Christian Imperialism

[pineblossom]

On another thread about another matter I sustained a rather unfortunate personal attack - presumably because I was a Christian.

While I can understand the source of such attacks it is perhaps necessary for me to spell out some rather obvious, but hitherto, unacknowledged assumptions.

Somewhat like Hindu Dharma, Christianity is multifarious but also somewhat like the hydra - cut off one head and two more appear. So I don't necessarily blame those with personal hate crusades. However, more needs to be said.

Christianity was born in the depths of Hellenist culture - a culture that followed Alexander III as he prowled the world only pulling up at the Indus River because his army wanted to go home.

But Alexander bought with him the Greek idea of doing things including language and the rationalist philosophies which survives within many cultures today. It survives particularly in Christianity - despite most Christians denying as much. Rationalism, as the Greeks knew it, followed the expansion of the West which eventually became driving force of Imperialist Europe which rode to power and dominance on the back Christianity. The two are cosy cousins.

Western Imperialism is dead but American Tea Party Style Imperialism survives on the back of its own deer hunting for Jesus brand of Christianity. 'Those ends times are about to happen so cares what happens to the place in the meantime'.

Technically, as well as spiritually, Christianity is also dead. Many, most perhaps, Christians know this and are concerned but not knowing quite where to turn. So please treat us lost souls as spiritually exiles looking for a new home. Hating is easy - anyone can do that. Listening seems to be more productive.

'That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind
Bears shame and glory: with an equal peace ...

BhagavadGita XII

[devotee]

Namaste Pineblossom,

No one hates you, please rest assured. Ther are a number of people here from Chsritian background who are highly respected on this forum.

Sometimes whle discussing, some members may use harsh words to drive their point. That is the problem of that member (I am not excluding myself ... if I did it to anyone) & not of this forum. If you are interested in Hinduism & its wonderful doctrine & respect our scriptures, saints, our customs and our beliefs ... you are most welcome here.

The forum is congregaton of a number of people coming from widely varying background. You can't expect everyone to behave rationally. We have to live in this practical world as it is.

Love to you ....

devotee

[Believer]

But Alexander bought with him the Greek idea of doing things including language and the rationalist philosophies which survives within many cultures today.

Greeks are a strange bunch, their tour guides are pretty mixed up; they want to keep alive the stories of their old religion to be able to come up with a narrative during long bus rides so as to milk them for tips from tourists, but profess to be loyal to orthodox Xitianity.

It was rather unfortunate for you to have met some unpleasantness in the forum before, but let us push the reset button and start anew.

[Adhvagat]

Lenny, if one behaves like a worm (example, well, perhaps an extreme crack addict that gets high and sleep among the trash? Murdering for drug, not minding living among trash and excrement, is he different from a worm?), then he's wasting his life and if he leaves his body in this mindset, he'll go where HE WANTS, simple as that.

And the waste is the person to blame. Is it really hard to hold a concept of RESPONSIBILITY within spirituality?

The christian mindset of everyone's already saved by a person that died for our sins and we can even live a wreteched life and just repent next to our death bed turned everyone into spiritually spoiled children!

The Vedas have the decency to state that this responsibility starts when we first get this human form. We have great power with it while walking this Earth and with great power comes great responsibility.

So let's compare the philosophies:

A person already died for your sins VS You take responsibility on your own acts

You'll always be a human no matter your mindset VS Your mindset determines your outer shell

The world, animals and everything on this Earth were given by god for human enjoyment VS The world is the great mother, a living being, should be respected and every living thing is an atma.

For me, it's clear that Dharmic life is the way out of this destructive mindset we are experiencing right now in the world.

Om Tat Sat

As posted in another topic. Hope it's of any correlation.

[BryonMorrigan]

Greeks are a strange bunch. With their extreme rationalist thinking, they turned Zues and Athena and other celestial beings into a laughing stock, and then ended up adopting the orthodox Xitianity. In today's Greece, the tour guides are pretty mixed up; they want to keep alive the stories of their old religion to be able to come up with a narrative during long bus rides so as to milk them for tips from tourists, but profess to be loyal to orthodox Xitianity. By pushing rationalism to the extent of destroying their faith, they are left neither with a rationalist thinking nor a credible faith.

Actually, it was the Greeks who were the last philosophers of pre-Christian religion to be "put to the sword." It was a group of Maniots (Spartans) who were the last Greco-Romans to be conquered by the Christians. They retreated to a mountainous area of Mani which was easily defended, and they fought off armies of Byzantines well into the Middle Ages!

If you read the works of the Hellenistic philosophers and Neoplatonists, it's quite clear that the Greeks were still a very religious people all the way up to the Christian conquest. (There is a lot about Neoplatonism that is very similar to modern Hinduism, by the way...)

In fact, the word "Hellene," (Greek) meant "Pagan" up until the time of the Greek War of Independence. It was only due to the intervention of Westerners like Lord Byron, who were fascinated with pre-Christianity Greece, who ignited the flame of "Greek Pride" among the people...who had long ago started considering themselves simply "Byzantines," and viewed the religion and culture of their past as "evil."

