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Thread: One stop enlightenment ?

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    One stop enlightenment ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    There seems to be an opinion held by some that I have talked to that enlightenment (mokṣa, kevala) is a one-stop condition.
    That is, one goes from ignorance ( bonded awareness to the body & senses) to the fullest blossoming of Being or satatoditam,
    without break or pause - the contiguous level of Being on every strata of creation being experienced. In one swoosh, one is picked up
    from delusion of multiplicity and is deposited in a level of profound consciousness that is smothered in pāramārthikasattā¹ .

    This is a beautiful idea and no doubt the last stop of the journey, yet it is not the first stop. Just as one boards a train to go to a destination,
    there are several stops the train makes before the final arrival of one's goal.

    What may be some of the stops along the way? We has human-beings can have multiple experiences:
    • Pure ignorance - only thinking what we see is all there is ; not even aware of the possibility of another or the Supreme.
    • Some knowledge - still the identification with the body , but with the knowledge there is more to existence then meets the eye
      (and is in pursuit of it)
    • Self-awareness - the breaking of the identification with the body and the relationship with Self ( or ātman).
      One is able to go beyond ( transcend, atīndriya&#185 the senses and experience silence itself.
    • I am the universe - having the experience that all this that surrounds you is an extension of and a personal direct experience of your Self.
      This is an outward-facing experience. This some call the unity-in-diversity experience. There is unity of all things, and there is the delight
      of diversity that is experienced.
    • I am - this experience is that of I am all that there is.
    • I - this is just pure 'I' and nothing else, ahaṁ. We can think of this as nyāyena - from the root ni that into which a thing goes
      back i.e. an original type , standard. Now it is my understanding that this level of experience is beyond the body. Some call this
      ( as I understand it) maha-samādhi and is without the body (śarīra).
    If one cares to read more about the consciousness part of this discussion, the following HDF post on turīya¹ may be of some value: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312

    praṇām

    words
    • pāramārthikasattā = (seated) in the highest being, existence ~brahman~
      • pārama - chief , highest , primary , most prominent or conspicuous
      • ārthika - pertaining to the true substance of a thing ; real
      • sattā - Being, existence; note that satta ( without ā ) means seated
    • atīndriya - beyond the cognizance of the senses
    • Turīyātīta is turīya + atīta : turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Thank-you for starting this thread and especially for the reminder that it IS a process. Very valuable indeed.

    Om Namah Sivaya!

    Clayton

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namaste Clayton


    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    ...it IS a process. Very valuable indeed.

    Om Namah Sivaya!
    I had a friend that had an experience of going from ignorance to a higher level of Being. Through his practices he was deposited in a very high level of consciousness. He knew something occurred but was not prepared. He was not sure of the experience. He had no formal training or study for a frame of reference. Hence his experience continued for some time yet could not rationalize it.
    After some time, he came back to duality. He then was not motivated to continue his sādhana.


    This is the power of knowledge & experience. It prepares one accordingly for higher states of Being. My teacher says it takes some getting use to as there is a marked transition in perception of the world and how you fit into it ( or how it fits in to you).

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 05 November 2014 at 05:24 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Vannakkam: My limited understanding is that even after the realisation of the self, it is still a process. My teacher often said "This is just the beginning" referring to the soul's evolution. Self-realisation is the goal, yet that is for the embodied beings on the planet. Afterwards, well who knows? Certinly two samadhis are referred to, nirvikalpa, and savikalpa (sp). But as yet, I personally take little interest in this as the understanding of where I am on the path tends to override the thoughts of such lofty goals, as all need to learn how to control emotions, teach myself how to relax enough to get a good night's sleep, and work on self-discipline. Reality sets in, and Yajvan, the example of your friend is astute to me. We are really more mundane than we sometimes think.

    Aum Namasivaya

  5. #5

    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Mr.Easternmind,

    I fully agree with you.

    Self realisation is the goal.

    But it is not an end by itself. It is definitely a milestone.

    Other religions doesn't accept that God is within you. Advaitha philosophy of Hindu religion says God is within you.

    Thirumandiram says `Ullam Oru Perungoyil Oon Udambu Alayamam' - meaning Human body is the biggest temple.

    I earnestly feel that there is no limit for journey inwards.

    All the best
    'Let Noble Thoughts come to us from all sides' Rigveda 1-89-i.

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast EM


    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    But as yet, I personally take little interest in this as the understanding of where I am on the path tends to override the thoughts of such lofty goals, as all need to learn how to control emotions, teach myself how to relax enough to get a good night's sleep, and work on self-discipline. Reality sets in, and Yajvan, the example of your friend is astute to me. We are really more mundane than we sometimes think.
    Yes, I see your point. Where you are at on the path tends to trump any other notions, yet I tend to think of it like this: If one is travelling and does not know where they're going, then any road will take you there. (I am not intimating that you do not have a path) .
    It is great to have a road map to chart one's course. It is even better to have a guide. Many here ( on HDF) may have one or the other or both, yet some have none.


