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Thread: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

  1. #11
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    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    namaste,



    I see many christians march around hdf wearing dhoti and tilak pretending to be hindus. That's till I give them a round house flying kick and throw them out.

    Just part of everyday dharma for me.
    I've heard other posters point this out as well. Are there any people here I would know who turned out to be Christians? Just wondering because I seem to not be noticing these things; perhaps I'm just highly unobservant.

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    Please, this is HDF, not OffTopic.com And, it is wonderful to make these undercover christians uncomfortable in their disguises and out them!
    I can imagine it is. I just hope we don't start fighting amongst ourselves. We Hindus seem to have a sad talent for not getting along with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    Sanjaya, you touch on a good point that is far deeper than the outer descriptions of violence and terror in abrahamic faiths that seem to be followed only apparently by muslims today. However, it is, IMO, the christians who are far more dangerous than jihadi muslims. Let me explain.

    A jihadi muslim is an overt and vociferous promoter of Islam and will never stoop to taking on the identity of other faiths to trap others for conversion and/or destruction. In other words, we, as non-muslims, can easily identify the enemy. Once identified, the enemy is always easier to fight and oppose.

    Fundamentalist christians are highly devious and masters of subterfuge. They too have been genocidal in their relatively short history wiping out civilizations and cultures far older and better than theirs however, in the 20th century, they have largely gone underground. That too, only in the latter half of the 20th century. These scum (missionaries, christian apologists and fanatics) are like trojan horses. They are known to be deceptive in their outer demeanor, far removed from the usually emotional and violent jihadi, and they use this to their advantage to win the trust of unsuspecting people.

    The most important thing to realize is that all abrahamic faiths, including the jews, are founded on self-importance and exclusivity. No matter how flowery their words are or how "nice" they may seem, the underlying philosophy is that of a jingoistic nature. This is the start of all conflicts.

    To say that christians are better, especially compared to muslims, is highly erroneous IMO. For example, western corporations tried to patent Basmati rice, grown and made in India for millenia, in order to capitalize the market on it and prevent others from growing it freely. This is a method of stealing and robbery. One does NOT have to break into a convenient store with a gun and demand money to be classified as a "robber". Likewise, just because we don't hear of christians "beheading anyone" (they do shoot people however and we'll get to that later) does not absolve them of their atrocities and crimes.

    The christians, especially those in the west, have enormous disdain for muslims who are supposed to have descended from the same bastard Abraham. This is simply a racist ideology because they believe in almost all the same things like the adam/eve myth and some YAHOO god in the sky. The jews are tolerable compared to the other two because they are not as violent culturally or physically. Yet, they are at the forefront of academia and other institutions denigrating India through so-called scholarship. This too, IMO, is violence.

    As you've aptly pointed out, the NLFT is a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST organization. They work in collusion with the naxalites (commies) in India along with the jihadis to harm Hindus. The NLFT has been caught going village to village threatening people with conversion (to christianity) with AK47s and other weapons. How come we don't hear of that on CNN? Even if those incidents are sporadic, the christians are attacking Hindus culturally with much more support and fervor than muslims.

    See, the bottom line is, I prefer an honest robber than a lying, thieving, and conniving one. We're better off without either of them but to say the latter is better because of their outwardly appearance and behavior is simply foolhardy.
    I can understand that. And I do appreciate your argument. I too can notice from looking at history that Christians have eliminated more cultures through conversion than Muslims have through violence. At the same time, I am hard-pressed to say that the Muslim beheading a reporter on television is preferable to the Christian roaming through India converting us. The Christians do more long term damage, but I feel the Muslim is worse.

    Alas, you and I are both opposed to Christianity and Islam. At some level it's just pointless to argue which religion is worse. Both religions have mostly bad attributes. Perhaps they have a few redeeming ones as well, but Abrahamic faiths are still more trouble than they are worth.

