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Thread: Judaism - where does it come from?

  1. #41

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namasté Tikkun Olam,

    Thank you for your informative response, you are quite right, I was referring to Moses and not Abraham. Please excuse my ignorance.

    Is not the very re-sighting of your scripts in concordance with the moon, the very basis of Astronomy? Is this an attempt to steady an intrinsically chaotic system through the use of Astronomy? To stop it being used for personal gain?

    Could it be that this is reserved as a higher practices; for the eyes of your Rabbi only?

    It is interesting that you speak of phonetic coincidence as a reason for similarity between words. My understanding of the nature of time would say that even if this is the case, they are still connected.

    Interestingly modern research in to the functioning of the genetic word or code, mirrors this notion perfectly, see epigenetics, and that words them selves, are stored in our long term memory by the process of neuro epigenetics. That nothing is ever written in stone, as stone its self in time is fluid, just as our understanding of what stone is; is also fluid.

    Some interesting Sanskrit words for your consideration.

    We must remember that sanskrit is originally a verbal tradition above all, born in a cradle of civilisation; attempts to record its sounds may well vary especialy when we arrive at similar words in the the same alphabet, via two different scripts, or routes (devengari and Hebrew) from "arguably" one verbal base. Just as wave formations are observed in quantum effect, they are observed in language and genetics.

    अभ्रम = abhrama = clear, steady, composure, linear.
    अभ्रमाला = abhramAIA = Line or succession of clouds (weather front)
    अभ्रमय = abhramAyA = hidden in clouds.

    भ्रम = bhrama = error, spring, mistake, circle, whirling flame, fountain, eddy.
    भ्रमण = bhramaNa = Orbit, turning around, unsteadiness, revolution.

    सिद्ध = siddha= fact, ready, proven, principle.
    सिद्धान्त = siddhanta = doctorine, principle, theory, rule.

    Might I humbly ask if you have specific prayers for specific times or moments within the lunar calendar?

    I am quite fascinated by your customs of which I am regretfully so ignorant! The jumps we must make to adjust our calenders remind us of just how non linear, the law of nature is.

    धर्म = dharma = Nature, manner, law, custom, usage, morality, attribute, moral merit, mark. (This is a very long list).

    The keener our eye becomes the more detail we see, the further we look, finally we realise the non linear nature of all. That this is One.

    बिन्दु = Bindu = ΔT

    You must, please; excuse my tangents, I am a very non linear thinker!

    If we fight against non linearity the spring coil retains energy until it snaps, if we allow for chaos well, there is adharma (the opposite of dharma) until dharma grows. Quite a conundrum.

    ... Does God play with dice?

    Thank you kindly for your thoughts.

    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 09 October 2011 at 04:11 AM.

  2. #42

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Is not the very re-sighting of your scripts in concordance with the moon, the very basis of Astronomy? Is this an attempt to steady an intrinsically chaotic system through the use of Astronomy? To stop it being used for personal gain?

    Could it be that this is reserved as a higher practices; for the eyes of your Rabbi only?
    The lunar calendar is only used to keep track of time, but the moon is not worshiped.

    There is a difference between astronomy and astrology. It is astrology that is forbidden. Not because it is reserved for special people, but because it is believed to be a false practice (that you can't tell what happens to someone on a certain day based on their astrological sign for example).

    We must remember that sanskrit is originally a verbal tradition above all, born in a cradle of civilisation; attempts to record its sounds may well vary especialy when we arrive at similar words in the the same alphabet, via two different scripts, or routes (devengari and Hebrew) from "arguably" one verbal base. Just as wave formations are observed in quantum effect, they are observed in language and genetics.
    I know Hebrew is a language in the Canaanite family of languages, which go all the way back to Sumeria in the cradle of civilization. It is also true that for a time Hebrew was only verbal. There are some 5000 year old Egyptian hieroglyphics written in the Hebrew language before there was a Hebrew alphabet. So it is possible some of these have the same origins.

    Might I humbly ask if you have specific prayers for specific times or moments within the lunar calendar?
    We do for specific times, but not for cosmological reasons. They are related to special holidays to commemorate events. Some of the holidays include Passover (for the exodus from Egypt), Purim (rebellion against the Persian genocide), and Chanukah (the war with the Greeks).

