Christian Evangelist Father Johnson Reveals That India Embraces Christianity

[wundermonk]

Christianity on the other hand is a religion based on love for people.

It doesnt follow from this statement that other religions are not. Moreoever this statement is meaningless if you have to kill heathens and/or convert them to your brand of Christianity and then, ONLY THEN, love them.

If I lead an exemplary life (helping others, doing my Karma, providing for my family, etc.) without believing in the exclusivity of Jesus as the sole pathway to God, where do you think I will be in my afterlife? What is your religion's theological position on this issue?

An example of a person that may have led an exemplary life without believing in Jesus could be Mahatma Gandhi. Muslims and Christians tried their best to convince him to believe in the same fairy tales that they did. But the Mahatma remained Hindu. Is your position that Mahatma Gandhi burned in hell for not believing in the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost? If someone *CAN* go to heaven without believing in the Christian trinity, why convert/evangelize in the first place?

[sanjaya]

If I lead an exemplary life (helping others, doing my Karma, providing for my family, etc.) without believing in the exclusivity of Jesus as the sole pathway to God, where do you think I will be in my afterlife? What is your religion's theological position on this issue?

Christianity asserts an equality of all sins for the purpose of judgment and eternal reward/punishment. It's not an oversimplification to say that if you lead an exemplary life but stole a paper clip once when you were ten years old, you go to hell for all eternity. If one asserts this equality of all sin and eternal punishment as the default consequence, and if we accept Christian substitutionary atonement, then I suppose it makes sense that the only cure is to transfer your sin to Jesus (by converting to Christianity) so that you don't have to go to hell for it.

Christianity is logically consistent. After all it has to, they've had 2000 years to refine the theology. The problem with Christianity isn't that it's irrational, it's that it betrays our basic sensibilities about what God ought to be like. Of course there's also the numerous historical errors in the Bible (incorrect description of creation, anachronism in the story of Abraham, lack of physical evidence for the exile, lack of contemporary references to Jesus, etc.). But I think this is secondary to the problem of a God who effectively legitimizes sin by punishing all misdeeds with the same sentence. The teaching of karma agrees far better with my personal conscience, for it asserts that sins are punished proportionate to their magnitude.

I think that most evangelicals don't believe in their own religion, despite how strongly they claim to. If I believed that my family and friends were going to eternal hell unless they converted to Christianity, I would be begging them day and night to convert, and I would do little else. Most evangelicals do not make this sort of a scene, and when confronted about it, excuse themselves via the sovereignty of God in all things. I, however, find this to betray their professed belief in this most harsh Christian doctrine.

[jaggin]

It doesnt follow from this statement that other religions are not. Moreoever this statement is meaningless if you have to kill heathens and/or convert them to your brand of Christianity and then, ONLY THEN, love them.

If I lead an exemplary life (helping others, doing my Karma, providing for my family, etc.) without believing in the exclusivity of Jesus as the sole pathway to God, where do you think I will be in my afterlife? What is your religion's theological position on this issue?

An example of a person that may have led an exemplary life without believing in Jesus could be Mahatma Gandhi. Muslims and Christians tried their best to convince him to believe in the same fairy tales that they did. But the Mahatma remained Hindu. Is your position that Mahatma Gandhi burned in hell for not believing in the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost? If someone *CAN* go to heaven without believing in the Christian trinity, why convert/evangelize in the first place?

I agree. I don't think that person's attitude was coming from his religion. However I don't remember a high occurrence of love mentioned in the Vedas. It would be helpful for me to see some examples.

Killing people is rarely an act of love. Converting people is an act of love if that salvation is necessary and most Christians would agree that it is.

You will end up wherever God decides you should go.

Many Christians believe that but I do not. I can only speculate but I suspect theat Ghandi ended up being reincarnated. I doubt that he would have had a clue how to get to Heaven. Heaven is nice but I don't see it as an objective. However I don't see how a non-Christian could get there easily. I wouldn't rule out the possibility entirely for an enlightened person to get there. Conversion isn't for the purpose of going to Heaven but to eliminate sin in this life.

[charitra]

I agree. I don't think that person's attitude was coming from his religion. However I don't remember a high occurrence of love mentioned in the Vedas. It would be helpful for me to see some examples.

Killing people is rarely an act of love. Converting people is an act of love if that salvation is necessary and most Christians would agree that it is.

You will end up wherever God decides you should go.

Many Christians believe that but I do not. I can only speculate but I suspect theat Ghandi ended up being reincarnated. I doubt that he would have had a clue how to get to Heaven. Heaven is nice but I don't see it as an objective. However I don't see how a non-Christian could get there easily. I wouldn't rule out the possibility entirely for an enlightened person to get there. Conversion isn't for the purpose of going to Heaven but to eliminate sin in this life.

Himalayan academy has sent the below excerpt today, thought would be apprpriate here. Read on:

Dr. Ramdas Lamb's Take on Conversion Challenges [/font]

"The problem of conversion will be solved if the Hindu parents live and practice Hinduism in their lives. Just preaching is not enough and it is not going to work. You have to walk the talk. Parents have to silently put Hinduism in action so that the children can observe and follow them. This is how I have taught my children and it has worked very well." These views were expressed by Dr. Ramdas Lamb, Associate Professor, Dept. of Religion, University of Hawaii while speaking on the subject- "Effects of Conversion on Native Cultures and Society" at a meeting organized by Vivekananda International Foundation on Thursday, 23rd June, 2011. The event attended by a large number of intellectuals and students of Delhi University was chaired by Shri Bharat Gupt, an Associate Professor in English at the College of Vocational Studies of the University of Delhi.

