Vipassana meditation

[motivateman]

Dear All,

This is my first post here, so hello to all of you.

I'm a Hindu, but like to welcome and understand all major religions.

Although I wasn't very religious when I was younger, I'm becoming more so as I get older and enjoy reading the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and going to the mandir. I'm still learning a lot and have a lot of learning to do.

I also practice yoga and like to meditate. The type of meditation I do is just observing the breath going in and out and also vipassana which is associated with Buddhism. I find the meditation useful in a self-help sense (to help with anxiety and fear) and also to become more spiritually developed.

I'm now thinking about taking my meditation to the next level by attending a 10 day vipassana course as taught by S.N Goenka.

I just wanted to ask if any people on this forum who strongly follow the Hindu faith have attending such a course, and whether it helped you in reaching your journey to become one with God (e.g. become one with Brahman) or in your own journey of being a Hindu (whatever that is to you)?

Or did attending the course cause conflict for you?

I just wanted to know as although I really want to attend the vipassana course from a self-help perspective, I know that in Buddhism the concept of non-self and no soul is believed, which although I have respect for, do not believe in.

I would much appreciate if you could share your experiences/thoughts/comments.

Best wishes,

motivateman

[devotee]

Namaste Motivateman,

I am not sure, if I am the right person to answer your question correctly but I think I would tell you my mind. I started looking for a serious effort towards meditation some two and a half years back and was trying to figure out which one would suit me as you are doing now. Vipassana was one of the courses which was on my mind alongwith Brahmaakumaari Raajyoga and Paramhansa Yogananda's Kriya-yoga. As I have done some in-depth study of Buddhism, mostly meditational part and teachings of Mahayan Buddhism, I too had doubts as you have.

However, I figured that you should adopt one type of meditation technique and not keep switching over. Even in Vipassana beforehand they ask if you are doing some other meditation technique. So, you may have slight difficulty at a later stage if you want to switch over to Raaj-yoga because the techniques are different. On the other hand, as both the techniques are for controlling the restlessness of mind, experience in any one technique would certainly not go waste even on switching over.

The choice is yours. Best of luck ...

OM

Dear All,

This is my first post here, so hello to all of you.

I'm a Hindu, but like to welcome and understand all major religions.

Although I wasn't very religious when I was younger, I'm becoming more so as I get older and enjoy reading the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and going to the mandir. I'm still learning a lot and have a lot of learning to do.

I also practice yoga and like to meditate. The type of meditation I do is just observing the breath going in and out and also vipassana which is associated with Buddhism. I find the meditation useful in a self-help sense (to help with anxiety and fear) and also to become more spiritually developed.

I'm now thinking about taking my meditation to the next level by attending a 10 day vipassana course as taught by S.N Goenka.

I just wanted to ask if any people on this forum who strongly follow the Hindu faith have attending such a course, and whether it helped you in reaching your journey to become one with God (e.g. become one with Brahman) or in your own journey of being a Hindu (whatever that is to you)?

Or did attending the course cause conflict for you?

I just wanted to know as although I really want to attend the vipassana course from a self-help perspective, I know that in Buddhism the concept of non-self and no soul is believed, which although I have respect for, do not believe in.

I would much appreciate if you could share your experiences/thoughts/comments.

Best wishes,

motivateman

[sm78]

I am aware of an person who is an orthodox brahmin in practice with peethadhikara (i.e he is a Guru, and that too of a very exalted lineage), but still practices Vipassana. Vipassana as a technique has little animosity with so called Yoga (I don't know what exactly is Raja Yoga). Watching the breath (anapanasati) and its generalization in vipassana should be good for all. This is about the technique of Vipassana, which is well known in Theravada buddhist and not S.N Goenka's propriatory material.

Only thing to be aware of is the excess baggage in form of dogmas and organization charters these organizations attach with the practice. From what I have heard S.N. Goenka's course does some preaching against Hindu practices (may not be directly, but indirectly by criticizing rituals, 'idol' worship etc). If you are mature enough, you should be able to filter out the right things. As far as I know S.N. Goenka is not a fraud or a cultist. But you should still verify with those who have done the course.

But it should be far better than money minting scams of so called Hindu organizations who teach yoga with a huge dose of fatalism in order to create saviour cults much like christian missionaries or worse.

Dear All,

This is my first post here, so hello to all of you.

I'm a Hindu, but like to welcome and understand all major religions.

Although I wasn't very religious when I was younger, I'm becoming more so as I get older and enjoy reading the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and going to the mandir. I'm still learning a lot and have a lot of learning to do.

