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Thread: The interconnectedness of everything...

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    The interconnectedness of everything...

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Namaste sadhu,

    There is a notion that there is a tightly coupled relationship
    between the microcosm (us humans) and the Marcocosm , the SELF, or Universal SELF. This knowledge helps lay the foundation for the real nature of this universe and our presence... see if you care to comment on this....

    This relationship is brought up in the BRIHADARANYAKA UPANISHAD. There is a sub-section in the Upanishad called the Madhu-Vidha {Madhu is ~ sweet or honey-like and Vidya is knowledge). This Upanishad states Ayam eva sa yo'ayam atma: THAT is this; this is THAT then goes on to say Abahyam ayam atma Brahma or THIS is verily your own SELF.

    What is different in this Upanishad, it discusses this interconnected-ness I mentioned. What I find most profound is that it outlines the following principles, really experiences of a jivanmukti ( ~ fully realized being )
    • When you touch anything, you are touching everything.
    • If I touch a table, I am touching the sun at once. Nobody can understand the mystery behind this thing.
    • Everything is vitally connected, not merely artificially related, so that when I see anything, I am seeing everything. When I speak to anyone, I am speaking to everybody. When I touch anything, I touch all things, and when I know one thing, I know everything.
    These points ares really a magnificent theme in the Brhadaranyaka Upanishad. So, how does this occur? This is done via the Universal SELF - the pundit that is doing the commentary calls HIM the Luminous Immortal Being or tejomayo'amrtamayah purusah.

    You will note that HE is Purusha. Purusua , the purva ( ancient one or of previous times) and ush ( burned up) all evil ( evil here is not the typical evil, but can be a subject for future discussions).

    Purusha may be split as pura + usha - the dawn-light (usha) of the city of the body (pura); or pu + rusha, one whose passions are refined. or even puru + sha, filled with wisdom and happiness.

    So, that which connects the WHOLE to the part and the part the WHOLE is Purusha ( also called Purushottma or Supreme Purusha). That is, the individual (you, me) are not constitutionally separate form the WHOLE, and the WHOLE is correlated with every other thing in creation.... all connected ( Not casually)... Many call this Infinite Correlation.

    This is the essence of this universe ( now uni-verse really applies) is also the SELF of all of us ( the Atman, jiva, soul). This is called Brahman idam brahma,idam sarvam - The "Brahm" is to fill everything, complete everything and is self-sufficient.
    Sarvesam bhutanam raja or is the Emperor of all, and goes on to say:
    • As the spokes are connected to the hub of a wheel, everything visible or invisible is connected to this SELF/Atman/Purushottma
    • All beings, whatever can be conceived of, or not conceived of, all celestials, all the worlds that can be conceived of in any level of manifestation ,everything that is vital and real everything, all beings, whatever is, in any form, are located in this Atman/SELF/Purushottma, in the same way as every spoke is located in the hub of the wheel.
    So, why all this diversity, individual things we experience?
    These forms, these bodies, these visible individualities of things, are really intended for the recognition of HIS presence in all things - He has not created this world merely for nothing, as if He has no other work to do. It is intended to give an indication of His presence; an indication of the variety which HE can comprise within HIMSELF; an indication of the contradictions that can be reconciled in His Being; ALL is Brahman. All is connected, yet;
    We unfortunately find it challanging to see the harmony as we are not in a position to harmonise ourselves (as yet) with the harmony that is His. But His intention is something different. His intention is to make it possible for us to visualise the harmony and the interconnectedness through every finite form.
    Reaching enlightenment ( Moksha, Jivanmukti or enlightened while living) creates the ONEness to everything, literally. One lives in the the SELF and all is an extention of SELF as discussed in the Mahdu-Vidha part of this Upanishad.
    It is innate in everyone to want this Moksha - For the desire of the Infinite, which is the Self, everything appears to be desirable.
    For the sake of this Supreme Absolute, which is the Self of all things, we are unknowingly asking/accumulating things.
    This is the nature of things... as we grow wise we direct our attention to Moksha.