    I will note that anything based on the stars or the planets solely is not considered important. One of the major distinctions between us and the other ancient religions at the time is that we turned away from the stars out in space.

    If we fight against non linearity the spring coil retains energy until it snaps, if we allow for chaos well, there is adharma (the opposite of dharma) until dharma grows. Quite a conundrum.

    ... Does God play with dice?

    Thank you kindly for your thoughts.

    praNAma

    mana
    Hah, well Albert Einstein said God does NOT play with dice! I am not sure myself. I just believe we all have free-will and the universe will keep on doing what it does.

    ///EDIT/// I think there is more I can add about this whole topic. There is a great collection of Jewish views of astrology here;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_astrology

    A relevant quote is;
    "Faith and trust in God are partners, since one who believes in an omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent God must also believe that He will provide for His faithful. Therefore, one should trust in God and not be overly concerned about the future....Therefore, one should not seek to ascertain the future by fortune telling, astrology or other superstitions. Concerning this, The Torah commands us, "You must remain totally faithful to God your Lord" (Deut. 18:13), which some authorities count as a positive commandment."

    And another one;
    It is quite extraordinary that Maimonides...virtually alone in the Middle Ages, rejected belief in astrology. In a letter to the rabbis of Southern France he distinguishes between astronomy as a true science and astrology which he deems to be sheer superstition. Many hundreds of years passed until the Western world came to the same conclusion. Maimonides boldly declares that in Judaism a person's fate is determined by G-d alone, not by the stars.


    There are also much older references to it that you can see on that pages. They quote from the Torah, the "lost books" of the Bible, and the Talmud (which was the Rabbis' recording of the Oral Tradition). All of them agree- putting your faith in the cosmos is incompatible with Judaism.
    Last edited by Tikkun Olam; 09 October 2011 at 07:34 AM.

  3. #43

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    In another post you have questioned the historical existence of Jesus. What is the historical proof that Moses existed ? ... or even if he existed, all things that he said was not a craetion of his own figment of imagination ? I am not saying to denigrate Abrahimic religions. I am trying to make you see the larger picture. Did you ever think that if Laws of Moses was really from God why it was given to only certain group of people and not made public to the entire mankind ? Why should God differentiate between meat of one animal or the other animal ? Why can't God feel the pains of hapless animals which have been declared as "fit for eating" ... or why did He give them the ability too feel pain at all ? What was their fault ? Can such God be Called God in real sense ? You will have no logical answers. Yet we believe that your way is good in its own way.

    OM
    You asked me about Moses. The Jews point out that we didn't believe in Moses just because he said so, we did it because we as an entire nation heard the voice of God. Every single Jew was gathered around the mountain when they heard the voice give the the Ten Commandments. The is mentioned, and re-emphasized, and re-emphasized again and again.

    For example, the Torah says;

    Not with our forefathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, all of us, who are here alive today. Face to face, the Lord spoke with you at the mountain out of the midst of the fire. (Deut 5:3-4)



  4. #44

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namasté Tikkun Olam,

    Thank you for your honest reply, please understand that I am not trying to prove any point here or trick you, I am genuinely interested in your culture. I am new to the idea of words "Sanantana dharma" and am trying to gain as full a picture as I can as to the world in which I live.

    I don't suggest moon worship in my post, I believe idol worship to be counter intuitive to my thought process and needs, this does not affect my belief and devotion to God, I also empathise fully with those who connect with God this way. sanantana dharma is very open and accepting in this and many other respects. It envelopes all as one.

    Pertaining to the moon, do you really believe that this large electrically charged ball circumnavigating our planet has no effect upon it and thus us?
    To have me believe that would be nonsensical to my logical mind. I speak of science and not superstition.

    Regarding Egyptian Hieroglyphs? Surely they were Egyptian, you are making the same comparisons as I to another script.

    Interesting that the Sun god Ra, the eye. Relates to the sound Ra in Sanskrit as in raja or king. Which came first; is some what irrelevant it is the similarity suggesting a common root which interests me the most.

