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Thread: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

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    LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

    I was doing a little research on Satanic Bibles and ran into LaVeyan thoughts, after reading the tenets of it, It struck me how similar it is to Carvaka materialistic and hedonistic view of reality.

    Indulgence NOT Compulsion

    [...]

    Satanism, as an atheistic religion, holds that as there is no afterlife and therefore no paradise or heaven or hell, all happiness and satisfaction must be attained here, on earth. LaVey therefore advises that you indulge to the greatest extent possible, how that your days on earth may be best spent.

    [...]
    It was also ironic how comprehensible its philosophy is regarding sexual impulses, as shown here:

    Satanic Sex

    Contrary to the popular opinion that Satanism advocates promiscuous behavior in all individuals, in this essay LaVey actually lambasts the "free love" movement (a movement very much in motion in the 1960s when LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible) as being equally restricting as the white-light view that any unholy sex is wrong.

    LaVey's stance, once again, takes a purely individual approach to sexual matters and ethics. He maintains that while some people are indeed happy with sexual promiscuity, some are, by their nature, happier with much less sexual activity, or perhaps no sexual activity at all. LaVey believes that neither of these states are unnatural or deserving of condemnation, but rather that it is a decision for each individual to make concerning their own sexual tastes and activities.

    [...]
    So that makes one think that the mainstream cartoonish view of Satanism is nothing but a construct, an imposed dichotomy by the oversimplifying dualistic view forced down the world's throat by the catholic church.

    Things are only dark when one doesn't shine a light on them, and that's exactly what the ignorant christian catholic mindset did, it's pretty interesting that both right and left-hand path are entertained in the light of Hinduism.

    What are your thoughts?

    Om Tat Sat

    Related links:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vamachara
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Ha...ight-Hand_Path
    Last edited by Adhvagat; 21 March 2011 at 01:17 AM.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Much less harmful than Fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. Of course I don't think it's right per se but I do give it credit to stand up to the absurd arbitrary rules of Christianity.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    I've read about this religion. While I'm no fan of Christianity, not everything that opposes it is necessarily good. Personally I can't see any redeeming attributes to a religion that glorifies the demonic figure of any other faith.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast


    What are your thoughts?

    What you put your attention on grows stronger in your life.

    IMHO this subject is not worthy of receiving 1/10,000th of ones awareness. I see no light here.

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Charvaka has also influenced the Buddhist philosophers with ideas on momentariness. The nastika schools can be divided in hedonistic (charvaka), ascetic (Jain) and middle path (Buddhist) schools. It's maybe not a bad idea to know something about Charvaka, so that you can recognise it when you see it. As Pietro has made a good observation here, Satanism is a form of Charvaka philosophy that tells people to think only of the here and now.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 21 March 2011 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Namaste,

    I am of the same opinion as Yajvan in this case. Why bother going into depths about Satanism? To say it gave rise to Carvaka school of philosophy and tradition is as ignorant as saying Christianity and Judaism gave rise to Sanatana Dharma. I am not well versed on the precepts or creeds of the Satanic religion, but I will admit that yes, the Catholic Church and Christians in general have twisted the truth greatly as to their lifestyle and philosophies, depicting them as sex maniacs and psychopathic murderers. But hey, what religion hasn't been painted in a bad light by fundamental Christians?

    Much less harmful than Fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. Of course I don't think it's right per se but I do give it credit to stand up to the absurd arbitrary rules of Christianity.
    At the same time, I am doubtful as to whether many devout Satanists are really true Carvaka philosophers. I have read from other sources that some believe in chaos to be the true order of the universe and that all things arise from and in it (not sure how this fits in with LaVey's writings). I do remember reading some article that explained the tenets of Satanic lifestyle and reading that the ultimate end was to serve oneself. Yes, it seems like selfishness and "doing what you like" was the underlying message of Satanism; you are "God", so put yourself first. A bit removed from "tat tvam asi", wouldn't you agree? And while I hardly think it is a threat to dharma (whether Hinduism or any other spiritual school), to say it is not as bad as fundamental Christianity or Islam is bordering on the ludicrous. Yes, some of the more conservatist Abrahamic faiths can be extremely misguided and still "sleeping" (as Nayasurya often puts it), grossly misinterpreting their own scriptures and being blind to the truth in other faiths, but at least the key tenet of "serve others, love your neighbour, remember and give thanks to God" remains the same. Can you imagine a fundamental Satanist in that case, who works only for himself, feeding his ego and his greed until he has deemed to have lived his life to the full, and therefore considered it "meaningful" in his brief lifetime on earth? To say nothing of the destruction or the waste left in his wake in his path to self-fulfillment and self-aggrandizement. It is surely the antithesis of any religion, let alone Sanatana Dharma!

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Sunyata, my aim was never to compare or to say that one gave birth to another, but merely to point some observed similarities.

    Good thing we have members to offer different points of view here. The inherent selfish nature of this philosophy is indeed not very healthy to society as a whole even though it tries to cover itself with some type of moral code.

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    What you put your attention on grows stronger in your life.

    IMHO this subject is not worthy of receiving 1/10,000th of ones awareness. I see no light here.

    praām
    Yajvan, what do you classify as light?

    Isn't darkness also part of our existence and doesn't it also come from the supreme?

