammad, an Arab who was illiterate and couldn't read the text but was intimate to the Oral stories). Sometimes the stories have extra details, such as the one about Mount Sinai. While the Bible says the Jews were gathered at the mountain, the Talmud further describes the mountain being held over their heads. (Interestingly, this is how the story is also told in the Muslim book; "We [Allah] made a covenant with you [Children of Israel] and raised the Mount [Sinai] above you, saying: 'Grasp fervently [the Torah] what We [Allah] have given you, and bear in minds its precepts, that you may guard yourselves against evil'". [Qur'an, sura 2:65]).
The Hidden is the Kabbalah, which is the most spiritual of the texts, and was again only passed down orally until they were in "diaspera". So when they could no longer pass it from parent to child, it was written in a book known as the Zohar.
The most important for knowing the origins is the Oral Tradition. It gives the key to how old the religion really is. As I said, parts were left out in the Bible. One example is the Kosher slaughter. When Moses is talking to the Jews (as it's written), all he says about how to slaughter animals is , "as I have commanded thee" (Deut 12:21) There is no written description of how this is done- it was passed on orally, so that Jews all around the world today still know what this means and agree on what "as I have commanded" means. (Again, the Muslims slaughter animals in the same way, whereas the Christians do not).
A similar thing happens with tefillin. There is no written description of what this is. Moses again instructes, "You shall put these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall tie them for a sign upon your arm, and they shall be as totafot between your eyes." (Deut 11:18). It's only because of the oral tradition do we know WHAT we are wrapping around our arms and what we are placing between our eyes. It's tefillin; leather straps to remind us of bondage from Egypt, along with a box that is placed between the eyes. If there was ever a noncontinuous gap from the Egyptian Exodus to today, than this meaning would have been lost. It's a sing used as proof of unbroken tradition.
So I think it's fair to say that Judaism is effectively as old as the Exodus. When did that happen? There were two major exoduses recorded by the Egyptian Manetho. Manetho wasn't a nobody. He chronicled the Egyptian Pharaohs and placed them into the dynasties that people still use today. The early exodus he talked about was around 1550 BC, to Pharaoh Ahmose. The later one was around 1280 BC, to Ramesses II. Manetho himself attributed the Hebrew exodus to the later one, although his account is now assumed to be a fictional description to rise up propaganda against Israel. He claimed that Moses forced the Pharaoh out of Egypt, took the thrown for himself for 13 years, and than was later chased out by an 18 year old Ramesses and forced all the way to Jerusalem followed by a bunch of leprous and diseased people (the Jews). The Greeks also mentioned the exodus, but placed the time to the early one, which I would argue for, although I'm not going to go all into why now!
There is a fairly simple way to tell how old Judaism is, however, without going through all that- genetic testing. One oddity about the religion is that we have preserved the lineage of the High Priests, known as the Cohens. The Cohens are said to be the descendants of the first priest, Aaron, older brother to Moses. They are all over the world, and yes, even found in Samaritans and Indian Jews. DNA tests can trace the Y-chromosome of these people all around the world to known when they converge to a single male relative. It happens to be that we are now 106 generations separated from Aaron. A patriarchal generation is 34-35 years, which means Aaron was born around 1700 BC- 1600 BC. The Exodus happened when he was 83 years old- about 1550 BC. The same time you get from following the historical clues I wrote above. (It's nice when things line up like that).
So that's where it came from. The religion was the direct result of the Exodus that happened roughly 3500-3600 years ago. A good portion of the religion has to do with preserving this memory.
गै
Namasté Tikkun Olam,
Thank you for your most informative post; truly amazing the perspective your dharma gives you, such a wealth of historical record.
It is customary here to make a little auto introduction; over in the introductions part of the forum.
But I wish you in advance a warm welcome; Pleased to meet you.
praNAma
mana
Last edited by Mana; 06 October 2011 at 02:58 PM.
Thanks for the welcome. I will be sure to give an introduction.Originally Posted by Mana
Although a single word doesn't come to mind, there is a very important sentence that I think works (which is the most important prayer in Judaism). It's called the Shema and it is said by Jews twice a day. It was whispered during various points in history such as the middle ages and the inquisitions when they didn't want anyone to hear, it's the traditional last words for a Jew, and the only thing Nazi soldiers reporting hearing when we were in the gas chambers.
