Self and Maya

[charlebs]

sometimes maya shows me the most disturbing things....

[khalidrawat]

What does brahman consciousness symbolizes?

[devotee]

What does brahman consciousness symbolizes?

There is no question of any symbolisation. Consciousness is Brahman (the third state of Brahman).

OM

[Brian]

In Hindu Dharma there are lots of Upanishads,Epics and Sacred books.These books describe how to maintain culture,tradition and maintain piece in the society.People believe that Maya has negative effects.If anyone can balance his mind and attitude then Maya cannot do anything.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

In Hindu Dharma there are lots of Upanishads,Epics and Sacred books.These books describe how to maintain culture,tradition and maintain piece in the society.People believe that Maya has negative effects.If anyone can balance his mind and attitude then Maya cannot do anything.

Māyā in ignorance is mischief; māyā in the fullness of Being is joy, the dance of the universe.

praṇām

[kallol]

Good that the thread is still live. Topic is great too.

My understanding :

We as humans are limited by our senses - the 5 senses eye, ear, skin, tongue and nose. anything and everything we try to understand are though the signals we receive through these.

Beyond this, if anything is there, we can only infer and assume but hardly have the capability to prove.

Again the objects which are identified by these senses are only appreciated and dealt with.

Take our everyday life - our environment, ecology, relationships, belongings, our actions towards those, etc are all related to these 5 senses. Through these senses, we get stuck to the above entities and lead the life.

Do general people think anything beyond that ? answer is NO.

Again do you think that all these objects and actions towards these objects are permanent ? again the answer is NO.

When we get attached to impermanence thinking that it is permanent, we are subjected to the fluctuations in mental state. The impermanence of these objects and related actions bring the change in the state of mind and those create the pains and pleasures.

What happens if we know that these are not permanent ?

I have built a beautiful sand house in the beach. Real beautiful. If I take the house as permanent, then the impermanence brought to it by the sea waves, will affect me. If I know that the house is impermanent and the sand is more permanent (and mentally get more attached that), I am not subjected to the fluctuations.

Expand the time and maturity of the mind to grasp the whole creation right from the lowest form to the universe. The impermanence is written everywhere. Only the time varies.

Actions are towards nama and rupa - that is why till one reaches the knowledge part of SD fully, he / she is still in the maya state. The nama, rupa and the actions towards those, are under the purview of maya.

Now with the dissolution of the perceivable objects / universe, the system returns back to permanent state of Brahman. Just like any entity which is consisting of matter and consciousness, Brahman also has the same. The consciousness part is linked to the "self" and the matter part is linked to the energy.

Lest there is confusion, we need to keep in mind that, the existence is at systems level i.e. both together is 1 entity. Just like me - body without consciousness is not kallol. Or the consciousness is not kallol. Together is kallol and this is out of the same raw material called Brahman. This percolates at all level - highest to lowest.

Love and best wishes

[khalidrawat]

There is no question of any symbolisation. Consciousness is Brahman (the third state of Brahman).

OM

By symbolization I mean this:

When we see something our consciousness represents that thing to us. Our imganition presents things in their absence , and our senses in the presence of things present them. The third element is our though in which reason operates.

Now, for time being let us forget about the knowledge coming through senses. Focus only on imagination. Imagination presents a picture or a moving film of whatever we imagine, and our consciousness receives it. It becomes a symbol of the reality of which the image it receives(for the real situation is different from its imagined picture). If I imagine myself playing cricket in a match that I actually played, I also watch myself playing, whereas I was not given to my own sense experience when I was playing.

This shows that imagination is first of all a symbol or reality(what we know through senses, or what actually happened). In this manner my consciousness becomes what I passed through" in the past'.

Now let us talk about Brahma consciousness. What situation is this, is it the image of a thing, or reality, as perceived by the senses , and later on presented to the consciousness as an image, or it is thought, which tells us that all images are un real, only symbols or reality, presenting it in their absence.

Or this brahma consciousness is neither imagination, nor thought, and in it consciousness becomes completely empty, nothing , and has no reception. If it is this nothingness, or the state of being conscious of nothing, then what is its importance.

As a conclusion Brahma consciousness is neither the awareness or reality(things) nor imagination, neither reason, or thought. Then what it is , whatelse we have besides these enumerated above? Is it not nothing?

[khalidrawat]

Good that the thread is still live. Topic is great too.

My understanding :

We as humans are limited by our senses - the 5 senses eye, ear, skin, tongue and nose. anything and everything we try to understand are though the signals we receive through these.

Beyond this, if anything is there, we can only infer and assume but hardly have the capability to prove.

Again the objects which are identified by these senses are only appreciated and dealt with.

