Evolution and Enlightenment

[Sahasranama]

No, it is not a tautology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)

You are linking to the rhetoric meaning of the word tautology. I was using it in the logical sense of the word: In logic, a statement that is unconditionally true by virtue of its form alone, is called a tautology. I think the proper rhetoric expression would be "no shi.t."

[NayaSurya]

There are many mysteries to this realm, more than I even care to uncover. But, thankfully, this is one I do not fear, nor struggle to understand.

This being, wrapped inside a rotting, flesh covered vehicle is real enough to come here and post this...

Even when this organic vessel ceases to exist, I will remain.

As my own Mother who stood before me dying, witnessed the movement of that Divine energy on that fateful day and was prescient enough to describe it....I remain.

As her own fading image came before me in a twilight vision cutting two strawberries, one tiny, bitter and green...the other as big as her hand, sweet, ripe and brilliantly red. She said...."The one's from India are better."

I was still young and did not understand this moment, until I began to dig deeper. Then this thing written down to remember was read again with the eyes of a more enlightened being and you know it made perfect sense.

Two other beings, Descartes and Kant had a portion of this same argument, albeit at different times. Descartes says I think therefore I am....and so are you because I am...I can validate you by my own existence.

Kant is a bit more particular...

He says I think...there for I am...but as for you? You're on your own. I am not egotistical enough to validate your existence. I think he almost had it. Because truly, We are not because We think. We are...and because of this... We think.

So, Boo...I can not say if you are here or not....you have to dig deep and work that out on your own.

I promise you, if you bang against the wall of your confinement cell enough....someone will come to check the lock and verify this for you. But you have to bang rather hard...

As for me? This being plunders through this realm, a portion of everything rests inside of this despicable, wretched vessel. I am a billion stories and histories. I am every name, every story, every child, every mother...every father even.

I am this and it is me and I exist enough, that I rose from sleep with the inclination to come tell you so.

One blessed, blessed, wonderful day...I will return to that greater portion, leaving this place behind. Hopefully given the chance to simply sing there at His feet for eternity.

This place is so thick with misinformation. Confused beings, in an attempt to be mentally at ease, come from all sides trying to discourage any forward movement by the portions around them. As this disturbs them greatly.

It's as if there were two great bodies of water. One higher and one lower. This lower, is a great sea of ignorance. The ones who can not swim to this higher one, grab onto the ones who can swim and try to drag them both down. Not out of malice, mostly. But, out of a desire to avoid being disturbed by witnessing this movement upward to an area they do not understand.

There's many things, such as cell phones, televisions and mortgages to make this even more difficult.

It's as if this whole world were simply hell(ignorance). Designed to keep the truth well hidden. A place where the Truth(SD) is scattered so far from this home that I have to use the internet to locate it. A place where most of what I wrote above would be considered insane by the culture around me.

I think a part of understanding this all and accepting it, is the ability to know that, to the others, we may look completely crazy and yet we still do not care.

You have to be brave and strong to release yourself from humanity's strangle hold.

[booduhklr]

Namaste,

You appear to be suggesting absolute solipsism. I accept that reality is the true a priori state. However, I do not accept that there is no atma. In any case, I should like to raise a few questions:
(i) Where does ego arise from?
(ii) If there is no underlying substratum, where does illusion arise from?
(iii) Is illusion then also an illusion?

Solipsism?! You obviously have not read a word that I have written. I am stating that I have seen that I do not exist. I am saying you can see that you do not exist if you look.

Atman=-Brahman It can be seen that this is indeed a true statement. There is only an assumption of separation.

The way the brain works, it labels and looks at small chunks of stimuli ignoring the vast majority of stimuli. It creates an illusion of separation in order to interpret and label the stimuli it senses.

If you actually look, you can see that you are nothing more than a thought in your brain. The brain actually made you up. There is no real world counterpart to you. YOU are just a thought, there is no owner of the thoughts and experiences and body that you think belongs to you. LOOK! Just look already, please?!