    I understand that the idea that your spiritual practise follows a tradition that you have been told is not permitted is aberrant to you. I am sorry for stirring this emotion within you, but you must also understand that from my perspective that is what this resembles to me.

    I quote from this Wiki page here:

    Qualified acceptance; partial skepticism

    However, contrary stories are related. It is said that Abraham predicted in these astrological tablets that he would have no second son, but God said unto him, "Away with your astrology; for Israel there is no mazal ("luck", literally "planet" or "constellation")!" The birth of his second son, the patriarch Isaac, then gives lie to the idea that astrology is valid. (BT Shabbat 156a). Midrash Genesis Rabbah states that Abraham was not an astrologer, but rather a prophet, inasmuch as only those beneath the stars could be subject to their influence; but that Abraham was above them (Genesis Rabbah xliv. 12).
    In general, many people quoted in the Talmud believed that in theory astrology had merit as some kind of science, but they were skeptical that astrological signs could be interpreted correctly or in a practical fashion. Commenting on astrologers in Sotah 12b, the Talmud says of them that "They gaze and know not at what they gaze at, they ponder and know not what they ponder."
    The most popular form of astrological belief was the selection of propitious days. According to this idea, certain periods of time are regarded as lucky or unlucky. Rabbi Akiba contends against the belief that the year before the jubilee is exceptionally blessed. The belief is also condemned that no business should be begun on the new moon, on Friday, or on Sabbath evening (Sifre, Deut. 171; Sifra, Kedoshim, vi.; Sanh. 65).
    Hebrew Calendar Correlation to Zodiac

    the zodiac has been shown to correspond to the months of the Hebrew calendar.
    For example, the month of Tishrei, beginning in September or October, has the sign Libra, the Scales. Tishrei is the month of Judgment, of Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur where good deeds and bad are weighed against one another.[1]
    Further information: Hebrew astronomy#Chronology and the zodiac
    It would seem that certain holidays and your calendar; may correspond to the zodiac somewhat?

    I had Einstein in mind when I made the remark about dice, I'm glad that you spotted that.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
    A great quote from Einstein.

    I have just seen that we are both observing the same wiki page, what a lovely coincidence.

    I am simply offering the idea of a common root. That your text may be weaved about the cosmos, which may be reduced to a mass, which coincides with Astronomy.

    Please don't take offence at this suggestion, I do not mean to offend by this hypothesise.

    I believe that you await a messiah, this imply's a very heavy reliance upon prophetic means, The physics of the solar system; be it the lens or the engine of that prophecy, this is of little import. The important point is the dependence upon this knowledge.

    Unless we are trying to understand the process.

    Thank you for sharing you most cherished beliefs with me, I mean you no discomfort, we are however in a Hindu forum and I feel this a valid discussion, from which I am learning greatly. For that I can not thank you enough.






    praNAma

    mana

  5. #45

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Pertaining to the moon, do you really believe that this large electrically charged ball circumnavigating our planet has no effect upon it and thus us?
    To have me believe that would be nonsensical to my logical mind. I speak of science and not superstition.
    It does have an effect on us- tides and oceans and so on. I don't believe that the moon can tell us of our future or personalities or anything.

    Regarding Egyptian Hieroglyphs? Surely they were Egyptian, you are making the same comparisons as I to another script.
    They were Egyptian, written by Egyptians on Egyptian tombs in Egyption hieroglyphs. But the language was Hebrew- they were prayers. Here's the story;

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,246379,00.html

    It only shows how old the spoken language was (there was no alphabet at this time).

    Interesting that the Sun god Ra, the eye. Relates to the sound Ra in Sanskrit as in raja or king. Which came first; is some what irrelevant it is the similarity suggesting a common root which interests me the most.
    Here's a fun fact; the word Ra in Hebrew means "evil". I don't know if that's a coincidence or not.

    (The word for king in Hebrew is Melech...)

    I understand that the idea that your spiritual practise follows a tradition that you have been told is not permitted is aberrant to you. I am sorry for stirring this emotion within you, but you must also understand that from my perspective that is what this resembles to me.
    No, you're fine. It is just an important distinction that should be made. Jews still hold fast to the rejection of physical idols, as well as the "idols" in the form of occult practices.