I also practice yoga and like to meditate. The type of meditation I do is just observing the breath going in and out and also vipassana which is associated with Buddhism. I find the meditation useful in a self-help sense (to help with anxiety and fear) and also to become more spiritually developed.

I'm now thinking about taking my meditation to the next level by attending a 10 day vipassana course as taught by S.N Goenka.

I just wanted to ask if any people on this forum who strongly follow the Hindu faith have attending such a course, and whether it helped you in reaching your journey to become one with God (e.g. become one with Brahman) or in your own journey of being a Hindu (whatever that is to you)?

Or did attending the course cause conflict for you?

I just wanted to know as although I really want to attend the vipassana course from a self-help perspective, I know that in Buddhism the concept of non-self and no soul is believed, which although I have respect for, do not believe in.

I would much appreciate if you could share your experiences/thoughts/comments.

Best wishes,

motivateman

[Sahasranama]

Officially, the retreats of Goenka do not allow you to wear any religious symbols or to do any other religious or meditative practice while you are visiting the retreat. You could infiltrate the retreat and still secretly do your mantra practice, but strictly they don't allow it and they try to make you scared that something bad is going to happen if you do any other type of practice. They tell the story that someone had to be deported to a mental institution, because he did other practices during the retreat. This is nothing but scare tactics. Vipassana is not the property of Goenka, it is practiced in all Buddhist traditions although it's the main practice in Theravada, in Mahayana it is practices along with so called "loving compassion" meditation. It also has some commonality with raja yoga, so I don't see how mixing it with other practices is going to hurt you. If you are interested in Vipassana, there is nothing wrong with learning it or going to the retreat, but I would urge you not to discontinue any mantra japa, even if it's only for ten days. You can just do some manasik (mental) mantra practice in secret for a few minutes in the morning, nobody has to know.

[realdemigod]

motivateman,
I'm a staunch devotee of Lord Shiva and I attended the 10 day course in Bangalore. It was very helpful for me. Like you mentioned you can help yourself overcoming with fear and anxiety but like others mentioned SN Goenka doesn't preach anything against Hinduism..in all the video discourses I attended every night during the 10 days.. he never criticized Hinduism..he only taught what's helpful in learning the meditation.. he shared excerpts from the life of Buddha. I don't know much about Buddhism except how to meditate - vipassana way. It really changes one's perception of this world..I have attended the course.. but I still pray to Lord Shiva everyday. So if you are firm believer in God or particularly Hinduism.. don't worry that you will become atheist.

Your question on reaching the journey .. realizing the ultimate truth.. it will take really long.. intense practice is needed.. more hours a day..should be devoted to vipassana. I think it will happen.. for sure.. since this is the same technique Lord Krsna mentions in Gita as well.

The only reason SN Goenka says not to follow any mantras during meditation is to keep the vipassana non-sectarian.. so that all human beings can use it and get rid of hatred in their lives and live happily sharing love and compassion for all living things.

I honestly feel SN Goenka is doing great for humanity.. the vipassana meditation technique along with his wisdom.. infact the wisdom of Buddha.. will make you a good human being.

But I have to say that during the lectures.. I realized some things which didn't make sense to me.. since.. I believe as I read and heard Buddhists don't believe in creator or God.. but SN Goenka in one of the lectures.. says the words came out of Buddha's mouth ..after he had realized the ultimate truth.. 'I have broken the chain of reactions.. you can't bring me back to this life' (so obviously Buddha must be talking about some Supreme Intelligence).. such things are little confusing.. but I didn't care.. all I was interested in technique and the wisdom of Buddha.

I really enjoyed the course.. I'm sure you will too.

[Sahasranama]

The only reason SN Goenka says not to follow any mantras during meditation is to keep the vipassana non-sectarian.. so that all human beings can use it and get rid of hatred in their lives and live happily sharing love and compassion for all living things.

The website mentions that they want you to give vipassana a good change and if you use other techniques, you will not be able to judge the technique properly. I am sure that this is acceptible for the modern westerner. Religious people can make an objection to this. What is the muslim going to do who has to pray five times per day and the brahmin who has to perform Sandhya Vandana? My objection is not against vipassana, but against the rule not to use any prayers or other meditation techniques during the retreat. I can understand the reason for this rule, but it remains an unacceptable constraint for some people.

