Christian Imperialism

[Adhvagat]

Rationalist, at least India fascinated Alexander, something that didn't quite go through with other conquerors.

But points like language and philosophy being greek's traits is definitely a correctable statement.

Another thing is separating western aggressive expansion from christianity conversion crusades... Is it even possible?

And christianity never ceases to amaze me, it's politics with the greatest disguise of religion, yet people buy it, sigh. Pure Kali-yuga!

Technically, as well as spiritually, Christianity is also dead. Many, most perhaps, Christians know this and are concerned but not knowing quite where to turn. So please treat us lost souls as spiritually exiles looking for a new home. Hating is easy - anyone can do that. Listening seems to be more productive.

With all due respect, when was christianity ever spiritually alive if not in the darkness of the middle ages?

It's just that now people are more spiritually mature to see its clear flaws.

Or perhaps you're referring to the ideal times where christianity was purely based upon Christ's teachings alone? Something I never found trace of and perhaps Christ was a more dharmic dissident among the Abrahamic faiths (which he was actually) that was rejected out of prejudice but its spiritual teachings assimilated nonetheless.

'That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind
Bears shame and glory: with an equal peace ...

BhagavadGita XII

It's also nice to remeber that the whole point of the Gita is to incite Arjuna to carry on with his battle for Dharma with the right mindset.

Arjuna didn't went to the mountains and stood passively while the ruthless conquered everything.

PS: Discussing christianity always makes me scratch my head. Do we even need to dedicate mental time to refute a "religion" that needed councils to grant woman and black people a soul. Is it really necessary? Unfortunately we do.

But discussing historical aspects to shed some light on its origins is a great tool to help people just hop out of it.

[pineblossom]

With all due respect, when was christianity ever spiritually alive if not in the darkness of the middle ages?

I think there are spiritually alive Christians in ever age. You just don't get to read about them all that often.

It's just that now people are more spiritually mature to see its clear flaws.

I think that is certainly the case.

[BryonMorrigan]

Ah yes, the neoplatonists. They are(along with theosophy) what initially drew me to Vedic thought. They have their philosophy spot on but they have no reference and that made me leads me to believe much of their philosophy they got from India because the teachings of the Upanishads mach up with their concept of "The One" and "The world soul". They along with Gnostics are in my opinion more proof that philosophy CAME OUT of India rather than brought in by some "Aryan Invasion".

Indeed. It always seems to me that, when you read the actual words of many of the Greek philosophers...(and not just the "major" works by Plato, Aristotle, etc.)...that there are occasional "matter-of-fact" references to Indian philosophy. That tends to make me think that the culture was not so much a "closed system" as many ethnocentric Westerners tend to believe.

Did the Xitian conquest of Manoits result in the obliteration of the ancient Greek philosophy/religion?

I did a research paper on the conquest of the Maniots for part of my Master's Degree in History...but I can't find it right now. You really have to dig for info on them, because it's not a subject typically mentioned by Christian "historians." Essentially, the Maniots were the last people to OPENLY practice the Greek religion. Greek philosophy had, for the most part, either died or gone underground at the beginning of the "Dark Ages." Since anyone who practiced the Greek religion, (or even visited a temple!) could be put to death, there wasn't much of a way for the religion to survive, really. According to some of the modern "Hellenists," there have been isolated instances of people secretly passing on the religion from one generation to the next...but I wouldn't say that such a thing has been proven.

This timeline explains the history of Christian aggression against the Greco-Roman religions. The "Gentile Hellenes of Laconia" mentioned at the end are the Maniots. "Laconia" is the are that used to be called "Sparta," and the Lambda, or "Λ" symbol often depicted on Spartan shields is the Greek letter "L," and stood for "Laconia" (or "Lacedaemon," which was essentially another name for the same place).

The timeline is from the website of the main Greek group working to restore the Greek religion. Many people do not realize that up until a few years ago, it was a criminal offense to practice their religion! A lot of people don't realize that many of the modern symbolic aspects of "Greek-ness" were shunned by the Greek people for centuries. The Olympic Games were a "Pagan" festival, shut down by the Christians as "blasphemous," and "Hellenism," or "Hellenismos," which now has the connotation of essentially, "Someone who appreciates or studies Greek culture," originally meant, "Someone who worships the Greek Gods." It's fascinating, really.

[sanjaya]

Lol, no it wasn't born in Hellenistic culture. Does any Christian know their history? Guess not, since believing in their faith requires them to believe that the world was 6000 years old.

Actually I'm surprised he said that. Evangelical Christians go to great pains to prove that their religion is essentially a Hebrew/Jewish faith. Most Jews I know will regard this as cultural hijacking, and retort that Christianity is a Greek faith.

I'll give him this: the Christian scriptures were written in Greek, and they have just as much Greek influence as Jewish. What culture the religion was born in...I'll leave to the experts like Byron.

[TheOne]

The Christian "religion" we know now was born in Rome and Constantinople Resulting in two distinct branches of Christianity.

Rome produced Catholicism
Constantinople produced Orthodoxy


Both of which were united under Catholicism until the 1054 split between East and West.

Between 0 and 1054 Christianity killed non-Christians, destroyed the knowledge of the ancients, caused the destruction of the Roman Empire, and ultimately made Europe to enter in what was righteously caused the Dark Ages because any intellectual light was put out and destroyed non-Christian cultures.