In Hebrew;
Shema Yisrael, adonai elohenu, adonai echad.
And in English it translates to, "Listen O' Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."
It is a statement of faith that this entity, some sort of "divinity" is a single unifying force in the universe, and it comes along with the belief that the good and righteous will end up standing firm while the evil will fall apart.
गै
Namasté All
This may seem a little off the cuff, but I cant help but to ask If there is a connection between the name; Torah, and the mathematical form the torus. Also of interest the Sanskrit word toraNa.
Any thoughts on this most welcome.
praNAma
mana
I would like to say yes, but I doubt it. Torus is a Latin word, so it is much younger than the Hebrew. Torah is usually translated as the "law". I don't know the origins of the word torus, but it's probably a coincidence rather than the Romans making a symbolic statement.
(Although that symbolism would not be lost, because the Torah is broken into separate portions that are read on the same week every year, and after the new year, we beginning from the start again. It IS a circular motion, kind of like a torus).
What's torana?
गै
Namasté Tikkun Olam
Interestingly dharma can be translated a law.
Torah = dharma : to all intents and purposes.
Within the philosophy of sanantana dharma, we are taught to rely on several forms of information, not just scriptural. To understand how and why we formulate the beliefs that we formulate.
This is found in the writings of Patanjali.
Is there any such ides within Judaism?
Shema Yisrael, adonai elohenu, adonai echad.
... Beautiful ...
One is a very important concept in Kashmir Shaivism.
praNAma
mana
Last edited by Mana; 08 October 2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: ...
गै
Namasté Tikkun Olam
Thank you for your kind response, might I ask you if the Jewish calendar is lunar?
toraNa is an interesting Sanskrit word, to my mind its roots are in astrology. Lunar based the cycles predicative of the eclipse.
तोरण = toraNa = festooned decorations over doorways.
= decoration of an entrance.
= neck (see; Taurus, astronomy).
= mound near a bathing place.
= arch, portal, arched doorway, (Buddhism)
= Triangle supporting a large balance.
= ziva (God)
The gold Ring, was probably used from an early date to lead the bull by its nose. Rendering a somewhat savage beast tamed.
The gold ring in the Hindu religion may be considered a reference to the Sahasrara Chakra ... a door way.
Abraham requested that his people stop the worship of the Bull on his return from the mountain. (ziva)
I will say that I am no expert, just passionate and rather nosey! I have no great knowlege of Sanskrit and lean heavily on the use of a dictionary for my interpretation so I rely on the good faith of others for translation. I offer these thoughts to you humbly, and look forwards to your reflection.
My passion for knowledge of humanity steams from an experience at the age of about 19, which to me was highly spiritual.
praNAma
mana
Last edited by Mana; 08 October 2011 at 11:37 AM. Reason: ...
Yes, the Hebrew calendar is lunar with months alternating between 29 and 30 days to correspond to the 29.5 days it takes the moon to revolve around the Earth. We also count the days by nightfall (not by midnight). This means the Hebrew calendar is shorter than the solar calendar by a hand full of days, so a "leap year" in the Hebrew calendar is one that adds in a whole extra month, not just a day!
I think the name toraNa is probably again just a phonetic coincidence. Astrology is actually strictly forbidden by the Torah. It is seen as a form of idol worship, alongside things like fortune tellers, tarot, witchcraft, tattoos, and so on.
When you say Abraham above, I think you mean Moses? There is the story that when Moses ascended Mount Sinai to get the tablets with the Ten Commandments on them, the Hebrews melted down their jewelry to make an idol of a Golden Calf (a cow). When Moses returned, he was furious with them, smashed the tablets, and melted the idol into the sand. He was angry because one of the commandments was to not make a graven image of anything. No idols, no statues, no amulets- nothing. The entire Jewish nation is said to have heard the voice of God giving them this commandment, so Moses couldn't understand why a group of people who just, 40 days earlier, heard God tell them directly into their own ears "Don't do that", went ahead and did it anyway.
The Torah is law that is supposed to be followed be Jews, not by everyone. It makes that clear. It is not universally mandated law, but seen more like a contract signed by the Jewish people promising to follow it. What we do believe is universal, however, is the statement in the Shema, which is a proclamation of "oneness" and a deeper level of connection of all things.
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