    I am simply offering the idea of a common root. That your text may be weaved about the cosmos, which may be reduced to a mass, which coincides with Astronomy.

    Please don't take offence at this suggestion, I do not mean to offend by this hypothesise.
    Again, I don't take offense. As I quoted above, we believe that if we rest our head on God's shoulder, he will take care of us. So certain kinds of superstitions that want to tell us our future are not interesting. We think that if we put ourselves in the moment and do what's right, things will work out anyway. That's good enough for me... I don't need a horoscope to know how my day is going to be.

    I believe that you await a messiah, this imply's a very heavy reliance upon prophetic means, The physics of the solar system; be it the lens or the engine of that prophecy, this is of little import. The important point is the dependence upon this knowledge.
    We do believe in prophecies, but that they come from the lips of God, not the stars. We believe that the Torah has been and will continue to be prophetic. It did not just promise our transient ancestors the "promised land". It said that we would eventually be exiled from the land, spread out across all the nations of the world in tiny numbers, that we would be hunted down and persecuted in the lands of our enemies, that they would have a thousand of them chase one of us, and that through all of that we would be saved and delivered and prosperous to disproportionate amounts to our numbers. And all of that would spread the light of God and morals throughout the world. It also says that there would be a time, after all that exile, that we would be gathered from all the corners of the Earth and returned to Israel.

    Many believe that last part is what's happening now with half of the world's Jews back in Israel after 1900 years of exile. Abraham was born in the year 1948 in the Hebrew calendar. Modern Israel was established in 1948 in the Gregorian calendar. We think we've come full circle.

    Thank you for sharing you most cherished beliefs with me, I mean you no discomfort, we are however in a Hindu forum and I feel this a valid discussion, from which I am learning greatly. For that I can not thank you enough.






    praNAma

    mana
    No problem. You're polite and understanding, I like you.

  6. #46

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namasté Tikkun Olam,


    Again, I thank you, yet I must confess to being somewhat perplexed by some apparent discord in your posture.
    I am glad that we are in agreement that the Moon has an obvious effect on the earth and her in habitants. I have never spoken of prediction or prophesy, or any other “mystical” things, You have.

    I am only interested in the present you see. To understand fully why I perceive reality the way that I do, and from that point on, to try to understand the perspective of others. How this all combines to one.

    Conciousness is not an on/off thing it is a spectrum.

    Foxnews to my mind is propaganda, if you are incapable of detecting this there is little point in my trying to share knowledge with you, as you will be little prepared to receive it.

    The Television, is in general a tool used by those who own its broadcasting rights to manipulate.
    You should be all to aware of the power of propaganda.

    Ra Now this is very interesting, and typically things pertaining to Ra can be very enlightening (I speak of fire in the belly or angst, not of an Egyptian God), you have inadvertently highlighted what is to me the greatest difference between. Jewish Doctrine and Hindu.

    Evil does not exist in the Hindu philosophy, only light and dark. The dualism which leads one to be possessed of the self conviction to accuse another of evil, highlights that it is ignorance that leads to arrogance.
    Ignorance is the epitome of darkness but it is not evil.

    Now Ra is a sound, it is manifest low down in our abdomens (try saying Ra with out use of the chest), to be more precise, it requires a long wave length in order to be produced, so it vibrates right down in our stomachs. This gives it a connection to the stomach and to fire, which occurs in the gastric acid in our stomach. This is also the place from where anger is created, as a side effect of worry and angst. So we could say that the “Wrath of God” is connected to Ra. But also light. Just as the combustion of food in our stomachs gives us light energy so does the combustion of Hydrogen in the Sun.
    Ra pertains to; Fire, Light, and the sun.

    The Old somewhat abrahman* notion of a dominating God, which is found in Hinduism in the likes of the Indra the older Gods.

    Evil is a condemnation, used to justify the killing of something. To settle the angst we may have about our “dark” deed.

    The Hindu religion does however have the notion of the Demonic, those possessed of the self in the wrong light.

