Brahmacharya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Just a story and some observations, between east and west. Its more about brahmacharya the stage of life than about celibacy.

The other day I was at the temple sitting on the steps taking a break, but watching other devotees come in. There are two families I observed. One family has 2 brothers, and the other has 3 sisters, all 5 in their early 20s or so.

So the two brothers are standing there chatting it up, about their courses at university, general observations. About one minute apart from each other, each of the three sisters walks past, and says 'hi' or 'Vannakkam" to the brother pair. It was obvious to me that they were trying to be noticed. Usually any person says hi to another person expecting some kind of return response.

No response. Nothing. Nada. The brothers just keep talking about classes and stuff. The girls just continue on into the temple to join the bhajan singing.

Now I'm thinking of the times I saw something similar in western high schools. It would have been very different. There would have definitely been some sort of interaction. The boys would have noticed.

For me it illustrated how deep the culture goes.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste EM,

You might be spot on in your observations and conclusions. But here is another point of view for the same situation:

To me a firm, respectful acknowledgement of the person who says hello to you, with a hello, how are you, is an indication that you mean respect for the person and are not thinking of him/her in base terms. Avoiding/non-acknowledgement is an indication that your mind either already has, or may develop ideas that you don't want it to, if you saw or acknowledged the person. It is a weakness that the person may either be trying to hide or trying to overcome. In either case, the person being ignored has been objectified and brought down a notch from a fellow human being who deserves respect. A timid ignoring at that age is a way of dealing with the hormones, and not necessarily an indication that one has gone past the allure. A Western kid striking up a conversation and making sure he is noticed is another way of dealing with the awkwardness of the age and the ideas that hormones induce at that age. These are just two different ways of dealing with the situation by Western kids or by these Hindu kids. Just another viewpoint. What do you think?

Pranam.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste EM,

You might be spot on in your observations and conclusions. But here is another point of view for the same situation:

To me a firm, respectful acknowledgement of the person who says hello to you, with a hello, how are you, is an indication that you mean respect for the person and are not thinking of him/her in base terms. Avoiding/non-acknowledgement is an indication that your mind either already has, or may develop ideas that you don't want it to, if you saw or acknowledged the person. It is a weakness that the person may either be trying to hide or trying to overcome. In either case, the person being ignored has been objectified and brought down a notch from a fellow human being who deserves respect. A timid ignoring at that age is a way of dealing with the hormones, and not necessarily an indication that one has gone past the allure. A Western kid striking up a conversation and making sure he is noticed is another way of dealing with the awkwardness of the age and the ideas that hormones induce at that age. These are just two different ways of dealing with the situation by Western kids or by these Hindu kids. Just another viewpoint. What do you think?

Pranam.

Vannakkam: You could be right. I'd have to be a mind reader. In general though, not always, I have noticed less raging hormones in Hindu kids. These boys didn't purposely ignore the girls; they were just so entrenched in their conversation they didn't notice. Even if the kids sit together for prasadam lunch after the puja, there just seems to more humanity that hormones, if you know what I mean.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

Even if the kids sit together for prasadam lunch after the puja, there just seems to more humanity than hormones,...

Concur.
That is the essence of religion - helping one to raise his/her consciousness to the level where one could experience, in Saidevo's terms (from his previous post), 'knowledge of Reality'. Unfortunately, most religions fail that test.

I wasn't there; so my perception about the behavior of the two youth in your story was a bit different.

Pranam.

[Seeker123]

There is nothing I have seen in Hindu scriptures that state one needs to practise Brahmacharya for Moksha. Of course sanyasins practice Brahmacharya but it is stated that one can attain Moksha even from Grihastasrama. Remember all our sages - Atri etc were married and had children.

[Eastern Mind]

There is nothing I have seen in Hindu scriptures that state one needs to practise Brahmacharya for Moksha. Of course sanyasins practice Brahmacharya but it is stated that one can attain Moksha even from Grihastasrama. Remember all our sages - Atri etc were married and had children.

Vannakkam: This depends on sampradaya, I presume, since it contradicts teachings I have heard.

Aum Namasivaya

[Seeker123]

Vannakkam: This depends on sampradaya, I presume, since it contradicts teachings I have heard.
Aum Namasivaya

Yes based on what I have read in Advaita. Leave alone married sages our Puranas had characters like Rishaba, Janaka and Priyavarta who were self realized but lived the life of Grishastas. It is said that after gaining wisdom one can continue in Grihasta in which case he should follow all duties so as not to mess up the harmony.

[Eastern Mind]

Yes based on what I have read in Advaita. Leave alone married sages our Puranas had characters like Rishaba, Janaka and Priyavarta who were self realized but lived the life of Grishastas. It is said that after gaining wisdom one can continue in Grihasta in which case he should follow all duties so as not to mess up the harmony.

Vannakkam: Actually I've never heard of any of these characters.
Here are some comments on brahmacharya by Swami Sivananda.

http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/brahmacharya.htm

I am not doubting what you have read, and indeed some sampradayas believe what you have said. I just don't share the same belief, but I don't see that as problematic. One of the beauties of Hinduism is its vastness.
A few hundred lifetimes from now, perhaps I'll figure it out for real.

Aum Namasivaya

[Seeker123]

EM,

Rishaba was Vishnu avatara with sole aim of showing one can lead a Grihasta life and be self realized - at least that is what the Bhagavata Purana book by Kamala Subramaniam that I have states.

Janaka was Sita's Dad. Atri is well known sage. Priyavarta was Brahma's grandson. Actually he wants to become a Sanyasi but Brahma tells him he can be a Grihasta and be self realized and convinces him to take rulership. Even Vashishta had 100 sons.

At a large level if a religion had a goal that can be attained only when one takes Sanyasa it can lead to people losing interest in their Grihasta duties. Is it not?

[Eastern Mind]

At a large level if a religion had a goal that can be attained only when one takes Sanyasa it can lead to people losing interest in their Grihasta duties. Is it not?

Vannakkam: Not at all. Maybe within an Abrahamic context, where reincarnation isn't considered as fact. But the way I see it, and have been taught, it's kind of like being polite and taking turns. "You go first." comes to mind. We householders support the sannyasins, and then eventually, in one lifetime, we too will be drawn to naturally delve within, to realise the Self, in nirvikalpa samadhi, and brahmacharya will be a natural state at that time.

The sannyasins, in turn, support us, with their wisdom and guidance.

Do we have a problem with women being the only ones who can give birth? Isn't that denying half the population that experience?

Not if you see the soul on a mala, instead of on a bead. This soul did have that opportunity, perhaps even last lifetime, or the one before that. I just can't remember it too well.

I'm not trying to argue here, just giving my POV. If you want to believe that you can raise awareness permanently up the sushumna without celibacy, go for it.

Aum Namasivaya