    On a sidenote, you have convinced me about one thing. I've never thought of Judaism as terribly threatening. But as you say, Jews are vastly overrepresented in academia, the same academia which degrades Hinduism. This too is dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    To the people who feel jesus and/or christianity has valid points, do they feel the same way about islam and muhammad and the quran? Or what about moses and the torah/talmud?
    This is perhaps an issue that deserves its own thread. The Torah and Quran are similar books. Both have some bits of wisdom, but these gems are buried within a lot of dirt (i.e. divine mandates for genocide). From what I've read of the Talmud, it's quite a bit better. The New Testament also has some good moral teachings, but they are interlaced with commands for conversion.

    Really, Hindus are better off just reading and learning from Hindu Scriptures. We have so many holy texts that it would take a lifetime to read them all (unless someone is paying you to do this eight hours a day). Why waste time on the Abrahamic texts? It's only worthwhile if you plan to debate these people.

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    If you dig a little deeper, they will freely criticize muslims and islam but keep jesus on a pedestal. All three of the abrahamic religions, their followers, and their scriptures are absolute trash. This is the fundamental fact of the matter. Anyone who claims to be Hindu and clings on to any of them is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    Careful, "wolves in sheep's clothing" is a quote from the Bible.

    Anyway I see your point, a person who bashes Islam and has nothing to say about Christianity is suspect. Nor should Hindus hold Christian scriptures with too much reverence, since at the end of the day we are Hindus and not Christians.

  2. #12

    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    Please, this is HDF, not OffTopic.com And, it is wonderful to make these undercover christians uncomfortable in their disguises and out them!



    Sanjaya, you touch on a good point that is far deeper than the outer descriptions of violence and terror in abrahamic faiths that seem to be followed only apparently by muslims today. However, it is, IMO, the christians who are far more dangerous than jihadi muslims. Let me explain.

    A jihadi muslim is an overt and vociferous promoter of Islam and will never stoop to taking on the identity of other faiths to trap others for conversion and/or destruction. In other words, we, as non-muslims, can easily identify the enemy. Once identified, the enemy is always easier to fight and oppose.

    Fundamentalist christians are highly devious and masters of subterfuge. They too have been genocidal in their relatively short history wiping out civilizations and cultures far older and better than theirs however, in the 20th century, they have largely gone underground. That too, only in the latter half of the 20th century. These scum (missionaries, christian apologists and fanatics) are like trojan horses. They are known to be deceptive in their outer demeanor, far removed from the usually emotional and violent jihadi, and they use this to their advantage to win the trust of unsuspecting people.

    The most important thing to realize is that all abrahamic faiths, including the jews, are founded on self-importance and exclusivity. No matter how flowery their words are or how "nice" they may seem, the underlying philosophy is that of a jingoistic nature. This is the start of all conflicts.

    To say that christians are better, especially compared to muslims, is highly erroneous IMO. For example, western corporations tried to patent Basmati rice, grown and made in India for millenia, in order to capitalize the market on it and prevent others from growing it freely. This is a method of stealing and robbery. One does NOT have to break into a convenient store with a gun and demand money to be classified as a "robber". Likewise, just because we don't hear of christians "beheading anyone" (they do shoot people however and we'll get to that later) does not absolve them of their atrocities and crimes.

    The christians, especially those in the west, have enormous disdain for muslims who are supposed to have descended from the same bastard Abraham. This is simply a racist ideology because they believe in almost all the same things like the adam/eve myth and some YAHOO god in the sky. The jews are tolerable compared to the other two because they are not as violent culturally or physically. Yet, they are at the forefront of academia and other institutions denigrating India through so-called scholarship. This too, IMO, is violence.

    As you've aptly pointed out, the NLFT is a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST organization. They work in collusion with the naxalites (commies) in India along with the jihadis to harm Hindus. The NLFT has been caught going village to village threatening people with conversion (to christianity) with AK47s and other weapons. How come we don't hear of that on CNN? Even if those incidents are sporadic, the christians are attacking Hindus culturally with much more support and fervor than muslims.

    See, the bottom line is, I prefer an honest robber than a lying, thieving, and conniving one. We're better off without either of them but to say the latter is better because of their outwardly appearance and behavior is simply foolhardy.