I'd post more...but I have a migraine, which is making my thoughts a bit fuzzy.

[TheOne]

Ah yes, the neoplatonists. They are(along with theosophy) what initially drew me to Vedic thought. They have their philosophy spot on but they have no reference and that made me leads me to believe much of their philosophy they got from India because the teachings of the Upanishads mach up with their concept of "The One" and "The world soul". They along with Gnostics are in my opinion more proof that philosophy CAME OUT of India rather than brought in by some "Aryan Invasion".

[Believer]

Pineblossom, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Thanks Bryon for all the info.

"The Neoplatonists believed in the principle of reincarnation. Although the most pure and holy souls would dwell in the highest regions, the impure soul would undergo a purification, before descending again, to be reincarnated into a new body, perhaps into animal form. A soul that has returned to the One, achieves union with the cosmic universal soul, and does not descend again, at least, not in this world period."

The Neoplatonist philosophy does sound very much like the Hindu philosophy. Did the Xitian conquest of Manoits result in the obliteration of the ancient Greek philosophy/religion?

They along with Gnostics are in my opinion more proof that philosophy CAME OUT of India rather than brought in by some "Aryan Invasion".

Hush, lest the Xitian pundits/proponents of 'Aryan Invasion Theory' come after you!
-

[Sahasranama]

In high school I had to read fragments of the epistulae morales of Seneca and sometimes it seemed like reading from the upanishads. The later stoics were influenced by Indian thought from the information that came from the silk road. The earlier stoics and plato were influenced by the cynics who were influenced by the avadhuta philosophy of Indian ascetics. Even before Alexander the great, the epics of Homer show a lot of influence from Valmiki.

The Neoplatonist philosophy does sound very much like the Hindu philosophy. Did the Xitian conquest of Manoits result in the obliteration of the ancient Greek philosophy/religion?

I'll wait to hear what Bryon has to say about this, but the Christians did appropiate a lot from the religions that existed in that time.

[TheOne]

Thank you very much for the info. I believe sometimes I let on that I know a lot more about what I'm talking about than I actually do, it's refreshing to see people with actual knowledge speak about the subject.


Namaste

[Rationalist]

On another thread about another matter I sustained a rather unfortunate personal attack - presumably because I was a Christian.

While I can understand the source of such attacks it is perhaps necessary for me to spell out some rather obvious, but hitherto, unacknowledged assumptions.

Somewhat like Hindu Dharma, Christianity is multifarious but also somewhat like the hydra - cut off one head and two more appear. So I don't necessarily blame those with personal hate crusades. However, more needs to be said.

Christianity was born in the depths of Hellenist culture - a culture that followed Alexander III as he prowled the world only pulling up at the Indus River because his army wanted to go home.

But Alexander bought with him the Greek idea of doing things including language and the rationalist philosophies which survives within many cultures today. It survives particularly in Christianity - despite most Christians denying as much. Rationalism, as the Greeks knew it, followed the expansion of the West which eventually became driving force of Imperialist Europe which rode to power and dominance on the back Christianity. The two are cosy cousins.

Western Imperialism is dead but American Tea Party Style Imperialism survives on the back of its own deer hunting for Jesus brand of Christianity. 'Those ends times are about to happen so cares what happens to the place in the meantime'.

Technically, as well as spiritually, Christianity is also dead. Many, most perhaps, Christians know this and are concerned but not knowing quite where to turn. So please treat us lost souls as spiritually exiles looking for a new home. Hating is easy - anyone can do that. Listening seems to be more productive.

'That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind
Bears shame and glory: with an equal peace ...

BhagavadGita XII

Lol, no it wasn't born in Hellenistic culture. Does any Christian know their history? Guess not, since believing in their faith requires them to believe that the world was 6000 years old.

Why the respect for Alexander the Great? The guy was a brute, a murderer, and a wanton conquerer. No one likes a barbarian that conquers for the pleasure of it.

No, Greeks did not bring the concept of language, rationalism, and so forth anywhere. They did not bring civilization into other parts of the world. That, my friend, in Eurocentrism. India was long the abode of linguistics and rationalism, evidenced by the numerous philosophical sects that cropped up following the Vedic period. The same tradition can be found in many Eastern cultures/civilizations, most notably China.

Yea, we have no problem accepting you if you let go of your Eurocentrism, your Christian biases against other religions, philosophies, and bias against scientific advancement. In other words, just stop practicing Christianity since it is inherently a supremacist, racist, and intolerant religion.

Imperialism is over, but the effects aren't. The world will never forget the way in which they were wantonly conquered and raped of their wealth, humanity, and culture. The world will never forget the way in which you lost and backwards people continue to take advantage of this in the form of missionary activity, Eurocentrism, and Western supremacy.

You are asking us to forgive you people when you don't deserve it. So just sit back and watch the East rise while the West collapses from its ignorance.

As for the rest of the people on this forum: Don't believe this guy. He is obviously still clinging onto his Christian/white supremacist mindsets and anything he says should be treated with care and caution.