    You mock (just a little) the notion of astronomy yet your religion has you worshipping in accordance with the planets, this seems to me to be Astrology used for the purposes of a people and not a person, not necessarily a bad thing, arguably the most powerful use of astrology possible.
    You say that you don't believe in the power of the predictive:

    At what point does a prophesy become prediction? When it is made or when belief in that prediction makes it manifest? Maybe when it is spoken with the power of Ra in the stomach? (please don't miss interpret this) I refer to good elocution with perfect timing and power (sound level) in accordance with all of nature. Maybe even just before an eclipse? Which you have predicted?

    It is interesting to note here that the speech of one who has raised Kundalini becomes rhythmic and flowing, very natural and spontaneous, as if god were speaking though them.
    This is of course, the energy of shakti stimulating creativity in man. It is however hypnotic and the resonance it creates can lead to either mass hallucination or mass realisation, depending on your doctrine for the choice of words.

    It is interesting to note that the “image” of a burning bush and the word of God, is very descriptive of one who has experienced a kundalini rising.

    All elements of the resonance and harmony of nature.

    What do you think of the kundalini? Do you have any way of letting this energy express its self in your culture?


    Or is this fire evil?

    Does Judaism, acknowledge any connection to the Christian and Muslim faiths?
    I apologise if any of my preconceptions are wrong but I have been taught a little of the "Old Testament" in my childhood. A version which has passed through the mill of several translations and interpretations, combined with some heavy editing.

    Rather like a Fox news report!!!


    PraNAma


    mana

    *abrahman = with out BrahmaNa.
    Last edited by Mana; 10 October 2011 at 01:18 PM.

  7. #47

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Foxnews to my mind is propaganda, if you are incapable of detecting this there is little point in my trying to share knowledge with you, as you will be little prepared to receive it.

    The Television, is in general a tool used by those who own its broadcasting rights to manipulate.
    You should be all to aware of the power of propaganda.
    I have no issue with that article, it was a straight forward archeological account. There is no message or mission there.

    Ra Now this is very interesting, and typically things pertaining to Ra can be very enlightening (I speak of fire in the belly or angst, not of an Egyptian God), you have inadvertently highlighted what is to me the greatest difference between. Jewish Doctrine and Hindu.

    Evil does not exist in the Hindu philosophy, only light and dark. The dualism which leads one to be possessed of the self conviction to accuse another of evil, highlights that it is ignorance that leads to arrogance.
    Ignorance is the epitome of darkness but it is not evil.
    Ra is just a word in Hebrew. I just pointed out that it is probable that it came into being as a slap in the face to the Egyptians, who very early on worshiped Ra. Maybe there was so long-seeded animosity there. It is interesting in that case.

    The Old somewhat abrahman* notion of a dominating God, which is found in Hinduism in the likes of the Indra the older Gods.

    Evil is a condemnation, used to justify the killing of something. To settle the angst we may have about our “dark” deed.

    The Hindu religion does however have the notion of the Demonic, those possessed of the self in the wrong light.
    We don't believe in people being possessed (although some Christians do), we believe in conscious choice. We also believe in objective morals, unchangeable right and wrong, not subjective morals. So everyone has the conscious ability to decide if they are going to do something right, or wrong. If you commit adultery, it's not good enough to say, "I'm not responsible, I was possessed". I don't think the man's wife you slept with would care too much for that answer!

    (Sometimes people are mentally unsound and are not responsible for their actions. But the majority of "bad" things in the world are done by people's choice.)

    You mock (just a little) the notion of astronomy yet your religion has you worshipping in accordance with the planets, this seems to me to be Astrology used for the purposes of a people and not a person, not necessarily a bad thing, arguably the most powerful use of astrology possible.
    If it works that way, then it is something beyond our understanding. We don't claim to be able to predict using the cosmos, at least.

    This you might find significant. Both the First Temple and the Second Temple in Jerusalem were destroyed on the same exact day during the Hebrew calendar (about 600 years apart). We are still waiting to build the Third Temple. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe it was "in the heavens".