    Look at the many instances of members of HDF who had to be banned because they were christians in disguise. There were a couple of muslims too but the preponderance of christians who pretend to be Hindus or even ones who may genuinely be interested in Hinduism but still cling on to that worthless toilet paper bible and charlatan jesus is far greater than that of muslims who do the same.

    To the people who feel jesus and/or christianity has valid points, do they feel the same way about islam and muhammad and the quran? Or what about moses and the torah/talmud?

    If you dig a little deeper, they will freely criticize muslims and islam but keep jesus on a pedestal. All three of the abrahamic religions, their followers, and their scriptures are absolute trash. This is the fundamental fact of the matter. Anyone who claims to be Hindu and clings on to any of them is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    Outer appearances can be deceptive; remember, "eternal vigilance is the price of (true) liberty!"
    All said and done...

    Just came across this today. Thought of posting it.

    And he was a Brahmana by birth apparently. yup, yup, I can see the smartness and demeanor from his face...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-VElnzbcF0

    note how he "criticizes" Brahmin caste, formal preists and Manu Smriti.

    I have watched both Christian and Muslim videos where the person was an ex-Hindu (almost always a Brahmana ) And this is by far the most elaborate, well-thought-out, deliberately feigned to be as convincing as possible and most harsh in criticising Hinduism that I have seen.

    I know exactly where and how this is bollocks. And I think you can figure this out well for yourself too. I don't have to say much. Its the usual "idols cannot help themselves, we worshipped them, how could they help us" and "prophets of Allah, as servants of Allah giving revelations to us, make more sense than God incarnating" usual stuff, which they assume of Hinduism as usual

    1) something to claim that is a practice of Hinduism, which really is not present or mandated within Hinduism, and then explain its "absurdity" and replace that with what Islam offers as apparently being better

    you will find thats its very much to do with the traditional Quranic critique of Arabic paganism.

    Find fault from the idolators/polytheists - (Hindus are idolators/polytheists)

    criticise Hinduism same old like how Quran condemns Arabic paganism

    and use that as a way of serving Islam as being "the one true religion"

    Hinduism has these "absurdities" and Islam offers what is proper/better, as a response to these "absurdities"

    2) praising of Islam and all things related to it in as compelling and positive manner as possible

    I agree that Christians resort to petty shameless deception more than Muslims do in trying to convert. But atleast Christians are not as vicious as Muslims. They have mellowed down over the years. So they are less to worry about. The fact that a Hindu can go to America or Europe and openly practice Hinduism and pray in temples constructed there over say in Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where no infidel is allowed to confidently express his religious identity or practice his religion in public pretty much sums it up.

  3. #13

    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    I can start crying right now.
    This tactic has been adopted for quite some time now in India, and it seems now due its success, is being promoted in west to be used against Hindus in the west. Sita Ram Goel wrote about Christian Ashrams decades ago, and in the south the temple like appearence and some apparantly similar rituals to Jesus are being carried out daily to entice the hindus.

    However, can such tactics alone be blamed? Is it not that, being a Hindu now simply means to attend temples, aaratis, bells and chants and go through or see through the motions of a ritual. Is there any thought and heart behind what we do? Has not the thousands of years of orthodoxy and brahmanical hagemony effectively kept the common people off from understanding & appreciating the significance of any ritual?

    Such a system is prone to attack of Trojans, and one cannot always simply blame the Trojan, ignoring the shortcomings of the society and its practices.

    Someone was praising the greatness of orthodoxy, and I never got around to showing its great pit falls (apart from the fundamental inequality it breeds). And there are many many more.

    Coming back to the point, being piloted in the South (Tamiz Land in particular), the tactic is now being applied in other parts of India as well. In Bengal, Shani Puja is very popular on small road side temples on Saturdays. Someone told me that he saw exactly similar got up created for puja of Jesus on sunday evenings in one area of Calcutta - probably a pilot project of christists.

    Only 2 ways to get out of this.