Take our everyday life - our environment, ecology, relationships, belongings, our actions towards those, etc are all related to these 5 senses. Through these senses, we get stuck to the above entities and lead the life.

Do general people think anything beyond that ? answer is NO.

Again do you think that all these objects and actions towards these objects are permanent ? again the answer is NO.

When we get attached to impermanence thinking that it is permanent, we are subjected to the fluctuations in mental state. The impermanence of these objects and related actions bring the change in the state of mind and those create the pains and pleasures.

What happens if we know that these are not permanent ?

I have built a beautiful sand house in the beach. Real beautiful. If I take the house as permanent, then the impermanence brought to it by the sea waves, will affect me. If I know that the house is impermanent and the sand is more permanent (and mentally get more attached that), I am not subjected to the fluctuations.

Expand the time and maturity of the mind to grasp the whole creation right from the lowest form to the universe. The impermanence is written everywhere. Only the time varies.

Actions are towards nama and rupa - that is why till one reaches the knowledge part of SD fully, he / she is still in the maya state. The nama, rupa and the actions towards those, are under the purview of maya.

Now with the dissolution of the perceivable objects / universe, the system returns back to permanent state of Brahman. Just like any entity which is consisting of matter and consciousness, Brahman also has the same. The consciousness part is linked to the "self" and the matter part is linked to the energy.

Lest there is confusion, we need to keep in mind that, the existence is at systems level i.e. both together is 1 entity. Just like me - body without consciousness is not kallol. Or the consciousness is not kallol. Together is kallol and this is out of the same raw material called Brahman. This percolates at all level - highest to lowest.

Love and best wishes

I believe that you are right that the pain is felt because reason tells that the nothing is permanant, yet the reality is there. Things are there, though temporarily, so how do you think that reason is united with images or temporary reality, in a unified consciousness. Can you tell me about any symbols representing the permanance and temporary nature as a blend?

[khalidrawat]

In Hindu Dharma there are lots of Upanishads,Epics and Sacred books.These books describe how to maintain culture,tradition and maintain piece in the society.People believe that Maya has negative effects.If anyone can balance his mind and attitude then Maya cannot do anything.

What do you mean here by balancing of mind and attitude? Is it merely a behavioral issue?

[devotee]

By symbolization I mean this:

When we see something our consciousness represents that thing to us. Our imganition presents things in their absence , and our senses in the presence of things present them. The third element is our though in which reason operates.

Now, for time being let us forget about the knowledge coming through senses. Focus only on imagination. Imagination presents a picture or a moving film of whatever we imagine, and our consciousness receives it. It becomes a symbol of the reality of which the image it receives(for the real situation is different from its imagined picture). If I imagine myself playing cricket in a match that I actually played, I also watch myself playing, whereas I was not given to my own sense experience when I was playing.

This shows that imagination is first of all a symbol or reality(what we know through senses, or what actually happened). In this manner my consciousness becomes what I passed through" in the past'.

Now let us talk about Brahma consciousness. What situation is this, is it the image of a thing, or reality, as perceived by the senses , and later on presented to the consciousness as an image, or it is thought, which tells us that all images are un real, only symbols or reality, presenting it in their absence.

Or this brahma consciousness is neither imagination, nor thought, and in it consciousness becomes completely empty, nothing , and has no reception. If it is this nothingness, or the state of being conscious of nothing, then what is its importance.

As a conclusion Brahma consciousness is neither the awareness or reality(things) nor imagination, neither reason, or thought. Then what it is , whatelse we have besides these enumerated above? Is it not nothing?

Your question is too hazy and mixed up to understand what you want to ask. However, let me give some indication which may perhaps, help you :

a) Consciousness works at three levels :

• Waking Consciousness - helps us in our day-to-day functions, witnessing, recording data for subconsciousness

• Sub-Consciousness : re-play of impressions gathered through sense organs or directly through mind ==> in Dreams/on death

• Super-Consciousness : This is untainted Consciousness which is the light of God within us

b) Imagination is creative action of the waking consciousness wherein it takes the data from the sub-consciousness (i.e. the gathered impressions from the past) for creating the desired subtle objects

c) Any gross object or an imagined picture or memory is neither real nor unreal ... it depends from what state you are looking at them (from waking state, the dream objects are unreal but from dreaming state, the dream objects are real within the dream)

d) The Consciousness though one can appear to be many different consciousness. The Consciousness that you are is not the "you" that you think. It is something much bigger than that. Why ? If you are only what you think you are ... why are you not aware of what is going on inside your body ? The Consciousness which drives your heart/kidney/stomach/defense mechanism "unconsciously" is the same Consciousness from where the thought of "I" arises.

OM