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Thread: One Humble Request Plzzz

  1. #11

    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Anatman, Yogakriya and all,

    We can feel happy that at least this forum has been able to accomodate both types of devotees without too much problem, thanks to Satay !

    We had heated but fruitful discussions with them (the ISKCONites) in the past and you can see them ( like http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5123 ) in the Advaita sub-forum here.

    OM
    Namaste Devotee!

    Yes there has been some discussions. Thanks to Satay and everyone.
    The aggression is kept at a certain limit. Also the thing is that this is Hindu Dharma forums so other people also get to have a say here, not just the HKs.
    Would it have been India Divine Audarya forum, comments contradicting HK philosophy would be removed and then consequently member blocked as there is no room for contradiction in HK philosophy. They make statement. If you don't accept, you are making Vaishnava Apradha. Simple.
    Namaskar!

    Yogkriya

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogkriya View Post
    I'm happy about that.
    Let's see the positive. There is some negative but let's not dwell on the negative and past. And we can keep shut while the HK can spread false offensive information about Shri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, all Hindus, Lord Shiva, all other "demi"-Gods and so on in the present and the future.
    Remember, if you contradict anything, you may commit the most horrible sin of "Vaishnava aparadha". So please be very careful. We just need peace.
    If your lineage, faith, Gurus, scriptures anything gets abused by the HKs, do not answer back, do not contradict, otherwise its "offensive". Just accept and be positive.

    || Om Tat Sat ||

    Yogkriya
    I do not agree to just shut up and listen to ISKCON's false offensive information about Shri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Hindus, Lord Shiva, "demi"-Gods etc.

    What has to be done is to correct their ways.

    The Great Philosophers like Shri Shankaracharya, Ramanuja etc corrected the misled public. Like-wise, we atleast try to make them understand that all spiritual methods are valid, not only the HK's method. In this way, the Guru bashing and Philosophy bashing will stop.

    If they are not corrected, it is going to damage the reputation of Sanathan Dharma. (Think of it in the long term).
    SarveSha cAdhiKAro vidYAYA ca shreyah:
    kevalaYA vidYAYA veti siddhah.


    It has been established that everyone has the right to the knowledge of Brahman and the Supreme Goal is attained by that Knowledge alone.
    Adi Shankara in Taittiriya Upanishad, Bhasya 2.2.

  3. #13
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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogkriya View Post
    Namaste Devotee!

    Would it have been India Divine Audarya forum, comments contradicting HK philosophy would be removed and then consequently member blocked as there is no room for contradiction in HK philosophy. They make statement. If you don't accept, you are making Vaishnava Apradha. Simple.
    Namaskar!

    Yogkriya
    Hahahhahaahahah, it is funny when you said "They make statement. If you don't accept, you are making Vaishnava Apradha. Simple"
    SarveSha cAdhiKAro vidYAYA ca shreyah:
    kevalaYA vidYAYA veti siddhah.


    It has been established that everyone has the right to the knowledge of Brahman and the Supreme Goal is attained by that Knowledge alone.
    Adi Shankara in Taittiriya Upanishad, Bhasya 2.2.

  4. #14

    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Quote Originally Posted by anatman View Post
    Hahahhahaahahah, it is funny when you said "They make statement. If you don't accept, you are making Vaishnava Apradha. Simple"
    Well yes. Its like an Islamic Fatwa.
    Consider the following:
    Islam: Allah is the only God. Islam is the only true religion.
    Muhammad is the last messenger of God on earth. Rest is all false.
    Christians: Jesus is the ONLY way. Nobody comes to God except through Jesus.
    Hare Krsna: "harer näma harer näma harer näma eva kevalam" that was interpreted by the followers as "ONLY chanting name of Hari can give result in Kaliyuga. No other Vedic/any other mantra can give result. No other method of sadhna etc. This also was implied to mean that no other way of sadhna. Later it turned on that no other philosophy, saint, guru is bonafide except Hare Krishna one.