    This info above will then help bridge a conversation on God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana that will be posted in a day or so.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 20 April 2007 at 08:29 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: The interconnectedness of everything...

    namaste,
    Thank you for the post.

    It is indeed a mystery and I can not bring myself to understand how touching a table that is made up of wood for example touches the sun at the same time! Hmm...interesting (for a lack of a better word).

    Looking forward to the post on chetana.
    satay

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    Re: The interconnectedness of everything...

    Hinduism & Quantum Physics

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    There is a notion that there is a tightly coupled relationship between the microcosm (us humans) and the Marcocosm , the SELF, or Universal SELF. This knowledge helps lay the foundation for the real nature of this universe and our presence... see if you care to comment on this....
    The Rishi's vision of a world is one in which man participates in a seamless existence, indivisibly united with the universe around him. Today, Science is forced to shed it skepticism on such a vision and is forced to move inexorably, albeit gradually, towards accepting this vision.

    The universe was totally objective to science, until now. And nothing could exceed the speed of light.

    The beginnings of confirmation of the Rishi's Vision, came through the flawless, mathematical findings of Albert Einstein, Nathan Rosen and Boris Podolsky in 1935. Based on their discoveries, they proposed what came to be known as the ERP Effect which states that if the quantum theory were correct, then 'A change in the spin of one particle in a two particle system would affect its twin simultaneously, even if the two had been widely separated in the meantime.' If two particles were to communicate with each other 'simultaneously' wherever they were in the universe, it needed to exceed the speed of light, which is not possible in an objective universe!

    In 1964 Bell's Theorem emerged as a proof that Einstein's impossible proposition did in fact hold true: instantaneous changes in widely separated systems did occur.

    The essential description of Bell's Theorem as given by Stapp states: "If the statistical predictions of quantum theory are true, an objective universe is incompatible with the law of local causes."

    An objective universe is one that exists apart from our consciousness. The law of local causes is that things happen in the universe at or less than the speed of light. This limitation is imposed by Einstein's special theory of relativity, and is a mainstay of modern physical theory.

    In 1972, Clauser confirmed the statistical predictions of quantum mechanics, and Bell's Theorem was verified to hold true by different experiments.

    Implications of Bell's Theorem

    The mathematical and experimental verification that two particles once in contact, separated even to the ends of the universe, change instantaneously when a change in one of them occurs has far reaching implications.

    If the two particles are to be in contact, they need to exchange information, which involves energy transmission, but for this to happen instantaneously, the speed of light needs to be exceeded, but then all these are not possible in an objective universe: a tight and nice conundrum!

    Accepting that the play of consciousness is the only possibility that could make this communication possible would mean that science was going the spiritual way! So science had to tread carefully to find its own explanations.

    The notion of an objective universe ruled by local causes was shattered once for all, however. In 1979, the French physicist Bernard D'Espagnat came to the conclusion that "the entire notion of an external, fixed, objective world now lies in conflict not only with quantum theory, but in facts drawn from actual experiments.... in some sense all these objects constitute an indivisible whole."

    In an effort to have the cake and eat it too, Physicist Jack Sarfatti of the Physics/Consciousness Research Group proposes that no actual energy-requiring signal is transmitted between the distant objects, but 'information' is transmitted instead. Thus no violation of Einstein's special theory of relativity occurs. Exactly what 'information' is that can travel instantly without using energy, he did not know. This is a typical scientific statement that tries to sound scientific without being logical.

    Nic Herbert, a physicist who heads the C-Life Institute, finds that "An invisible wholeness unites the objects that are given birth in the universe, and it is this wholeness that we have stumbled into through modern experimental methods. Herbert alludes to the words of the poet Charles Williams: "Separation without separateness, reality without rift." Who was wiser here, the scientist or the poet?

    Professor Henry Stapp states that the real importance of these findings is that they translate directly to our microcosmic existence, implying that the oneness that is implicit in Bell's Theorem envelopes human beings and atoms alike. This is the first, logical step towards a holistic discovery: that science cannot exclude man, who is a product of the mind, is a significant progress of the scientific spirit of inquiry towards wisdom.