After 1054 the main battle was now against Islam as is evident when the Byzantines called on the Catholics to help fight the hordes of Muslims invading. Now in typical Catholic fashion they regarded the Orthodox as heretics merely because they didn't accept the authority of the Pope so they decided not only to push back the Muslims but to sack Constantinople while they are at it. They pushed the Muslims all the way back to Jerusalem slaughtering literally anyone in their way. After a couple of centuries of this the crusades ended, and in the 1300's the Byzantine Empire was sacked and Muslims had taken over the remains of it.

From 1300's onward Christianity has been in my opinion in rapid decline not merely because of Muslim conquerors but because Europe was soon to enter an amazing period called the Enlightenment when the Church held less sway and people themselves started to have some degree of control over what religion they practiced.


And that's where we are today.

[BryonMorrigan]

By the way, if you guys want to watch a movie about the horrific way that Christianity took over the Roman Empire...watch the movie "Agora." It's a big-budget historical epic about the "Pagan" philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria, who was murdered by a Christian mob because she wouldn't convert...in a "not so nice" fashion. Here's what a Christian Historian from the 5th century CE had to say on the matter:

"Some of [the Christians] therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles [oyster shells]. After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them." -- Socrates Scholasticus, 450 CE

You can watch the trailer HERE, but it doesn't quite show you just how great the movie is. The director, an Atheist, tries to imply that Hypatia was an Atheist...but PULLS NO PUNCHES in making the Christians the obvious villains of the movie. Here's the scene that shows the Christian mob destroying the Library of Alexandria. The atrocities that they commit in this movie make you think you think of the Taliban.

It took a very long time for the movie to be available in America, because the Christians protested it immensely. (It's a Spanish film...but in English...) The movie is currently available on NetFlix Instant Viewing if you have access, and playing on Showtime. I so wish we could start making movies like this about the history of Hinduism!

[TheOne]

That movie looks absolutely amazing. The second I can I shall procure a copy of it for myself! This is another example of why I believe that yes, Hindus and Western Atheists certainly don't see eye to eye on a great many things but they are some of the greatest exposers of Christian hypocrisy and the true face of the "Desert God".


Namaste

[Adhvagat]

Hey Bryon, the trailer looked a little too corny when I first saw last year, but it's Alejandro Amenabar, he's a great director!

I'll check this one. And christians protest history now? LOL

A comment on the trailer page:

Which command of Jesus Christ you hate the most... and why!?True Christians were always persecuted from the day one, Jesus included. Late Christianity and Roman Catholic Church are luciferians. True followers of Christ never killed anyone. They were killed instead. The same is today.

___

I so wish we could start making movies like this about the history of Hinduism!

I missed this bit of your message. That is indeed true.

Ever since I got in contact with the Mahabharata I was amazed from the get go. I could only imagine Mahabharata with LOTR budget.

[pineblossom]

Actually I'm surprised he said that. Evangelical Christians go to great pains to prove that their religion is essentially a Hebrew/Jewish faith. Most Jews I know will regard this as cultural hijacking, and retort that Christianity is a Greek faith.

I'll give him this: the Christian scriptures were written in Greek, and they have just as much Greek influence as Jewish. What culture the religion was born in...I'll leave to the experts like Byron.

And I would argue that both Judaism and Christianity are embedded in Hellenistic culture.

The only Jewish groups that survive the 66-74 war were the Pharisees and the Christians. And it was not called the Greco-Roman Empire for nothing - the Hellenistic influence consequently underpinned rationalistic Western Imperialism.

[sanjaya]

By the way, if you guys want to watch a movie about the horrific way that Christianity took over the Roman Empire...watch the movie "Agora." It's a big-budget historical epic about the "Pagan" philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria, who was murdered by a Christian mob because she wouldn't convert...in a "not so nice" fashion. Here's what a Christian Historian from the 5th century CE had to say on the matter:

"Some of [the Christians] therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles [oyster shells]. After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them." -- Socrates Scholasticus, 450 CE

You can watch the trailer HERE, but it doesn't quite show you just how great the movie is. The director, an Atheist, tries to imply that Hypatia was an Atheist...but PULLS NO PUNCHES in making the Christians the obvious villains of the movie. Here's the scene that shows the Christian mob destroying the Library of Alexandria. The atrocities that they commit in this movie make you think you think of the Taliban.

It took a very long time for the movie to be available in America, because the Christians protested it immensely. (It's a Spanish film...but in English...) The movie is currently available on NetFlix Instant Viewing if you have access, and playing on Showtime. I so wish we could start making movies like this about the history of Hinduism!

Byron, I just read about this movie and it looks very interesting. I almost want to spend the $10 on iTunes just to watch it tonight.

And I would argue that both Judaism and Christianity are embedded in Hellenistic culture.

The only Jewish groups that survive the 66-74 war were the Pharisees and the Christians. And it was not called the Greco-Roman Empire for nothing - the Hellenistic influence consequently underpinned rationalistic Western Imperialism.

Well I see two problems here. First, from a historical point of view this isn't quite correct; there were other groups to survive Titus' siege of Jerusalem as well as the later Bar Kochba revolt. There are Jews living in India today who emigrated well before these events, as well as communities in Ethiopia. Secondly, to say that Jews are Hellenized because they were occupied by the Roman Empire is much like saying that Hinduism is a British religion due to the British occupation of India. Indeed, India shows that this isn't true, because we are slowly eliminating the influences of Western culture in our religion. Even before the siege of Jerusalem, Jews had successfully staved off the Hellenization of their culture, such as in the Maccabean revolt.

In any case, I don't think that Christianity is a legitimate branch of Judaism alongside Rabbinic Judaism. The latter makes sense in light of other Jewish writings, the former does not.