    You say that you don't believe in the power of the predictive:

    At what point does a prophesy become prediction? When it is made or when belief in that prediction makes it manifest? Maybe when it is spoken with the power of Ra in the stomach? (please don't miss interpret this) I refer to good elocution with perfect timing and power (sound level) in accordance with all of nature. Maybe even just before an eclipse? Which you have predicted?
    Prophets are spoken to by God. Usually this has to do with deep focus and meditation, training your brain to access this part of it. The framework for Jewish history I said above was all written in the Torah, and is believed to be literally God speaking to our prophet. There were others afterward who were considered prophets in Israel. I even know people today who have spent a lot of time developing this sort of meditation, and they were able to hear God talking to them, even if it was more minor (things like "Get up now and walk around the corner. There is a homeless woman there. Give her a sandwich".)

    It is interesting to note here that the speech of one who has raised Kundalini becomes rhythmic and flowing, very natural and spontaneous, as if god were speaking though them.
    This is of course, the energy of shakti stimulating creativity in man. It is however hypnotic and the resonance it creates can lead to either mass hallucination or mass realisation, depending on your doctrine for the choice of words.
    Interesting choice of words, that's usually how we described Mount Sinai- a mass revelation (since at that moment, everyone heard God's voice, not just one person).

    It is interesting to note that the “image” of a burning bush and the word of God, is very descriptive of one who has experienced a kundalini rising.
    How so?

    What do you think of the kundalini? Do you have any way of letting this energy express its self in your culture?


    Or is this fire evil?
    You might have to explain it to me more, but from I gathered from this post, yes, I think that sort of energy is expressed.

    Does Judaism, acknowledge any connection to the Christian and Muslim faiths?
    I apologise if any of my preconceptions are wrong but I have been taught a little of the "Old Testament" in my childhood. A version which has passed through the mill of several translations and interpretations, combined with some heavy editing.

    Rather like a Fox news report!!!


    PraNAma


    mana

    *abrahman = with out BrahmaNa.
    Of course there's the connection, I briefly talked about it in my first post. The Bible was written by Jews, and these books are still a large factor in the Christian faith.. The Qu'ran also follows the history of the Jewish people (not the Arabs), and it's stories are very similar to the Oral Tradition.

    I'm guessing you've never read these books. I think a lot of people hear the stories, but they are kind of second or third hand versions of them. I've noticed that there are a lot of Hollywood movies about the Exodus (there are 2000 years of Jewish history in the Bible, but for some reason people always make movies about the same story again and again), but the movies are always wrong. Always. You always get a prettied-up version of what is actually written. The written history is actually filled recognizing our own faults and mistakes, talking about our defeats as well as our victories. And there is a lot in there that is difficult to praise, but it's still in there. These are the kinds of things they leave out in the movies!

    I will also say, the original Hebrew is also important. You wouldn't think it would make much of a difference, but when I look at some English translations, there really are issues with them. I think a lot of meaning is lost in translation.

  8. #48

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namasté Tikkun Olam,


    I understand and sympathise with you views and perspective; you must how ever, forgive me for I fear that you maybe somewhat in the dark, as to the inner nature of the self and thus that of sanantana dharma.

    Rupert Murdoch is CEO of the group that owns “Fox news” if you are unaware as to the recent scandal in Britain please do investigate.

    It is so important to realise that all knowledge received as hearsay, can not be taken as truth, you must find truth for you self and know to measure that truth against that of others in spiritual conversation and meeting.

    I am not the best person with whom to discuss the teaching of Hinduism, there are many here on HDF who can help you to understand these principles. I am myself still very much a student.

    Of
    the Demonic, we are not on the same page here as your understanding of evil leads you to misinterpret. You must have a full understanding as to the workings of karma to know this. If the head of an organisation is Demonic he will colour the structure beneath him/her the people dwell in “hell” for periods, from which they can remove them selves if they are assisted or blessed.

    We may become possessed as an entire people, but the relativity of such a situation renders us blind to its effect.

    See the colonisation of the world as a good example of this. The Dark ages were truly dark, and the Enlightenment has barely begun. We, as a species; had truly regressed at this time.