    1) Make religion available to common man as a practioner (with understanding) and not merely a dumb witness and financer to the gestures of high priests of orthodoxy. It is really the time to throw those discriminating and completely outdated dharma shastras, pages from puranas and all other shastras which have been tainted by support such behaviour in the trash bin and frame a few copies for historical evidence and academic interests.

    2) Understand Christianity and any asuric propaganda machinery for that matter, and attack jeebus, churches and christians as target for counter conversion.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  4. #14
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    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    1) Make religion available to common man as a practioner (with understanding) and not merely a dumb witness and financer to the gestures of high priests of orthodoxy. It is really the time to throw those discriminating and completely outdated dharma shastras, pages from puranas and all other shastras which have been tainted by support such behaviour in the trash bin and frame a few copies for historical evidence and academic interests.
    You make a good point, but I cannot completely agree with tearing out pages of puranas and dharma shastras. It's good to be aware of the many interpolations and know what's relevant to modern times, but if you just tear out what you don't like or don't understand, you don't know if you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The dharma shastras, itihasas and puranas are the heart of hinduism. It would be good if more critical editions were published with extensive footnotes on interpolations and explanations of controversy. The Bhagavata Purana hardly has any orthodoxy, people have figured out that it is the créme de la créme of the puranic corpus.

    I am not against a priest class that needs financial support, but maybe the priests need to do more to educate and guide the masses in religious and spiritual matters, rather than just doing a ritual and taking dakshina. Christians have their bible study groups and sermons. Hindus have their pravachans, but study groups are a little less common. In the Netherlands there is one mandir that offers Gita study groups, more mandirs should take an example of that.

    2) Understand Christianity and any asuric propaganda machinery for that matter, and attack jeebus, churches and christians as target for counter conversion.
    I cannot agree more. Hinduism is like the pure waters of the ganga in the high mountain tops. Christianity is poison. Even if you have a glass full of pure ganga water, a drop of poison will make it undrinkable. We have many role models in Hinduism, there is no need for Jesus to teach about dharma.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 03 January 2011 at 06:33 AM.

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    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Greetings and namaste. TatTvamAsi brings up some points that seem so important. With Muslims, especially the Hanafis and Hanbalis, you know what their thoughts are towards anyone else. To us, infidels. To other Muslims, apostates. The Quran and the Hadiths and the Sunnah are pretty straight forward regarding how the Muslims are to behave towards us. Even the concept of Taqiyya is pretty straight forward. These followers are all from and with God, so I pray for them.

    I have read the Talmud. Sure do not have the knowledge to fully understand many things but the things I understand is that worded differently, not much different then within Islam's scripture. Regarding the "Old Testament", is what it is.

    TatTvamAsi's points towards Christianity are something have been thinking about and do not have confidence of the above statements. I think it is complicated and do not understand. The excuse of Constaintine and the Crusades, the vileness towards the Jewish people of Martin Luther, and the sickness that John Calvin has spread to this present age, still does not account for actions of Christians today. As a child in SD think it is ego driven. A preacher preaches and they go out to do their thing. If face resistance, they have not worked towards understanding (not part of the theology), they go to default of ego and are angered. From there they go to one of the most human instincts, rationalization. From this point there is no difference between them and others except in behavior.
    Over last few weeks just been overwhelmed that WWW sites (with exception of Islam and Christian sites bashing each other) that bash the Sanatana Dharma is huge. I can not explain my very real sadness with this new realization. $$$$$ and ideology?
    I agree with TatvamAsi. Do not think it matters if prescribed strategy as per Islam is same, but results are the same.
    TatvamAsi, if in anyway I have distorted what you were conveying, I apologize.

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    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    @OP

    I went to your link, read a few lines and left. All the lines there are taken out of context completely. Like when it says "Jesus recommends cutting out eyes and hands" the person obviously has a sinister intent when the actual passage refers to Jesus saying if your eye causes you to sin, metaphorically cut it out because it is better to have eternal life with one eye, than eternal life.


    I'm not defending the doctrine based off of the text, I'm showing that if someone uses deliberately deceptive tactics against Christianity, one doesn't gain anything.

