What do you think what is bhakti (Devotion) ?

[saral]

Namste all,

Like you all said only God decides who can do Bbhaki or who can’t? I just wanted to Know

• If I am not doing Bhakti then what I am doing here?
• Why God didn’t allow me Bhakti?
• Where the word NASTIK came from?
• What are the criteria or you can say qualification to become a Bhakat according to VED or GOD?

I am just curious about this because for a long time I am keep fighting with my self to know whether I am able to do Bhakti or not. If, not then why? And if yes then why I am not feeling it from inside and always doubting on the ways which can lead me towards Gods i.e. Jap, Tap, Niyam, Rituals, Guru, sects etc. your answer helps me a lot.


Saadar
Saral

[anirvan]

I will honestly speak what i have experienced in my life so far.

Bhakti is a natural state of atman and hence with us. Neither it can be gained nor conditioned. just like carnal desire is inate to us,bhakti is inate to us but two are opposite side of same coin. same energy drives us in either way.the practice and conditioning is important to give it the right direction.

only the mental engagement with worldly stuffs, indulgence in sensual pleasure hide this pure bhakti within us.

Practice of different legs of bhakti bring our natural devotion to Fore. and how is this bhakti is like. it gives us very nice feeling,always wants to engage ourself in relation to beloved. hearing,talking,seeing only about the beloved.

one can remember when we had that teenage love feelings but it is more of transient as it is Moha .bhakti its something like that,but more intense,more secure and without any tension of loosing that love.

but yes, initially we need that conditioning for bhakti,as it is required in any worldly indulgence.once that conditioning is stabilised,one can feel that this bhakti was natural is their eternally and his existence is for this bhakti only.

then the course of bhakti will change depnding upon our constant purification from pld preconditioned samskar, and most important is to ward off the obstacles of bhakti.( Seva aparadh,baishnav aparadh,etc).

these are my practical experience in my heart.and i feel it is right to give theoretical support here.

since atman"s real swaroop is SAT-CHIT-ANAND, Anand is nothing but Hladini shakti who when takes form is Radha.and hence we are by swaroop Radha only.the natural lover of Srikrishna.

jayaguru

[jasdir]

That i think, is god's will. What do you think?

Amith, God itself is love, God has no will.
If God would have will, than it means, "He" is also disturbed by something or somebody.

But "He" or love is preasent in all of us with a decided time -- That when it will appear.

For example: Once a person asked one Faquir (spiritual master) passing nearby from his home,

What is the way to realize "God" or love ?

Faquir answered: The only way to realize "God", Simply just fall in "Love" with "God", and by saying this the faquir gone away.

After five years when that faquir was again passing from that way, again that person stoped him and asked please! tell me the way how to fall in Love with "God" i diden't understood,

Faquir answered: As five years you was FINDING the way how to fall in love with "God", This FINDING itself is called "Love".

_/\_Jasdir.

[jaswant]

NAMASTE ALL !
NICE DISCUSSION !

" Does this mean then, that true bhakti actually arises from God, OR rather than the devotee? ".

Sunyata07... this is precisely what i wanted to ask - u hit the nail on the head..

If every thing is done by God than he is a "dictator" and we have no free will -we are just puppets.... i feel that we have to have some say in what happens even if its just minute....

Jasdir...Sorry but i disagree -- i do not think if god has a will he is lacking something or disturbed.... he says in the Gita that if one offers him something with love he will accept.... if not he will not accept -- thats his will....putna is a case where he shows his will that is contrary to natural sentiments --- she wanted to kill him but he bestowed on her the highes benediction of sending her to vaikunt... thats his will !

the example of the gita -- vishwaroop - he says that he has already killed all the worriors... but arjun could be the instrument to do so... but if he he chooses not to than it does not mean that those worriors will not be killed... they would be killed some other way..... another example is karan - he refused to to be allied with the padavas even though asked by krishna.... so there has to be some will in all of us...

are we amicable to god or not.... this choice belongs to each individual... and not to GOD.... if it belongs to God... than what i say "he is a dictator" stands correct.


plse excuse my phrasing ect ect... i hope all get the gist of what iam trying to say

yours
_/\_
j

[jasdir]

Jasdir...Sorry but i disagree -- i do not think if god has a will he is lacking something or disturbed.... he says in the Gita

Jaswant ji, As per the OP, Simply just guess what your heart says.

Jaswant ji, Yes, may be some other times, But for this time -- Please !.., No books or holy-books.

Very nice to meet you..

_/\_ Jasdir.