    Now the Vedas don't claim such arrogance or restrictions. This is a trait of sub sects aggressively striving for independent personality recognition.
    The Vedic culture is amazingly vast, deep and all engulfing. At no point Lord Rama says this particular practice is ONLY.. etc...

    If Lord Rama and Krsna can worship Lord of the Lords - Shiva, how can it be an "offense" to Prabhupad disciples if Shiva is placed on the same altar as Krishna??? - See the contradiction between real Vedic and 'cult' mentality?

    As 'BELIEVER' hinted, we are happy to see the dialogue. Bharat Vedic culture has been proud of the culmination of multi-faceted spiritual disciplines/philosophies existing within the same bouquet. Rightly so. With the same goal of Self realization and God realization.
    The differences are external. Fools perceive the external vision limited to sensory organs alone. The wise dwell deeper within opening the divine vision perceiving the eternal within one and all.
    As the Vedas claim - Truth is one. Wise call it by many names.
    Jai Gurudev!
    Namah Shivaya!

    Yogkriya

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Consider the following:
    Islam: Allah is the only God. Islam is the only true religion.
    Muhammad is the last messenger of God on earth. Rest is all false.
    Christians: Jesus is the ONLY way. Nobody comes to God except through Jesus.
    Hare Krsna: "harer näma harer näma harer näma eva kevalam" that was interpreted by the followers as "ONLY chanting name of Hari can give result in Kaliyuga. No other Vedic/any other mantra can give result. No other method of sadhna etc. This also was implied to mean that no other way of sadhna. Later it turned on that no other philosophy, saint, guru is bonafide except Hare Krishna one.
    Very True!
    Completely agree with all of that!!

    What has to be done is to correct their ways.

    The Great Philosophers like Shri Shankaracharya, Ramanuja etc corrected the misled public. Like-wise, we atleast try to make them understand that all spiritual methods are valid, not only the HK's method. In this way, the Guru bashing and Philosophy bashing will stop.

    If they are not corrected, it is going to damage the reputation of Sanathan Dharma. (Think of it in the long term).
    Anatman, this is exactly what I try to emphasize - the long term effect of excluding/ignoring/attacking them, on the reputation of Sanatan Dharma. In fact when I bring out this point and try to bridge the gap, I am almost considered an 'agent' of the ISKCON and everyone gives me a piece of his/her mind under the guise of 'open discussion'. My point is that if someone wants to copyright a Bhagwad Gita/Bhagvatam based sampradaye as a brand new, non-Hindu organization which holds negative thoughts about other Hindu Acharyas/Gurus/Hindu Philosophers, then I have to confront him as he is stealing my Hindu religious/spiritual/cultural heritage and I must make him realize that. As you have so wisely stated, "What has to be done is to correct their ways."

    Jai Shri ShivaKrishnaRama-Vishnu-Brahman
    -
    Last edited by Believer; 12 January 2011 at 05:51 PM.

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Vannakkam: Recently when I was at Tiruchendur amongst the hordes of Murugan devotees, (about 100 000 on that day) it was interesting to watch the ISKCON people standing in the middle of the throngs trying to peddle the Tamil translation of 'BG as it is'. I really felt like inviting them inside but the queue was very long (4 hours or more) on that day. Undoubtedly they wouldn't have wanted to come with me. The stack of books certainly wasn't going down very fast and it was strangely reminiscient of the 70s days in airports. Most people just walked on by ignoring them ... too busy to get to the darshan line for Muruga's grace or to the nearby beach.

    I see know reason why any Hindu of any sect would want to convert others to his way of thinking. Isn't it enough that we all have so much commonality already? But I see it here a lot in more subtle ways, and I'm as guilty as any I suppose. Perhaps that's just the nature of any dialogue.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Welcome back, EM ! How was your trip ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Vannakkam Devotee: Trip was fine. Thanks.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Oh, for long i had wanted to write something like this !!! great Anatman !! Great !! great work !!