    It seems to me then a noble offer HDF can provide is to to bring various principles to the forefront for one's inspection and consideration. Above all to inspire and allow one to question the notions of mokṣa or kevala.

    RVR offers,
    Self realisation is the goal.
    Yes, but I look at it a bit differently ( not opposed, just a different angle). Self-realization is a goal, but not the final destination as you also mention
    I earnestly feel that there is no limit for journey inwards.


    What am I inferring then? There are mutiple levels/layers one can experience. Knowing the Self is the beginning. When I say 'know' this is on the experiential level, personal and profound direct experience.

    Yet from there, there is more to experience and this Self-awareness stablized in one's experience 7x24x365 is the 'gate' the enterance to more integrated levels of Being within one's self.
    Much more can be said about this, but it would be inapprprite to advance the idea in this 'New To Sanata Dharma' folder.


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast EM


    Yes, I see your point. Where you are at on the path tends to trump any other notions, yet I tend to think of it like this: If one is travelling and does not know where they're going, then any road will take you there. (I am not intimating that you do not have a path) .
    It is great to have a road map to chart one's course. It is even better to have a guide. Many here ( on HDF) may have one or the other or both, yet some have none.
    Vannakkam Yajvan: I agree totally. You do need a road map. (At least I personally find it beneficial) But when we drive along the road, we are always at point A in the present moment. As I drive from Edmonton to Los Angeles, I have to cross through Calgary, the border, Salt lake City, Las Vegas etc. When I start out, I am not in Los Angeles already. So the analogy is that the cities are each varying levels of consciousness or awareness, or chakras that one must pass through. Note there are many sidetracks. A wrong turn may have me in Denver. It may be a nice place to visit, but off the direct path. Some people may not need such a map as past life karmas and experiences had them intuitively knowing where to head.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Enlightenment is a multi-level process. The seven or fourteen worlds described in the shAstra relate to the fourteen stages of evolution.

    Note what the gIta says:

    manuShyANA.n sahasreShu kashchidyatati siddhaye
    yatatAmapi siddhAnA.n kashchinmA.n vetti tattvataH

    Out of many thousands among men, one may strive for siddhi or perfection, and of those who have achieved siddhi, hardly one knows Me in truth.

    The implications of this statement are that only very few people truly strive for perfection. Of them, only a handful become enlightened. Even among the enlightened, there are many grades of enlightenment, and the evolution of every soul continues for a very long time before complete enlightenment is attained. It is only when we make our first break-through from ordinary earthly consciousness into a supramental level that we realize that there are many levels to cross before we come to the same level as the Lord. manuShyas, gandharva, pitR, rAjaRishi, Rshi, mahaRshi, brahmaRshi, indra, brahma etc are various ladders (each successive level is associated with an increased erosion of the ego which is the cause of bondage) that need to be crossed before attaining the ultimate perfection.

    I don't think one needs to worry about all these. At each step only worry about what to do at present, just like we did while at school. The rest will work itself out.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post

    I don't think one needs to worry about all these. At each step only worry about what to do at present, just like we did while at school. The rest will work itself out.
    Vannakkam Sudarshan: I find this so astute. The hidden danger of not listening to this advice is the possibility of deluding oneself into thinking we are at a far higher level than we are. Nothing more than spiritual ego acting away. But in due time the karmic lessons do manifest into higher realities, I hope anyway.

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    Re: One stop enlightenment ?

    My son said something so simple to me this morning that it reminded me of this conversation.

    I remember the pride of graduating kindergarten, it felt as if everything had been achieved. But, as the Summer waned...I was thrust into the first grade and began the difficult task of mastering reading and math....the ego once again in check as I realized I was in the midst of a long uphill climb.

    Going from sixth grade elementary to junior highschool was another proud moment. Finally out of uniforms and into a big kid school....my children think how cool it will be...until they have a mountain of algebra homework piled on them every evening....again the ego diminishes.

    That proud moment I watched my own son walk across the podium of our large football stadium to take his highschool diploma last Spring...such a happy day for him and I.

    He felt on top of the world....everything set so firmly. But once again the Summer wanes and he is faced with psychology and anthropology...mid terms and finals....bad room mates and snow days...his ego is firmly back in check.

    and even me...when in that moment the tears flowed in relief for bringing this child up with awareness and seeing him finish this difficult task...I did take a moment to feel pride and happiness....but as the Summer waned and books must be bought for this child, computers, dorm refrigerators...trips to and fro....mid terms, finals and snow days...the ego once again in check as I realized I was in the midst of a long uphill climb with the reality that my job is never finished.

    It's hard not to do a lil dance in the "in zone" (Go Green Bay) of life from time to time....but as the sun rises to greet us...there will always be another challenge waiting...so it's best not to waste the energy.

    For no matter how much you think you know or have seen....there is always more.

    Having children is an extremely humbling experience, I recommend it.
    Last edited by NayaSurya; 23 January 2011 at 07:50 AM.

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