    This man is quite the expert, on pathological narcissism, He freely admits to being such, but truth is a moving target and one must be ever watchful to know that one is not shifting into a state of tamas (see gunas).
    This is not a people or sect or race, but a disruption in the balance of Ida and Pingala communally.

    Narcissism and the Empathetic.

    In Papua New Guinea there exists peoples who's dharma is so different from ours in Eurasia, that they have evolved that the males live with their sisters, not mating with them, just living with them. To help bring up their children. Sexual intercourse is very open in this society, but no one knows who the father of the children are. A man assures that his time investment is for that of his own blood by helping his sisters children. I am not suggesting this as a practise but it cannot be ignored as an example of a different dharma, which is stable.
    Geography has allowed these people to exist as such.

    N
    ow, do you have the openness of mind to understand that these people are not evil?
    They are not animals. And that we; as mass “consumers”, are not better than they. We have no right to their land nor resources.
    Nor to pollute their environment.

    This is dharma also, their dharma.

    Empathy, the empathetic; strength and wisdom, all of these thing depend upon Karma. Who is capable of seeing the intricate connections between the folk of a society. It is by nature; the empathetic, so what happens when a culture deems their empathy, pathetic?

    Narcissus does not look out for the masses, but enslaves them.


    Wisdom which can be gained purely by the natural use of Gods energy, is beaten from those who are most capable, their inner vision ignored and misunderstood; by those of linear perception who have built walls about their fear in the form of ivory towers. This impedes the lotus like unfolding of the universe. (Fractals)


    For what? For control, for the fear that they manifest in their guts; that some one, might be as corrupt as they, and quite prepared to take their all.

    I find if fascinating that we might think that with the use of our our egos, we are no longer possessed of our dharma. Look to neuro epigenetics to see how dharma is a construct exists in electricity upon DNA as unified conciousness.

    If we now look to Sigmund Freud we see a manipulative controlling drug addict who displayed the Narcissistic tendencies of a very controlling nature. From which he himself was trying to escape. His daughter; Anna Freud, had two main patients on whom she tested her theory's; the children of a friend of the family's, they both committed suicide due to her manipulation of their dharma.

    The energy of which you speak is in prAna, not Kundalini.

    Kundalini is a more concentrated form than this.

    The Kundalini, is the energy of which you speak of for Judgement. It is only judgemental when it is hidden and mystified. Any, (and there are many) who see this energy are treated as crazy in this material world.
    Very few in the West are even given any help other than drugs towards their correct path; which would be a mentor (Yoga given by a qualified Guru).

    In good balance, this energy directs the flow of the river of life. It brings insight to the wise, to direct the scientific understanding of the world with which we are entrusted to live in harmony.

    If this is driven by the power hungry, money mad, then the blind are truly leading the blind. And the result is a pressure cooker.

    You will get your explosion, but then you know that.


    This planets; Earth's diversity will win out, attempts to control prakRti or nature like that will result in massive karmic reactions, lets us hope that this occurs before we have consumed it all.

    That we might know not to play with fire but to use it not as a tool against the elements. But to worship its majesty, not to deny it; it is every man/woman and child.

    The tactic of denial has been tried in forest fire prevention, to disastrous result.


    By stating that only Moses is above the stars, a Dam is created. What this word needs is irrigation.

    Kundalini is the divine message of God, if it manifests in one who is not ready whose dharma does not permit it they become very disturbed; by the bad Karma, the illness and fault is in the society that fails to prepare its children for growing up. The abuse of the weak minded in a parallel culture by another culture who has harnessed this energy is paramount to psychological war fair, to my mind an abuse of the love of God and an act which will surly result in karmic response … Persecution, even if the intentions are “Good”.

    This remains a act of revenge.

    Revenge will result in continual persecution.
    An eye for an eye never stops until all concerned are blinded.


    Why Is Israeli so violently opposed to her own children? … Karma?


    I do not wish to criticise or stir up anger or pain, I only speak of my observation, as to what appears to me, to be the misuse of an advanced psychological effect with out its full understanding. The equivalent of leaving a nuclear weapon in the hands of children in the playground.