As for the questions about illusion, etc. First things first, look to see if there is a you, once it is seen that YOU DO NOT EXIST, you can answer these questions for yourself. Again, I am not here to get you to believe me, I am here to point to truth in the hopes that you will look for yourself.

[booduhklr]

You are linking to the rhetoric meaning of the word tautology. I was using it in the logical sense of the word: In logic, a statement that is unconditionally true by virtue of its form alone, is called a tautology. I think the proper rhetoric expression would be "no shi.t."

I am not here to debate anyone. I am here to point at truth. You seem to consider yourself a philosopher of some sort. Philosophy is, or at least should be the search for truth.

I am saying it is true that YOU DO NOT EXIST. Look at this statement, tear it apart. Do your best to prove to yourself that it is false. This statement is true any way you look at it.

There is experience and thought and action, but no self that owns these things. You are a thought in your head, there is no real world counterpart to you. Your brain made you up.

[booduhklr]

There are many mysteries to this realm, more than I even care to uncover. But, thankfully, this is one I do not fear, nor struggle to understand.

This being, wrapped inside a rotting, flesh covered vehicle is real enough to come here and post this...

Even when this organic vessel ceases to exist, I will remain.

As my own Mother who stood before me dying, witnessed the movement of that Divine energy on that fateful day and was prescient enough to describe it....I remain.

As her own fading image came before me in a twilight vision cutting two strawberries, one tiny, bitter and green...the other as big as her hand, sweet, ripe and brilliantly red. She said...."The one's from India are better."

I was still young and did not understand this moment, until I began to dig deeper. Then this thing written down to remember was read again with the eyes of a more enlightened being and you know it made perfect sense.

Two other beings, Descartes and Kant had a portion of this same argument, albeit at different times. Descartes says I think therefore I am....and so are you because I am...I can validate you by my own existence.

Kant is a bit more particular...

He says I think...there for I am...but as for you? You're on your own. I am not egotistical enough to validate your existence. I think he almost had it. Because truly, We are not because We think. We are...and because of this... We think.

So, Boo...I can not say if you are here or not....you have to dig deep and work that out on your own.

I promise you, if you bang against the wall of your confinement cell enough....someone will come to check the lock and verify this for you. But you have to bang rather hard...

As for me? This being plunders through this realm, a portion of everything rests inside of this despicable, wretched vessel. I am a billion stories and histories. I am every name, every story, every child, every mother...every father even.

I am this and it is me and I exist enough, that I rose from sleep with the inclination to come tell you so.

One blessed, blessed, wonderful day...I will return to that greater portion, leaving this place behind. Hopefully given the chance to simply sing there at His feet for eternity.

This place is so thick with misinformation. Confused beings, in an attempt to be mentally at ease, come from all sides trying to discourage any forward movement by the portions around them. As this disturbs them greatly.

It's as if there were two great bodies of water. One higher and one lower. This lower, is a great sea of ignorance. The ones who can not swim to this higher one, grab onto the ones who can swim and try to drag them both down. Not out of malice, mostly. But, out of a desire to avoid being disturbed by witnessing this movement upward to an area they do not understand.

There's many things, such as cell phones, televisions and mortgages to make this even more difficult.

It's as if this whole world were simply hell(ignorance). Designed to keep the truth well hidden. A place where the Truth(SD) is scattered so far from this home that I have to use the internet to locate it. A place where most of what I wrote above would be considered insane by the culture around me.

I think a part of understanding this all and accepting it, is the ability to know that, to the others, we may look completely crazy and yet we still do not care.

You have to be brave and strong to release yourself from humanity's strangle hold.

You caught in a tangled web of stories and beliefs.

The truth could not be more simple. You do not exist. Let go of your beliefs and stories and LOOK!

[Believer]

The truth could not be more simple. You do not exist.

And neither do you!

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

What ever has been said above could be an interesting approach to lead to the truth. Yet ( and without using the śāstra-s as a guide)
it seems to me existence (sat) has gone though a whole lot of effort to produce the human-being for it (the human) not to exist.

It has produced a being that can sense the world around it, to contemplate it, to appreciate it, and for some, to realize that it
( this human experience) is an extension and exponent of It ( sat, existence itself).