[amith vikram]

Namaste,

@ Saral
there is no qualification required my friend, just love the lord like you love yourself!
if you want to know what god thinks about you,then please read gita. The gist of the gita is this-i am a friend of all beings and i live in the hearts of all animals. I am the one everyone are searching for.

@ jasdir
I totally agree with you!
And i also believe that this whole universe including our own self is pervaded by the blissful god. Since everything happens 'inside god', it is like an if function. If{man gives} then{man gets}. It's all predefined. that we call it as god's will.

@ jaswant
This is the topic of individuality. It is not wrong what you are saying and it is completely natural.
See neither our birth nor death is in our control, but you think things are in our control in this period between birth and death?

Bhakti arises only when there is a devotee. When a devotee realizes that he/she finds peace in bhakti alone, then the devotee will try to concentrate on god and spends more time engaging in dhyana. Since this bhakti is of the type of surrendering, a true bhakta, in the end will totally surrender to the lord losing the individuality and thus becoming free. It all depends on the amount of depth a bhakta can go in god's bhakti(surrender!).
Anyhow this is only my opinion.

[jaswant]

NAMASTE ALL

Ok i will try not to quote any books and try to express my heartfelt thoughts... though difficult... its always nice to hide behind some holy book or something or some one--- even some intellect /budhi..(which i lack a lot !)

my take is that there is a relationship with god and the individual... whether one knows that or not... like one who know his parents or not.

i do not know what the exact definition of bhakti is - but i take it to be a loving relationship with god... what that relationship is ... thats quite wide in hinduism... in the abrahamic religions .. its mostly reverance... with me it can be anything favarable or even unfavarable to god... maybe not the latter...


i think the bottom line is just to do something like lighting a lamp offering something simple and not expecting nothing in return-- not barganing with god-- just to give something not in thanks but out of your own free will... because you can ...and you want to ... not out of any duty or obligations


i don't know if this make sense


j

[jasdir]

i also believe that this whole universe including our own self is pervaded by the blissful god. Since everything happens 'inside god', it is like an if function. If{man gives} then{man gets}. It's all predefined. that we call it as god's will.

So, Amith i think, you are in love, Congrats...

_/\_Jasdir.

[sunyata07]

Namaste Jaswant,

There is most definitely a personal element involved in bhakti - no, which is crucial in order for it to flourish. Some may see this, as you have mentioned, in a reverent light, where the Lord is to be worshipped, appeased and shown the greatest respect. This is certainly true of most Abrahamic religions, where God is seen as a king figure, to be adored and before whom one must bow low.

In Sanatana Dharma, the devotee is given greater reign to express his relationship with God. Here, God can be a fatherly, kingly figure as He is seen in the West, or He can be a Mother, approached with the tender, innocent love of a child for his parent who nourishes and provides for him. Or God can be a guiding friend and guru, where the devotee feels great love, loyalty and gratitude for being shown the way to Truth. God can even be a lover, and I certainly think the idea of falling in love with God is a good analogy for the growing power of one's bhakti: beautiful, blissful, full of a joy that feels everlasting. How many are the relationships a devotee can have with God!

Why God didn’t allow me Bhakti?

God does not prevent you from loving Him! No one is excluded from bhakti. There are only those who are deluded into thinking they are excluded by their own actions. Try to see it as a child who has been playing by himself and who has slowly wandered away from his father/mother. The child may become so engrossed in his play that he forgets momentarily about his parents. He may look around in a moment of confusion and think "my parents have abandoned me!" but if you were to stop and take a closer look around, you would see that this is not so. They are just waiting for you to finish playing in the sandbox. When you're ready to leave, they will take you back into their loving arms. As Amith said before, there are no qualifications for loving God. Just open your heart to Him and love Him with all your being and He will, without fail, come to you (B.G. 18:65):

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māḿ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi satyaḿ te
pratijāne priyo 'si me

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Thus you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."

Om namah Shivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Bhakti is an essential step on the path to self-realisation. Many of us can't sit still for 5 seconds, let alone 20 days or years in a cave to go in and realise our identity with Brahman, the ultimate Vedanta. So we need bhakti:
- doing japa
- home puja
- pilgrimage
- temples
- making garlands
- making clothing for deities
- preparing prasadam
- sitting in quiet reflection of the almighty
- walking with only god in mind

What does it do? it prepares us (by softening the intellect, ridding us of bigotry and ignorance) for the time when we are ready to take it inward. Even the greatest of saints and teachers still practised bhakti.

Aum Namasivaya