    I can REALLY appreciate these words of yours, as personally, i had gone deep inside HK philosophy & then came out,having gotten the truth of the things.. By truth, i mean who IS the Lord of Lords ??

    In the Maha Bharata, after Ashwathhaama's AAGNEYA Astra faisl to kill Krsna & Arjuna but annihilates a large pandava army, he asks VYASA , the reason for it.

    VYAASA says: "Sa Esha Rudra Bhaktash cha Keshavo Rudra SAMBHAVA ha"..

    Translated - This Keshava whom u r seeing here, is a great devotee of Shri Rudra & is an expansion of Shri Rudra.

    Also, in the chapter dealing with SAHASRANAAMA stotras in Mahabharata:

    BHeeshma readily gives out the VISHNU stotra but accepts his INABILITY to give SHIVA stotra & says that this Krsna, the greatest devotee of Shri Rudra, is ALONE capable of giving THAT stotra. NO mortal afflicted with old age, death,birth can give that secret stotra !! Then Krsna says that he Himself chants Shri Rudram everyday morning, as His first job...

    There are numerous instances in the Mahabharata itself to understand the Lord of Lords.....

    My humble point is that let each one follow his path SINCERELY. He cannot but come to the truth. Truth can not be hidden...

    I was a Shri Raam Bhakta who was led to Parama Shiva. Even now the very word "Raam" brings copious tears from my eyes, for it is Hanuman who is my Guru.

    Let each follow the path SINCERELY. I dont like the hindus to become like Islamists & Christians,parading their path to be the ONLY ONE..

    Om Shakti
    Giridhar








    Quote Originally Posted by anatman View Post
    This message, because of the personal attacks given in ISKCON books,lectures and also by some of the temple devotees on JagatGuru Shankara Bhagvadpada, his philosophy and his true followers.

    Firstly, I in no way am forcing the philosophy of Advaita on ISKCONites in the below views.

    Let's start, here you need to understand the history of these philosophers(in brief).

    Shankaracharya- Reinstalled Vedic sanathan dharma, as there was a decline in vedic principles and more importance was given to the rituals,
    the knowledge part of the vedas was obscured and considered immaterial.

    Ramanujacharya- He reintroduced Bhakthi, as the Bhakthi yoga marg started declining and the people were more into the Jnana marg.
    This gave rise to mere intellectual discussions with dry heart. Bhakti Yoga is one of the main paths which leads to the purification of the heart and checks the Individual's Ego.

    Madhvacharya- Introduced complete duality(Dwaitha), because there were these so-called Advaithic philosophers who were puffed up, egoistic and
    took the terms "Aham Brahmasmi" and "Tat tvam asi" literally and were posing as Gods superfically [Just like the self-styled gurus who took over ISKCON(not all the branches, only some)after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada, they misled and took advantage of the real sincere seekers for their own personal gain.]

    When I read the personal attacks on Shankara and his followers by ISKCONites, I feel dissapointed.

    These are serious accusations, terming them as Mayavadis/Impersonalists and Rascal Philosophers etc.

    When you point a finger towards others, three fingers point back at you. So check on whether you(ISKCONites) are dedicated on the path that you follow, before terming others as false.

    Please realize that the concept of Advaita is a thing to be realized(attained) and isn't a philosophy to be proved true or false based on Logic and Arguments.
    Before you term the Advaita philosophy as false, Have you atleast tried understanding the concepts of Advaita?
    It is fruitless to point fingers at Advaitists saying their path is wrong, without even following the path of Advaitha and understanding the Advaithic concepts.
    Try to understand the concepts of Advaita deeply, only then you realize the beauty of this sublime philosophy.

    Why?!! I can even quote some of the statements made by Srila Prabhupada in his books, lectures and conversations which have a core Advaithic concepts. This is not the point.