That said, I look to the exponents of Reality ( of this sat) for them to inform me of the truth of this existence. Yet how can this be
if I follow and accept the premises I have read above? It is the wise that tell us of the nature of existence, and our experience to-and-with it.

So if one wishes to get tangled-up with various views that is fine. Yet the upaniṣad-s are quite clear about this sat and my relationship to It,
As are the āgama-s.

So, what do I think ? I take my direction from the following. To know the truth of existence we need to elevate our level of
understanding , our perception to see the truth. This is not a metaphor for changing ones idea or concept ( albiet it is part of it).
It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) this Supreme independent (svātantrya&#185 state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.
But the form of what?
Here is the wisdom offered and what I hope to add to the conversation. It is the 'form' of everything. This implies that solid ( body)
or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this
is the Supreme, brahman.

Now one may ask does Brahman then have a body? Does brahman have a non-body? To this I say yes. Someone tell me what
brahman is not? Could it be śūnyatā (void, emptiness) ? To this I say that śūnyatā is ākāśa (pure space) and is the element that
allows all things to exist. The upaniṣad-s call this tattva out as a key mahābhūta. Hence brahman is not even contained by this.

praṇām

words

1. svātantrya स्वातन्त्र्य- the following one's own will , freedom of the will , independence

[NayaSurya]

So, what do I think ? I take my direction from the following. To know the truth of existence we need to elevate our level of
understanding , our perception to see the truth. This is not a metaphor for changing ones idea or concept ( albiet it is part of it).
It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) this Supreme independent (svātantrya&#185 state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.
But the form of what?
Here is the wisdom offered and what I hope to add to the conversation. It is the 'form' of everything. This implies that solid ( body)
or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this
is the Supreme, brahman.

Now one may ask does Brahman then have a body? Does brahman have a non-body? To this I say yes. Someone tell me what
brahman is not? Could it be śūnyatā (void, emptiness) ? To this I say that śūnyatā is ākāśa (pure space) and is the element that
allows all things to exist. The upaniṣad-s call this tattva out as a key mahābhūta. Hence brahman is not even contained by this.

So perfectly written that I come to repeat it.

The word tangled makes me giggle when used by the OP.

What of this tool called the mind, by whom is it utilized? Who drives this car if not Beloved?

If this being was created by this functioning group of cells...then what of previous times? Before and after this existence when I was also present.

LOOK! With eyes...another grouping of cells?

As you can not "teach" this thing you speak of, I too can not show you of what I know to be true. But, I can leave you with IS UP 6-7 which says...

6- He who perceives all beings in the Self alone, and the Self in all beings, does not entertain any hatred on account of that perception.
7- When a man realises that all beings are but the Self, what delusion is there, what grief, to that perceiver of oneness?


If even one exists...then we do exist...because one is truly what we are.

[booduhklr]

And neither do you!

Yep! So, have you looked at tis and found it to be true?

[booduhklr]

So perfectly written that I come to repeat it.

The word tangled makes me giggle when used by the OP.

What of this tool called the mind, by whom is it utilized? Who drives this car if not Beloved?

If this being was created by this functioning group of cells...then what of previous times? Before and after this existence when I was also present.

LOOK! With eyes...another grouping of cells?

As you can not "teach" this thing you speak of, I too can not show you of what I know to be true. But, I can leave you with IS UP 6-7 which says...

6- He who perceives all beings in the Self alone, and the Self in all beings, does not entertain any hatred on account of that perception.
7- When a man realises that all beings are but the Self, what delusion is there, what grief, to that perceiver of oneness?


If even one exists...then we do exist...because one is truly what we are.

Yeah, keep patting each other on the back and stroking each other's egos. You are both so mired in delusion, it is sad.

Truth is not spiritual, special or pretty. It is just true. Stop looking at other's description of the state and reach it for yourself. Here, I'll show you how, look at this:

YOU DO NOT EXIST, IS THIS TRUE?

Look and find out for yourself, quite looking to others to spoon feed their realizations to you. It is useless and pathetic.