Dr. Ramdas Lamb began his speech by stating, "There is a need to understand the dynamics of conversion. I am not against conversion and I cannot be as I am myself a convert. But then we need to understand what is conversion and how conversion is taking place." [/font]
He went on to say, "There are three types of religions. The first type are those who are based on the teaching of a single prophet. So the process of converting to a prophetic religion is giving up everything else. In this type of conversion the loyalty to one type of teaching becomes important. It is a conversion of loyalty from one belief system to another belief system. Their truth is the only truth and has to be followed. This is the kind of consciousness that is there in Christianity and Islam. If you are a Christian you are good and will go to heaven but all others would go to hell. For a good Christian, the Christianity is more important than your family, than your community and even more important than your country. So the religion becomes more important than your father and mother and your brother and sister. You can leave everyone but not Christianity. So in this case, tolerance for others is bad and the concept of tolerance does not exist. When you convert to this kind of prophetic religion you gain the attitude that you are going to heaven while others are going to hell. You are right and others are wrong. This could even make you a bit high headed." [/font]

The second type of religion is ethnic religion. This kind of religion is based on a group of people. If you do not belong to that ethnicity you cannot be a part of that religion. For instance if you are not Japanese you cannot be a Shinto. So it is a very small concept of religion. This kind of religion is very bound by genetics." [/font]
]

Then comes the third type and they are universal religions and Hinduism is one of the major universal or world religion that I see when I teach religions. Hinduism is the largest non converting religion. This is the religion which does not proselytize. When you convert to a universal religion, you gain consciousness. The purpose of the universal religion is only to expand consciousness. So we grow and we add, we do not subtract. You add consciousness and you add awareness. This is what universal religion teaches." [/font]
[

]Dr. Ramdas Lamb said, "When my guruji gave me diksha he told me to allow thoughts to come and allow consciousness to expand. He told me that I was a soul and a soul has no limitations whatsoever. Therefore your brain should not be bound by any limits. So far I have taught around ten thousand students and this is what I teach them. I am trying to get my students understand Hinduism as a universal religion. Needless to say many of my students get deeply interested in Hinduism because they want to expand their consciousness. They are not looking for a label which prophetic religions provide you. If you have to enhance your perception of reality and you have to allow consciousness to grow within then ignore the labels, that is what a universal religion gives you an opportunity to do." [/font]

He further stated, "What missionaries do not tell people here is that Christianity is losing popularity in Christian countries. Why it is losing popularity is that actually it does not teach much. For becoming a Christian you have to believe in something. Once somebody becomes Christian he is assured that he is going to heaven. So much so that even if I kill or loot somebody, it does not matter as my going to heaven is certain because of my having become a Christian. Therefore it removes responsibility. They do not have much to offer in terms of teaching. Also if you ask questions, it is not appreciated. In contrast my guru always told me that Lord Rama has given you brain and you must use it for thinking and questioning." [/font]



]Introducing Professor Ramdass Lamb, chairperson for the event Shri Bharat Gupt said, "Professor Lamb is one of the very few professors of Hindu religion in American Universities. Why he is one of the few, the reason is that he is Hindu himself. Around forty years back he became a sadhu and wandered in various places for around one decade. Later on the behest of his guru he became a householder and a professor. For a lot of die hard Hindus it is difficult to understand how a sannyasin becomes a householder but then there are times when certain things become essential as they are done due to apat dharma [dharma to be followed in emergency situations] or yuga dharma [dharma to be followed according to the need of a particular period of time] . But what is most important is that he is one of the very few Hindus who are there in the American academia." [/font]

]He went on to say, "You know Hinduism is not taught in India and there are no departments of religious studies in India. The cruel joke is that though we declare ourselves the torch bearers of eastern spirituality, there is no formal study of it at all. This is the real face of the Indian secularism that thinking about religion is kept out of the educational system. So as a consequence we have no Hindu professors teaching Hinduism anywhere in the world. If we are not training scholars in Hinduism then how will they teach Hinduism in the universities abroad. As a result our own children are studying Hinduism books written by non Hindu scholars in the universities abroad." [/font]


Shri Bharat Gupt pointed out, "There are forces who say that if the colour of one's skin is white one cannot be a Hindu and there are others who say that if you have left India and settled abroad, you cannot be a Hindu. So according to such people neither Professor Lamb, nor my two children settled abroad can be treated as Hindus. If this is how we are going to think, then finally how many Hindus will be there in this world. Time has come that we now need to openly debate on many such questions and arguments." [/font]

The event ended with a lively interaction between the audience and the speaker. Expressing their views during this period, some of the youth leaders of Delhi University made a somewhat sensational revelation that there were forces which were trying to convert the cream of the students of Delhi University to Christianity and so much so that around three to four hundred bright students who came to Delhi from all parts of India were getting converted every month. Shri Mukul Kanitkar of Vivekananda International Foundation invited these students to share the details of such conversions so that appropriate measures could be taken to check this menace which was there right in the capital of India. [/font]