    When you have decided to follow a certain path, it is important to have faith in it. If you are thinking I am the only one who knows the truth, the others are going on the wrong path, this kind of spiritual journey leads to Nowhere and you may think you are progressing, but in actuality
    YOU ARE NOT!.

    Live and let live: Follow the Spiritual journey which your Guru has guided you to. Let others also follow their own spiritual journey. Each individual is different and he has the right to follow his own spiritual methods. Personal attacks on other philosophers and their philosophies has to be stopped.
    Attacks on other philosophers and philosophies not only weakens our Sanathan Dharma, it is also a disgrace to our great vedic religion and customs. Our communal Indian Government also have the intention
    to deride Hindu religion.


    So all I can request you(ISKCONites) is to concentrate on the path that you have decided to thread. Be more dedicated towards Krishna and the Bhakti marg. Stick to the four regulative principles and chant the Hare Krishna Mahamantra 16 rounds everyday.
    When you give out lectures on philosophy, concentrate more on the beauty of Bhakti-marg, and other brilliant scientifically explained Vedic values and thought given out by Srila Prabhupada(MINUS the attack on Shankara's philosophy and his true followers.)

    In this way, everything will be in peace.

    Thank You.

    PS: I know ISKCON's explanation of why Shankaracharya established the Monist Philosophy.
    Please go through any of the available authorized Buddhist websites, there is no case that Buddha rejected the Vedas. Most of the terms used by Buddha have their source from Vedas.
    (I can delve deeper about this, but I think the message has been put across)

    None in the past, Never in the future, will be born equal to the Greatest Guru of all Adi Shankaracharya.

    OM TAT SAT
    ******************************************
    " In the fifty letters reside the Vedas,
    In the fifty letters reside the Aagamaas,
    When one comprehends all the fifty,
    What remains are the letters Holy Five !! "

    - Tiru Mantram 965,

    by Tiru Moolar
    ******************************************

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    Re: One Humble Request Plzzz

    Quote Originally Posted by giridhar View Post
    Oh, for long i had wanted to write something like this !!! great Anatman !! Great !! great work !!

    I can REALLY appreciate these words of yours, as personally, i had gone deep inside HK philosophy & then came out,having gotten the truth of the things.. By truth, i mean who IS the Lord of Lords ??
    Thanks!!

    The intention of the post is to make the Harekrishnas to come out of their false theory that their path is the only truth and rest of the spiritual seekers like the Advaitins etc are deluded, fools and rascals.

    The Harekrishnas have to come out of their narrow, bigoted mind and try to realize the fact that all the spiritual methods are valid.

    The Vedas themselves declare that the "Truth is one; sages call it various names- Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti."

    You can make progress spiritually by having a open, un-bigoted mind. Only then can you realize the truth!

    Accusing others of their spiritual practices and philosophies will only hinder the Harekrishnas spiritual progress.

    The followers of the Buddha were advised not to believe anything without considering it properly.
    In the Kalama Sutta,the Buddha gave the following guidelines to a group of young people:
    'Do not accept anything based upon mere reports,
    traditions or hearsay,
    Nor upon the authority of religious texts,
    Nor upon mere reasons and arguments,
    Nor upon one's own inference,
    Nor upon anything which appears to be true,
    Nor upon one's own speculative opinion,
    Nor upon another's seeming ability,
    Nor upon the consideration: 'This is our Teacher.'
    'But, when you know for yourselves the certain things are unwholesome and bad: tending to harm yourself of others, reject them.
    'And when you know for yourselves that certain things are wholesome and good: conducive to the spiritual welfare of yourself as well as others, accept and follow them.'



    Great words from the Buddha, the Ninth Avatar of

    Maha-Vishnu.
    SarveSha cAdhiKAro vidYAYA ca shreyah:
    kevalaYA vidYAYA veti siddhah.


    It has been established that everyone has the right to the knowledge of Brahman and the Supreme Goal is attained by that Knowledge alone.
    Adi Shankara in Taittiriya Upanishad, Bhasya 2.2.

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