  7. #17

    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    I agree that Christians resort to petty shameless deception more than Muslims do in trying to convert. But atleast Christians are not as vicious as Muslims. They have mellowed down over the years. So they are less to worry about. The fact that a Hindu can go to America or Europe and openly practice Hinduism and pray in temples constructed there over say in Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where no infidel is allowed to confidently express his religious identity or practice his religion in public pretty much sums it up.

    Changed this stance of mine. Didn't understand exactly why the Western world was seemingly so much more tolerant of foreign religions and ethic groups and allowed them to be set up and flourish.

    TTA is absolutely right. Jihadi Muslims would rather let it be known who they are, what their intentions are, what they expect from you and when they are coming for you. They are intolerant but at least they true to themselves and others. That's why I got respect for even the worst Muslim. An enemy who hates you because you are not like him, but wants you to be exactly like him, and tells you exactly everything he expects out of you without deception or lies is a good enemy. I respect that.

    But I do wonder if they do apply some deception.

    It seems like the Saudi-funded proselytism of Islam in the West does involve some deception like how they first allowed Blacks, like the Black Panthers/Nation of Islam to have their own beliefs which are blasphemous to Islam but later trying to convince them out of this ideology/religion which is obviously heterodox to them. Like the fellows doing that in this show.

    the early part of this 11:00 onwards, he says things like "he didn't cold turkey this community"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV5DWHlHx1g

    this I'll leave it to you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzQuOkuNGg

    They'll let you do something out of sync with Orthodox Islam. Their point is to slowly get you closer and closer to their Orthodox version. In the initial stages they let you off scot-free. But with time and chance, they'll try to get to. It seems similar to the xtian strategy. Not too sure if the Saudis allowed and sanctioned that. It would seem like how they usually allow the Sufi missionary in first. And then once that culture is more "Islamized" then they take over.

    If they aren't preaching Islam straight forward without cloaking it, and instead letting you closer to it slowly and slowly. Then they are contradicting their own religious tenets. Which is to introduce you to the truth of Islam in its whole form and what it actually stands for in the here and now and this lifetime so that every person can be an Orthodox Muslim ASAP and live their lives by it but trapping you with the diluted form of it. They are going against their religion. Then I can't respect them because they aren't even being true to themselves.
    Last edited by Kumar_Das; 15 December 2012 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #18

    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    namaste,

    Red flags do go up but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
    I agree red flags should go up. Hindus need to stop being gullible. What is wrong about Hindu dharma that we need affirmation from other religions? Or that somehow if something is found in Hinduism and other religions means this thing is especially more valid? This is due to an inferiority complex to the Abrahamic status quo and that Abrahamic religions(each thinking that their own) is the undoubted truth and the standard of all religions. This is why Hindus should be proud of being Hindus. And learn to protect themselves from Anti-Hindus/Anti-Indians.

    We should have the benefit of the doubt only that perhaps someone is solely seeing the good present anywhere and appreciating them for that.

  9. #19

    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Some of you may be interested in an article I wrote for Prabuddha Bharata a couple of years ago where I critique the hypocrisy of Western readers who denounce the "violence" of the highly regulated battle among warriors that Lord Krishna enjoins in the Bhagavad Gita while turning a blind eye to the genocides endorsed in the Bible. I'll share a link if I can find one and if there is interest.

  10. #20
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    Re: Terrorism and Genocidal Violence of the Bible (New Testament)

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffery D. Long View Post
    Some of you may be interested in an article I wrote for Prabuddha Bharata a couple of years ago where I critique the hypocrisy of Western readers who denounce the "violence" of the highly regulated battle among warriors that Lord Krishna enjoins in the Bhagavad Gita while turning a blind eye to the genocides endorsed in the Bible. I'll share a link if I can find one and if there is interest.
    That would be a desirable contribution to the forum, but perhaps should be posted in the form of a new thread in a suitable sub-forum. This sub-forum 'Jalpa' is for acrimonious dead end debates.

    Pranam.

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