    I will one day read the legends of which you speak, but for now my affinity in both body and mind is to the Vedas and Upanishads; The Bhagavad Gita, and many other great works, of which I am still only scratching the surface. I have not felt this affinity with other doctrines, in general feeling that they are latter derivatives of this original body, not adding to but detracting from this great work.

    I do admit to being fascinated by the origins of the Jewish religion, heck in a moment of divine inspiration I have thought my self sent to teach you. I have since been taught by a wiser master, who has explained as to the pitfalls of the ego.


    There is a perfect harmony between life's spiritual experience and that which I read in these sacred texts. All I see of God in my countries own dharma (Which is based in the old testament of Jewish decent) is the remnants of temples showing machines of torture and tortured souls. This is not in resonance with my view and understanding of sanantana dharma.

    I do admit that there is wisdom in the words, but they do not resonate and are more than somewhat out of time.

    Transcendental wisdom is not subject to this deformation.

    We are all free in this world to believe as we choose, but we should not shun our roots. And belief should unite people in communion, so that they may together choose their own future. We seem to currently be subject to mass manipulation by elitists who think that they know what is best.


    You can only understand this position by catching a glimpse of the transcendental nature of knowledge, the knowledge that the human concious state is one. This may come from above with no warning which may its self may render you mad, I recommend a path of education with those who are trained in the sacred ways of this knowledge, this is the means by which this energy is dispersed as love.


    Might I recommend that you read the Bhagavad Gita, as an insight into Kundalini energy. A word of warning though, this should not be made a goal in life as it is a very heavy burden. But it will give you another perspective as to the nature of the word of God. Surly many forms and variations are better than one, we see this as a norm in every thing else in life including music and genetics. Of course we are safe in the knowledge that this splendour is mAyA, that all is really just that. One.

    The greatest use of this energy and love is for teaching.


    I shall fall silent for a while my friend; as I have a back log of reading to do. I will how ever be thrilled to answer any question that you may have pertaining to this posting.


    I sincerely hope that nothing here within has offended you, I offer you only my thoughts which you are quite free to disagree with, I have the feeling that you understand this perfectly.



    Above all I apologise for the some what rambling nature of this discourse, I am slowly improving but it is not easy for me to write. It takes me an exceedingly long time to formate linear text. I am somewhat more fluent in conversation..


    PraNAma


    mana


    Aum shri ganeshaya namah ...

  9. #49
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    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namaste Mana,

    A very thoughtful and good post !

    I would like to point out this here : Kunadalini Yoga has not been discussed by Bhagwan Krishna in Bhagwad Gita. It is part of RAj Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Kriya Yoga etc. These are taught by a qualified Guru and not to be practised by reading from a book or listening to someone.

    Kundalini is a very powerful conscious energy which in an average person resides in the MoolAdhAr chakra which is near anus. The other Chakras along the spine are Swadhisthan (opposite the urinary tract), Manipur (opposite navel), AnAhat (opposite heart), Vishuddha (on the neck), AjnA (between the eyebrows) and the SahasrAr (Crown of the head). The Kundalini when it resides within MoolAdhAr chakra and the SwadhisthAn Chakra, man is bound to pleasures through sexual organs. The opening of heart chakra i.e the AnAhat chakra leads to listening of AUM vibration ozzing out from infinite pores of this universe & here starts the real journey towards Self-realisation. It is said thet after activation of AnAhat Chakra the mind doesn't find any enjoyment in worldly pleasures and seeks enjoyment in God alone. By reaching Vishuddha Chakra man starts having 24 hours vision of God.

    It is important that ShushumnA nAdi is opened for the Kundalini to travel upwards.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #50

    Re: Judaism - where does it come from?

    Namasté Divotee,

    Thank you for your kind consideration, your thoughts mean much to me.

    You are quite right that Kundalini needs qualified instruction.
    For those who do not find mentors, it can be hell; of this I am sure.
    It would seem to me that this energy is so involved with education, yet we seem to be missing the target some how. (I pertain here to British/Western science and general education).
    Paradoxically, I believe; this is why it manifests.

    Does सुषुम्ण = ShushumnA ?

    praNAma

    mana

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