Krishna's Real Nature

[SanathanaDharma]

Dear Friend,

In order to understand the Yoga Aishvara of Paramathma, lets make a humble attempt....

Sri Keshava says Bhagavad Gita 9.4

maya tatam idam sarvam
jagad avyakta-murtina

the most important term here is "Avyaktha murtina"...lets understand in detail....

what - idam sarvam jagat...this entire Universe
by whom - mayaa tatam...is prevaded by Me
how - avyaktha murtina....lets understand the term avyaktha...
.the term vyaktha indicates identification of individuality...individuality can be considered only when a boundary exists..everything within the boundary, then can be considered as vyaktha or an individual entity....
avyaktha..means that which cannot be distinctly or individually recognised
- how? this is because there is no boundary...
- why? because Parabramha is infinite and anything that is infinite
cannot be defined in a boundary and hence there is no individuality or vyaktha...

now, Paramathma also uses yet another term murtina...murti very roughly indicates
model...as Parabramha is infinite...and as infinity is
boundless, Parabramha, is modelled as infinite boundlessness, or avyaktha murti

to summarize...this entire universe is prevaded by Me who is modelled as the boundless infinity

mat-sthani sarva-bhutani
na caham tesv avasthitah

mat sthani...sthana is location or place....mat sthani means accommodated or placed in Me
sarva bhuthani....every bhutha....
aham na avastithaha teshu...lets understand the term avasthithaha after the next section....

everything is accomadated in Me, but I am not "avastithaha" in them....

now comes the most interesting part...how are we supposed to understand this...
Sri Hrishikesha Himself gives us an example to help us understand this beautiful point in Bhagavad Gita 9.6

yathakasa-sthito nityam
vayuh sarvatra-go mahan
tatha sarvani bhutani
mat-sthanity upadharaya

the most important term here is "Aakasha"...

upadharaya...understand

yatha aakasha...Just like in the Aakasha or Sky,
stitho nityam...is accommodated eternally...nityam indicates this is eternal...
[this answers many other questions related to the other thread regarding Jeevas, but lets not go there now]
mahan vaayuh sarvatra-gah ....that mighty wind which blows everywhere....

tatha sarva bhuthani man sthany....similarly every bhutha is accommodated in me...

lets understand in detail...Sri Vaasudeva, in this example compares

Aakasha to Him
Vaayu to bhutani

points to note:
Aakaasha or sky or space is infinite from our perspective...Aakasha is also without boundary...
standing on top of a high mountain, when we look at the sky, we can infact see the horizon of the earth, which is the boundary of earth, which makes earth a vyaktha or an individual
entity, but we cannot comprehend a boundary on the vast infinite sky..we cannot recognize individuality in sky...sky for us is modelled as avyaktha....we cannot see a boundary....
thus Paramathma uses Aakasha or sky or space as an analogy to Him...

vaayu or air or atmosphere is located in sky or space...Aakasha is prevading everywhere and vaayu is accomadated in Aakasha or sky or space....without space, air or atmosphere cannot exist...similarly in the infinity called Parabramha, everything is accommodated,
just like atmosphere is accommodated in the sky or space

coming back to the term "avastithaha"
"air" needs a space to be accommodated and thus is accommodated in the space
....where as the space itself does not need the air, or anything, to be accommodated...
similarly, all the beings need the all prevading Parabramha to be accommodated...where as Parabramha
is not in need of a place for accommodation in the bhuta ....

now comes the most interesting part...which answers your question....
when we consider the atmosphere, after the exosphere, which is the final layer of atmoshpere
or
the point after which where air does not exist, does the sky or space or Aakasha also cease to exist?....is the entire space or Aakasha filled with air?

the answer is No..."atmosphere does not exist in space"....and this, my dear friend is exactly what Sri Janardhana is saying in Bhagavad Gita 9.5...

na ca mat-sthani bhutani
pasya me yogam aishvaram

na cha...ALSO not
mat sthani bhutani....accommodated in Me....

just like wind is accommodated within the space and also is not accommodated in space
similarly
sarva bhutani are in Paramathma and are not in Paramathma...

lets understand the above mentioned statement...
so, what is the exosphere we are talking about here....
Hiranyagharbha or Bramhaanda or this prakrthi is the region where bhuthas exists

just like air exists till exosphere...beyond prakruthi..its the Avyaktha Akshara Parabramha without bhutani just like space or sky is without air.....

Just as wind is located in sky[within exosphere] and wind does not exist in sky[beyond atmosphere]

similarly bhutani exist in Parabramha[within prakruthi] and bhutani do not exist in Parabramha[beyond prakruthi]

[sunyata07]

Thank you, Sanathana Dharma for that truly brilliant post! Well-written and very clear. I'm grateful for all the answers given to me for my understanding of this seemingly paradoxical gem Krishna has revealed to Arjuna.

Namaste.

Om namah Shivaya

[proudhindu]

Pranaam Sanatana Dharma ,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.Kindly post more frequently.

[SanathanaDharma]

Pranaam sunyata07 and proudhindu,

its He who has created everything..its He who has given the knowledge, it He who is knowledge and its His words which are like nectar...this humble mind only tries to understand the knowledge again only because He makes it understand...
its a pleasure to share such knowledge with people like you....

[kallol]

Namaste,

I am having trouble trying to understand one particular passage of the Gita, whereby Krishna reveals to Arjuna that He is the Lord of the Universe, both immanent and transcendant. I have taken this verse from an English translation, so perhaps this is the reason why my understanding is flawed? I have provided the Sanskrit as well below:

B.G. 9:4
mayā tatam idaḿ sarvaḿ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
na cāhaḿ teṣv avasthitaḥ

I pervade the entire universe in my unmanifested form,
All creatures find their existence in Me, but I am not limited by them.

B.G. 9:5

na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni
paśya me yogam aiśvaram
bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho
mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ

Behold my divine mystery! These creatures do not really dwell in Me,
and though I bring them forth and support them, I am not confined within them.

What mystery is Krishna speaking of? Why does Krishna say that all things do not really dwell in Him? Does this not contradict the preceding verse? I would appreciate any opinions on this.

Om namah Shivaya

All have given excellent explainations and there is a seperate link on this subject. As this is another thread, so I will take liberty to state my understanding.

Taking analogy from light and object -

1. All objects are illuminated or are known only when they are in light. However light is not limited by the objects. Light (consciousness) pervades all.

2. Now what are objects ? It is only a namarupa (name and form) of the the permanent Brahman state. Seperately these objects do not have existence. These forms and names are not permanent. These are nothing but brahman. Like a sand castle on beach. Castle is impermanent but sand is. Castle is another form and name of the sand. Similarly the percievable creation is only name and form of brahman. These are not seperate entities.

So the names and forms do not really exist - it is only brahman that exists.

However because of consciousness, the creations of names and forms happen. Consciousness only supports them. Consciousness is not limited by them.

This theory is difficult to grasp - and is a mystery to the common men.

Love and best wishes