    So the lesson is clear: that we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside and that human thought and consciousness, to some extent, shapes the external world.

    Certain quantum physicists now say that each part of the universe contains all the information present in the entire cosmos itself (similar to a giant oak tree producing an acorn that contains all the information to replicate itself).

    This assertion is so audacious that it would be dismissed out of hand were it not for the scientific stature of its chief proponent David Bohm, a former associate of Einstein, professor of theoretical physics at Birbeck College of University of London. He is regarded as one of the pre-eminent theoretical physicists of our day.

    Thus, the model of the universe changes to a holographic model. Just like every part of a hologram contains all the information about the entire image, every part of the universe has information about the entire universe.

    For Bohm, order and unity are spread throughout the universe in a way which escapes our senses. In the same way that order and organisation are spread throughout the hologram. Each part of the universe contains enough information to reconstitute the whole. The form and structure of the entire universe is enfolded within each part.

    If the universe is holographic, then should not we humans have holographic features ourselves to comprehend the whole universe? This question has been answered affirmatively by Stanford neurophysiologist Karl Pribram. And his findings have shattered the current medical theory of human brain! Pribram, Karl Lashley and Smith & Sugar, in their surgical experiments have found that even after total removal of the left side of the brain to cure intractable epileptic seizures in the case of two patients, the patients did not become paralytics but soon learned to become normal persons, their physical, mental and intellectual functions remaining intact or even enhanced! This is a definite pointer against the current theories of memory and storage of information in the physical brain.

    The Holoverse in Space and Time

    Although these nonlocal (exceeding speed of light) and noncausal (not involving energy transfer) descriptions are worked out for objects separated in space, Bohm states that the implications of quantum theory also apply to moments in 'TIME'.

    What is crucial is that, according to the theory of relativity, a sharp distinction between space and time cannot be maintained.

    Quantum physics is thus approaching, inexorably, the lofty philosophy personified in Satanana Dharma, and the Rishi's vision of man, God and universe is increasingly being confirmed by the empirical discoveries of modern science. The day is not far off when Science would admit that the universe is nothing more than the thoughts and dreams of a Cosmic Consciousness.

    (For a more elaborate discussion, visit: http://www.www.hinduism.org.za/hinduism.htm)

  4. #4
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    Re: The interconnectedness of everything...

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Hinduism & Quantum Physics



    The Rishi's vision of a world is one in which man participates in a seamless existence, indivisibly united with the universe around him. Today, Science is forced to shed it skepticism on such a vision and is forced to move inexorably, albeit gradually, towards accepting this vision.

    The universe was totally objective to science, until now. And nothing could exceed the speed of light.

    The beginnings of confirmation of the Rishi's Vision, came through the flawless, mathematical findings of Albert Einstein, Nathan Rosen and Boris Podolsky in 1935. Based on their discoveries, they proposed what came to be known as the ERP Effect which states that if the quantum theory were correct, then 'A change in the spin of one particle in a two particle system would affect its twin simultaneously, even if the two had been widely separated in the meantime.' If two particles were to communicate with each other 'simultaneously' wherever they were in the universe, it needed to exceed the speed of light, which is not possible in an objective universe!

    In 1964 Bell's Theorem emerged as a proof that Einstein's impossible proposition did in fact hold true: instantaneous changes in widely separated systems did occur.

    The essential description of Bell's Theorem as given by Stapp states: "If the statistical predictions of quantum theory are true, an objective universe is incompatible with the law of local causes."

    An objective universe is one that exists apart from our consciousness. The law of local causes is that things happen in the universe at or less than the speed of light. This limitation is imposed by Einstein's special theory of relativity, and is a mainstay of modern physical theory.

    In 1972, Clauser confirmed the statistical predictions of quantum mechanics, and Bell's Theorem was verified to hold true by different experiments.

    Implications of Bell's Theorem

    The mathematical and experimental verification that two particles once in contact, separated even to the ends of the universe, change instantaneously when a change in one of them occurs has far reaching implications.

    If the two particles are to be in contact, they need to exchange information, which involves energy transmission, but for this to happen instantaneously, the speed of light needs to be exceeded, but then all these are not possible in an objective universe: a tight and nice conundrum!