    Om Tat Sat

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata07 View Post
    Namaste,

    I am of the same opinion as Yajvan in this case. Why bother going into depths about Satanism? To say it gave rise to Carvaka school of philosophy and tradition is as ignorant as saying Christianity and Judaism gave rise to Sanatana Dharma. I am not well versed on the precepts or creeds of the Satanic religion, but I will admit that yes, the Catholic Church and Christians in general have twisted the truth greatly as to their lifestyle and philosophies, depicting them as sex maniacs and psychopathic murderers. But hey, what religion hasn't been painted in a bad light by fundamental Christians?
    And on this one rare instance I have to say: can we really blame them? Satan is a made up figure in Christianity meant to represent evil and unrighteousness. Satanism is a made up religion which venerates the made up evil figure of Christianity. It's roughly like a bunch of Indians getting together and inventing a religion where Ravana or Duryodhuna is depicted as God. Of course we're going to react negatively to the religion. I think Christianity is itself an immoral religion. But when you go and invent a religion specifically to anger Christians, it's not surprising that they're going to get angry. If the guy who invented Satanism just wanted to glorify hedonism and did not have it in mind to upset Christians, he wouldn't have named his religion Satanism.

    So anyway, I really don't see any value in comparing our great Dharma to a religion such as this. All it's going to do is make some ignorant Westerners think that Hindus are a bunch of demon worshipers.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata07 View Post
    Namaste,

    I am of the same opinion as Yajvan in this case. Why bother going into depths about Satanism? To say it gave rise to Carvaka school of philosophy and tradition is as ignorant as saying Christianity and Judaism gave rise to Sanatana Dharma. I am not well versed on the precepts or creeds of the Satanic religion, but I will admit that yes, the Catholic Church and Christians in general have twisted the truth greatly as to their lifestyle and philosophies, depicting them as sex maniacs and psychopathic murderers. But hey, what religion hasn't been painted in a bad light by fundamental Christians?



    At the same time, I am doubtful as to whether many devout Satanists are really true Carvaka philosophers. I have read from other sources that some believe in chaos to be the true order of the universe and that all things arise from and in it (not sure how this fits in with LaVey's writings). I do remember reading some article that explained the tenets of Satanic lifestyle and reading that the ultimate end was to serve oneself. Yes, it seems like selfishness and "doing what you like" was the underlying message of Satanism; you are "God", so put yourself first. A bit removed from "tat tvam asi", wouldn't you agree? And while I hardly think it is a threat to dharma (whether Hinduism or any other spiritual school), to say it is not as bad as fundamental Christianity or Islam is bordering on the ludicrous. Yes, some of the more conservatist Abrahamic faiths can be extremely misguided and still "sleeping" (as Nayasurya often puts it), grossly misinterpreting their own scriptures and being blind to the truth in other faiths, but at least the key tenet of "serve others, love your neighbour, remember and give thanks to God" remains the same. Can you imagine a fundamental Satanist in that case, who works only for himself, feeding his ego and his greed until he has deemed to have lived his life to the full, and therefore considered it "meaningful" in his brief lifetime on earth? To say nothing of the destruction or the waste left in his wake in his path to self-fulfillment and self-aggrandizement. It is surely the antithesis of any religion, let alone Sanatana Dharma!

    Om namah Shivaya
    By respect, I certainly didn't mean I admire or would encourage someone to practice this philosophy. But I do believe that "satanism"(I believe hedonism better describes it) makes good philosophical points for the west that you shouldn't blindly follow something but you should make the choice yourself to follow it. You say it's not as bad as Fundamentalist Christianity but I say this. Does Leveyan satanism prosletize? No. Does it claim authority on the truth? No. Does it compare to the number of killings Christianity had? Not even close.

    I do certainly believe they are misguided because they think "doing whatever you want" will make one forever happy which I think is absurd because they will one day suffer the karmic consequences of wasting their human life.

    PS: Sanjaya, who cares what "Christians" think? They already think we're "destined for hell" does it matter to use what their opinion is. No it does not. A person who spent literally 30 minutes looking up the tenets of Hinduism knows that we are NOT demon worshiping sodomites. But research and fact checking are things most Fundamentalist Christians rarely do.

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    Re: LaVeyan Satanism and Carvaka.

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast PI

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietro Impagliazzo View Post
    Yajvan, what do you classify as light?
    Isn't darkness also part of our existence and doesn't it also come from the supreme? Om Tat Sat
    Darkness is the absence of light...prakāśa = clearness , brightness , splendor , luster , light.

    Darkness as negativity is not a part of our true nature.
    We see the Supreme called out again and again as luster, purity, light:


    dīpajyotiḥ paraṁ brahma dīpajyotirparameśvaraḥ |
    dīpo me haratu pāpaṁ dīpajyotirnamo'stu te ||

    the light of the lamp is paraṁ brahma ...as parameśvaraḥ


    vakratuṇḍa mahākāya
    sūryakoṭi samaprabhā |
    nirvighnam kurumedeva
    sarakāryeśu sarvadā ||

    vakratuṇḍa (or ganeṣa, the one with the curved tusk) is a bright as a million suns (sūryakoṭi)



    śuklāṃ baradharaṃ viṣṇuṃ śaśivarṇam caturbhujam |
    prasannavadanaṃ dhyāyet sarva vighnopaśāntaye ||
    agajānana padmārkaṃ gajānana maharniśam |
    anekadantaṃ bhaktānā-mekadanta-mupāsmahe ||


    viṣṇu - śhuklām baradharam
    śhukla - is pure, spotless; white
    ambara is clothes , apparel , garment ; it is also the sky, the atmosphere, and ākāśa ( pure unfilled space ~ether~).
    dhara - is holding, supporting, wearing, possessing; bearer, supporter.



    For me I put no attention on the darkness. Perhaps it may be for others. I choose not to be part of it.


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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