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Thread: japa

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    japa

    when i chant om namah shivaya, i have problems with pronouncing it comfortably. have you ever waded through water? it feels very uncomfortable and sluggish when i do this

    and the sharp "she" sound in shivaya also bothers my ears

    does anyone have advice?

    thanks
    "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall think of it, always."~ Ghandi

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    Re: japa

    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker96 View Post
    when i chant om namah shivaya, i have problems with pronouncing it comfortably. have you ever waded through water? it feels very uncomfortable and sluggish when i do this

    and the sharp "she" sound in shivaya also bothers my ears

    does anyone have advice?

    thanks
    Vannakkam truthseeker: I'll toss out a couple of possibilities for consideration. 1) Its not your mantra. 2) You're not saying it right. If something is irritating, then clearly something isn't right.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: japa

    could i pronounce it as see-vaya?
    "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall think of it, always."~ Ghandi

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    Re: japa

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker96 View Post
    and the sharp "she" sound in shivaya also bothers my ears does anyone have advice?

    thanks
    This 's' sound in saskt takes some getting use to. Consider the following regarding siliblants ( meaning hissing sound). In English we have the letter 's' - but it comes in different sounds, no?
    • seek - hear the 'c' in this word?
    • sue - just start the word and you will here some 'c' in the initial tongue position
    • ship or shine - sha-ine
    • sow or sew - soow
    • sat - saat
    • hiss - hiss - yet there is some 'c' in this word, no?
    • kiss - note right at the end , the sound has some 'c' in it.
    • his - like hiz
    Note how your tongue changes location in your mouth - try the words a few times and take note of where your tongue lands to start the word.
    Lets look at the sibilants in saskt. We talk of sounds not so much letters, so we have 3 sibilants:
    • sa - like seek some say so
    • ṣa - like ship or bushel
    • śa - now this śa is a bit different as there is some 'h' and some 'c' in this sound.
      Some call it out as the sound that we find in hiss - then śiva almost sounds like c'iva. Others say this sound śa is that sound found in sure or shove . Now to the discerning ear one will hear the the 'c' sound in sure if you say it properly several times with attention - found at the very beginning of sure before even getting to the other letters (ure).
    I pronounce śiva with a 'c' + 'h' sound and it comes out fine ( to my ear). It is as if I am starting the idea of saying 'c'iva but and in the sound idea found in 'shove' to it . The 'h' sound is no doubt there but not the ~main attraction~. To me is sounds fine ( that that is me).

    This works fine because the next letter after 'ś' is 'i' and for the mouth to sound this 'i' it must move out of the 'hiss' position and this helps with the 'h' sound to come out and be heard .

    Hope this helps ?

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 07 March 2011 at 04:43 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: japa

    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker96 View Post
    could i pronounce it as see-vaya?
    Vannakkam truthseeker:

    Unfortunately I am not in a position to help you. Perhaps there are others here. For me, this mantram is so sacred that I believe it should be passed only from a Guru in mantra diksha, which is a "For your ears only" rite. Not that there is anything wrong in chanting it, but the power is greatly lessened. Then of course different Gurus may pronounce it differently or quite possibly instructions could vary from sishya to sishya as well.

    There is a common argument over the 's' sound in Shiva or Siva, and Yajvan explained a lot of it. To add further to the explanation or varied ideas, I'll add one more. I was discussing the s versus sh with my Tamil speaking friend in Chidambaram who is quite up on his Tamil. (I wouldn't at all be surprised if the pronunciation differs slightly from Tamil to Sanskrit.) He explained it to me as 'Neither is correct. It is actually (his words, not mine) a ch sh blend. So the ch as in chunk blended with the sh as in shop. Of course this blend does not appear in English at all, so it's really quite difficult. Any blend just happens so fast in time, it often gets slurred as well.
    Language is often quite tricky. I have been tutoring ESL with our assistant priest here,and he cannot and perhaps may never be able to say the zh sound you hear in measure. Of course his mother tongue is Tamil and there is no zh in Tamil.

    Best wishes. Regardless of how you proceed, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Last edited by Eastern Mind; 07 March 2011 at 04:46 PM. Reason: sp

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    Re: japa

    thanks
    "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall think of it, always."~ Ghandi

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    Re: japa

    The true chantings that really works, firstly start with Tounge, than slowely starts with the Throat, than with Heart, and the final stage is with "Mind" and "Soul".

    The true chantings that works are not bounded with any special language.

    True chantings that really works are based on the expressions of heart and soul, no doubt the course strats with the tounge first.

    If one try for thousand years cannot get any benifit with chanting done by tounge.

    The goal of the chanting done by tounge, Is chantings done by throat, the goal of chanting done by throat, Is chanting done by heart, the goal of chantings done by heart, Is chanting by "Mind" and "Soul", Otherwise the chanting done only with tounge, is no more than the wastage of energy.


    _/\_ Jasdir.
    "Everything is he, he is for Everyone, So to whom we can say.... is worse, As there is nothing other than Him." -Guru Nanak.

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    Re: japa

    Vannakam Truthseeker,

    bear in mind that japa need not be performed aloud. One can perform Japa by simply muttering the mantra under the breath or just thinking about it. If you have trouble with the pronunciation, perhaps one of these two methods would be beneficial for you.

    I am not of the same opinion as eastern mind, but that is because I have not had access to a guru, yet have still bore many fruits through japa and meditation.

    Also, if you chant to music of some sort, it might help, music can help you develop a rhythm and melody to your meditation or japa allowing for more intensity and passion.

    As another has said, japa is not simply uttering a mantra it is also feeling it with passion.

    Finally, if you are like me perhaps you should look at different mantras, ones that fit better for your vocal rhythm and method of pronunciation.

    Hope that helps a little

    Namaste

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    Re: japa

    Pranam

    Some nice advice been given here, i add my two pence worth, although it is always desirable to pronounce the mantra correctly and one should endeavor to learn it from authority. one example here is perhaps might help, Valmiki was instructed to chant Ram Ram by NaradMuni, He was chanting opposite Mara, Mara yet we all know the result.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: japa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam

    Some nice advice been given here, i add my two pence worth, although it is always desirable to pronounce the mantra correctly and one should endeavor to learn it from authority. one example here is perhaps might help, Valmiki was instructed to chant Ram Ram by NaradMuni, He was chanting opposite Mara, Mara yet we all know the result.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Vannakkam GP et al: So true. na ma si va ya goes to si va ya na ma in the same way. Both are used.

    Aum Namasivaya

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