    Accepting that the play of consciousness is the only possibility that could make this communication possible would mean that science was going the spiritual way! So science had to tread carefully to find its own explanations.

    The notion of an objective universe ruled by local causes was shattered once for all, however. In 1979, the French physicist Bernard D'Espagnat came to the conclusion that "the entire notion of an external, fixed, objective world now lies in conflict not only with quantum theory, but in facts drawn from actual experiments.... in some sense all these objects constitute an indivisible whole."

    In an effort to have the cake and eat it too, Physicist Jack Sarfatti of the Physics/Consciousness Research Group proposes that no actual energy-requiring signal is transmitted between the distant objects, but 'information' is transmitted instead. Thus no violation of Einstein's special theory of relativity occurs. Exactly what 'information' is that can travel instantly without using energy, he did not know. This is a typical scientific statement that tries to sound scientific without being logical.

    Nic Herbert, a physicist who heads the C-Life Institute, finds that "An invisible wholeness unites the objects that are given birth in the universe, and it is this wholeness that we have stumbled into through modern experimental methods. Herbert alludes to the words of the poet Charles Williams: "Separation without separateness, reality without rift." Who was wiser here, the scientist or the poet?

    Professor Henry Stapp states that the real importance of these findings is that they translate directly to our microcosmic existence, implying that the oneness that is implicit in Bell's Theorem envelopes human beings and atoms alike. This is the first, logical step towards a holistic discovery: that science cannot exclude man, who is a product of the mind, is a significant progress of the scientific spirit of inquiry towards wisdom.

    So the lesson is clear: that we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside and that human thought and consciousness, to some extent, shapes the external world.

    Certain quantum physicists now say that each part of the universe contains all the information present in the entire cosmos itself (similar to a giant oak tree producing an acorn that contains all the information to replicate itself).

    This assertion is so audacious that it would be dismissed out of hand were it not for the scientific stature of its chief proponent David Bohm, a former associate of Einstein, professor of theoretical physics at Birbeck College of University of London. He is regarded as one of the pre-eminent theoretical physicists of our day.

    Thus, the model of the universe changes to a holographic model. Just like every part of a hologram contains all the information about the entire image, every part of the universe has information about the entire universe.

    For Bohm, order and unity are spread throughout the universe in a way which escapes our senses. In the same way that order and organisation are spread throughout the hologram. Each part of the universe contains enough information to reconstitute the whole. The form and structure of the entire universe is enfolded within each part.

    If the universe is holographic, then should not we humans have holographic features ourselves to comprehend the whole universe? This question has been answered affirmatively by Stanford neurophysiologist Karl Pribram. And his findings have shattered the current medical theory of human brain! Pribram, Karl Lashley and Smith & Sugar, in their surgical experiments have found that even after total removal of the left side of the brain to cure intractable epileptic seizures in the case of two patients, the patients did not become paralytics but soon learned to become normal persons, their physical, mental and intellectual functions remaining intact or even enhanced! This is a definite pointer against the current theories of memory and storage of information in the physical brain.

    The Holoverse in Space and Time

    Although these nonlocal (exceeding speed of light) and noncausal (not involving energy transfer) descriptions are worked out for objects separated in space, Bohm states that the implications of quantum theory also apply to moments in 'TIME'.

    What is crucial is that, according to the theory of relativity, a sharp distinction between space and time cannot be maintained.

    Quantum physics is thus approaching, inexorably, the lofty philosophy personified in Satanana Dharma, and the Rishi's vision of man, God and universe is increasingly being confirmed by the empirical discoveries of modern science. The day is not far off when Science would admit that the universe is nothing more than the thoughts and dreams of a Cosmic Consciousness.

    (For a more elaborate discussion, visit: http://www.www.hinduism.org.za/hinduism.htm)

    Please see also, if interested, "Time-reversed human experience: Experimental evidence and implications" Dean Radin, Boundary Institute (Esalen).

    http://www.boundaryinstitute.org/art...mereversed.pdf




    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

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