Other Techniques, Rites, and Forms of Worship

During the course it is absolutely essential that all forms of prayer, worship, or religious ceremony — fasting, burning incense, counting beads, reciting mantras, singing and dancing, etc. — be discontinued. All other meditation techniques and healing or spiritual practices should also be suspended. This is not to condemn any other technique or practice, but to give a fair trial to the technique of Vipassana in its purity. http://www.dhamma.org/en/code.shtml

[devotee]

Dear Motivateman,

So, as you have seen, asking such questions on a forum like this, is sure to confuse you !

However, I think there is some advice given above which I think can harm you during the practice, if you follow. So, I would like to clarify here :

Meditation is not just for calming the mind as some people think. It goes much deeper during continuous long practice in right environment. The meditation has the power of changing your "self" as you are going to silence all the thoughts that you are made up of. Now even if you are half successful in that, you need some guidance and grace to cross the difficulties which may come accross your way depending upon your vassanas that you are carrying. These people are not wrong when they advise you to strictly follow what they say. Not only these people but in any serious meditation course (whether in Hinduism or in Buddhism) which is not "commercial" type ... you are advised to follow what your Guru says. There are two reasons for that as I told you : You need guidance and you need grace to tread this path correctly.

Let's understand what happens in Vipassana and why there is need to follow the instructions strictly :

In Vipassana you simply watch your breath as a man sitting on the bank of the river watches the flow of water in front of him unattched with the process but watching it carefully. This causes the mind to stop wandering and focus on only one thing that is coming and going of the breath. Slowly, the thoughts arising in your mind would start reducing and would be reaching sometimes to nil. This "sometimes" has to be held on & to be prolonged & try to attain "Shunyataa" which brings us to the "primal state" which is the goal of this meditation.

Let's remember that there is no God here, there is no mantra except, of course, the grace of Guru/guide to help you. Now, the above meditation is harmless but as you can notice the goal ... it has the power to strip you of all vassanas, impressions of this & last lives & bring you to the primal state and here lies a little danger. The thoughts make us wild but the thoughts make our "I" strong" which keeps you fit to fight attack of negative vibrations .... but when the thoughts are stripped away like this, you may be susceptible to negative vibrations and can be attracted to unwanted realms. There you need guidance and grace of Guru/guide.

So, please follow what your Guru says. If you go for this course, I would advise you to strictly observe the rules that they lay down. Practising vipassana at home for a few minutes and practising it at camp for 10 days without any interaction with anyone except with the Guru/guide is entirely different. If you fail to focus then there is no harm in doing it or any meditation without a Guru/guide (then you will be coming back with a calmer mind) ... the problem is when you are likely to succeed (which can change the "you" in you).


I hope it helps.

OM

[Sahasranama]

A buddhist meditation teacher is not your guru as a Hindu, he is simply an adhyapaka (teacher). Your diksha guru might have given you mantra diksha maybe during upanayana (janeu), you should by no means discontinue this practice because an adhyapaka says so. If you did not have mantra diksha, there is no problem and you can do as devotee says, but don't buy into his scare tactics. There is no danger in combining mantra japa with vipassana, the mahayana buddhists have no problem doing this.

[motivateman]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your all responses. It was very interesting to read about your experiences and read your comments.

My faith is God is strong enough, so I don't need to worry about being 'converted' as I had some doubts initially.

It's the technique I'm going for.

Thanks again to all and for helping me clear up my doubts.

I will let you know how it goes

Om Namah Shivaya!

With best wishes,

mm

[Muad'Dib]

Motivateman-

I practice vipassana with a local community. It's been a useful tool for calming my mind and putting life into perspective. Bear in mind, though, that it really only does what the Buddha said it does - provide insight into our attachments, help us identify and let go of what is unhealthy, and then clarify our relationship with everything else. Vipassana does a great job of showing how currents flow together, create a moment and then the moment is gone - and we're left feeling betrayed by the thought that we deserved more stability, that we've somehow earned the right to stagnate (under the title of "enjoying the fruits of our labors"). With time, that understanding has helped me to face my negative attachments.

However, it's done little to address the "sat-cit-ananda" core of who I am. I still believe that underlying this flesh, and even underlying this personality of varying emotions, there is a "me" - and I know it because of the genuine value and enduring quality of the positive emotions/relationships that I've seen and been a part of. I know it because of the spontaneous and causeless goodness that I've seen in others and occasionally in myself. In fact, my vipassana practice has done nothing to knock down my belief in atma. It's only done a great job of showing what's not an essential to my life.

Having come to that point, the pruning is great, but I think it's important to have some more affirmative answers and be able to take more positive steps to nourish your soul.

All the best,

Jesse