The absence of good...

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I am rather fond of this story , yet have not found a reliable source that says this unequivocally took place...still, a valuable point of view.

A professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did". The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil.

The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " . Of course" answered the professor.

• The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exist?"

The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

• "And, does Dark exist?", he continued.

The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light.
Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor,

• "Sir, does evil exist?"

The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

As the story goes, the young man's name was Albert Einstein

praṇām

[Maya3]

That is great!

Thank you for sharing that.

One thing I'd like to say though is that it is not the absence of God in men's hearts, God is never absent, it's just that some people don't feel God and therefore doesn't choose the right path.
Einstein was a Hindu I have heard, not sure how true that is?

Maya

[saidevo]

namaste Yajvan.

This urban legend, which I came across many years ago, has more to it: actually, the professor is supposed to have said that since God can't be seen or felt, he does not exist. To that the student, after many examples of duality such as heat and cold, good and evil, quipped that no one in the class had seen or felt the professor's brain, so it would mean that the professor had no brain! The extended form of the story can be read here:
http://www.indianskeptic.com/chain-mail-god-vs-science/
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...3beec4177574ea

As this link shows, the extended story could have been one that was cobbled up of many other imaginary episodes:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Nevertheless, the postulate that darkness is only the absence of light and coldness is the absence of heat could be a pointer to the nature of Dvaita--duality, of the world. Would this mean that avidyA--nescience, that is, all the worldly knowledge including science, is only a myth, a mirage, due to the absence of vidyA--real knowledge, of the Infinite Self?

If that is the case, then what other proof do we need for Shankara's statement, "brahma satyam jaganmithyA", which establishes the Advaita--non-dual, unity of everything, when ultimately resolved/dissolved into Brahman the Self?

[Adhvagat]

Saidevo, this Indian Skeptic text is very interesting and brought me to a few points:

- The universe is not made out of dualistic states, instead the interaction of elements trying to find equilibrium and our limited observational capacity generates the idea of duality (just like there's no day and night for someone outside of earth's atmosphere).

- When he talks about darkness being only the absence of visible light, I imagine that all acts are always the flow of the untouched original energy of God and changes to them happens only in the observer's end.

If we look at this whole text as a Christian attempt to undermine attacks to its faith and evolution (to defend the nonsense that the universe was created 6000 years ago), yeah, the Christian philosophical understanding is pretty flawed, dualistic in a very material way and doesn't add much to its own concept of God.

However, the understanding of Samkhya, Brahman and Tattvas according to several schools of thought of Sanatana Dharma add a whole lot to the discussion.

But I must say that both sides of this Christian vs. Skeptics don't please me. The skeptics engage in a frontal encounter and instead of considering topics that transcend science, they stick to them using only logic as support without ever considering logic is only one function of our mind.

Feel free to point scientific and philosophical misconceptions in what I just said.

And It would be nice if someone talked about the Dvaita point of view of evil and misery.

Om Tat Sat

[jasdir]

"Did God create everything that exists?"

We cannot use the word "DID" in this Question, because
"He"(god) is still creating.

Anyhow, Can anybody write the right "QUESTION" ?.

_/\_Jasdir.

[Adhvagat]

We cannot use the word "DID" in this Question, because
"He"(god) is still creating.

Thanks for the reminder! A point I missed...

So is creation an endless flow?

[Maya3]

Pietro:
I LOVE the way you said this;

The universe is not made out of dualistic states, instead the interaction of elements trying to find equilibrium and our limited observational capacity generates the idea of duality (just like there's no day and night for someone outside of earth's atmosphere).

I remember speaking to Christians before I became Hindu, and often when I voiced skepticism about Hell they always said: "But if there is good there HAS to be evil!" in such a tone of voice as if it was the most obvious thing in the world.
I never agreed.

There is only karma created because we don't see the whole picture and we don't understand who we really are.

Maya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakakam Yajvan et al:

We read and read, and some concepts stay, whilst other ideas go in one ear and out the other. This thread is one that will stick in this soul's head for this lifetime, I think. It is quite widespread and can be used to explain a lot: " ______ is just the absence of ________. I've been filling in the blanks all night. Some concepts work better than others. Thank you.

I remember going off topic into ideas such as number without a unit having no meaning, directions being totally meaningless from a universal viewpoint, and location only being relative to another location. It makes one review how bound we are by false concepts, and yet at the same time how dysfunctional we would be on this plane without them.

Aum Namasivaya

[saidevo]

namaste PI and others.

You have made some wise and thought-provoking points.

The universe is not made out of dualistic states, instead the interaction of elements trying to find equilibrium and our limited observational capacity generates the idea of duality (just like there's no day and night for someone outside of earth's atmosphere).

I imagine that all acts are always the flow of the untouched original energy of God and changes to them happens only in the observer's end.

This is nothing but pure Advaita. The beauty of it is that it is the 'untouched original energy' of Brahman that has condensed itself into the atomic matter of the elements and catalyzes their interactive search for equilibrium. The pure energy of chaitanya--consciousness/intelligence, has also created simulated forms of consciousness known as jIvas, which are nothing but thinking robots that delusively conclude themselves to be the observers and everything else as observed, without understanding their true nature.

The skeptics engage in a frontal encounter and instead of considering topics that transcend science, they stick to them using only logic as support without ever considering logic is only one function of our mind.

The skeptics are afraid that their whole physical edifice will crumble if they admit that it is after all the human mind that is responsible for all the concepts of science. This is why they make repeated attempts to reduce the mind to physical concepts, organs and functions.

The whole universe is in the mind of Brahman, just his dream. The difference between his cosmic dream and our dreams is that we have no plan or control over our dreams. Saying 'our dreams' is duality, because our dreams are also part of the cosmic dream, which is why Brahman has introduced Time as the healer and dissolver of the chaos.

[sanjaya]

Einstein was a Hindu I have heard, not sure how true that is?

Einstein's religious views were notoriously difficult to pin down. He was a Jew (in the same sense that I am Indian, which I suppose says next to nothing about what he actually believed). In his various writings he says that he believes in God, that he believes religions to be childish, and that he regards God as the cause of order in the universe. If we have to label him, I suppose we could call him a deist.

That's what I get, anyway, from a book I read containing selected writings of his.