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Thread: Twice born

  1. #1
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    Twice born

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    It seems straight forward ( to me) that Christianity's core message that seems to be missed is that of being twice born.
    In sanātana dharma we would call this dvij.

    This द्विज dvija or twice born is rooted in dvi=two + ja= born like in janma. This term is associated with brahmins, as twice born and at times they are called such, dvija or dvijottama. Its my understanding that traditionally dvija applies to Brahmin, kshatriya and vaishya.

    So what is born twice? One birth into the realm of matter (bhu) and other into the realm of the spirit. This second birth can some from dīkṣā ( rooted in da= to give + ksi = to destroy; some say its root is diks' = to consecrate). That is, this dīkṣā is initiation to allow one to daks , or to grow/increase into the div, light, spirit.

    This as I see it is the fundamental symbol (saṃketa) of Christ on the cross. The death of the body and rebirth into the Spirit.
    It is the notion that you are not the body/ego and it must come to its death. Upon its death then there is rebirth into one's true nature -
    the Spiritual, divine part of being human.

    Seems straight forward ( to me) - yet many a Christian take this death to mean extinction now and then being reborn later , at a future date.
    In sanātana dharma the notion is to rid one's self now of the baggage and assume one's real nature of Being, while living now.
    This is the fundamental principle of jīvanmukti - liberated while living.

    It seems to me this one fundamental principle that causes a great divide among many.

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: Twice born


    It seems to me this one fundamental principle that causes a great divide among many.
    Do we really need to straightjacket Christianity to our own understanding of religion? This is what people like yogananda paramahamsa did. Honestly I couldn't care less if the teachings of Christianity get reinterpretated through Hindu eyes, it might do them some good. But simultanously, the teachings of the vedas are also being straightjacketed through Christian eyes and this is something I think we should be very cautious against.

    This great divide should not cause any problems as long as there is religious tolerance which is what most abrahamic faiths lack. If the Hindu teachings are tomato soup and the Christian teachings are chicken soup, should we not be glad that there is this great division?
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 23 March 2011 at 01:31 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Twice born

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté Sahasranama

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Do we really need to straightjacket Christianity to our own understanding of religion?
    This great divide should not cause any problems as long as there is religious tolerance which is what most abrahamic faiths lack. If the Hindu teachings are tomato soup and the Christian teachings are chicken soup, should we not be glad that there is this great division?
    I see your point ( I think). For one to appreciate another idea, it only comes though one's eyes. From here the mind says, what do I have in my database of knowledge that is like this (or that). For me it is the notion of dvijá. So , for me no straight-jacket is being offered - just an idea to compare and contrast.

    You mention religious tolerance - a noble idea and I am all for it. Yet I look around the world and find it in short supply.

    Regarding tomato and chicken soup - the good news, they both are soup!

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4

    Re: Twice born

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    the teachings of the vedas are also being straightjacketed through Christian eyes and this is something I think we should be very cautious against.
    limited views can not possibly grasp the veda's. Thank God there's nothing about a Satan in it. Christians would go wild with ideas..!

  5. #5

    Re: Twice born

    didn't shiva say being twice born is during your lifetime of self realisation?

    just wondering, tho most christians link twice born to dying I suppose, then you get -like- a second birth but you're somewhere else. namingly the place you desire to go.
    except if you've committed suicide of course, then you fall into your own pit of despair. it's a spiritual law that you will not end your material body.

    I'm going off topic again, sorry I never think.
    anyway I doubt you realise much when you die though, you'll most likely try to stay true to your ID.

    I used to hope that when I'd die I'd know everything but due to hindu scripture I seriously doubt it.
    wouldn't mean much as well, live a life in sense enjoyment, get illuminated after death. something does not add up. aren't we truly here to learn? how do you learn if you get all the answers after each death of forgetfullness. I do not know. forgetting is good I suppose, but what's the reason for forgetting stuff, apparently you must and must go on absolving ego or there's no end.

    comes to me as if a spiritual law as well. well then that's science I suppose. tho theories. doesn't mean pseudo, because I'm not trying to raise a cult : P

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    Re: Twice born

    If you remembered your past life...how greatly it would affect everything you do here? Everything would be colored with such grief and remorse...or anger...or happiness. I wouldn't gamble with it.

    There was this happy girl, and every event...even the worst were weathered very well...she was happy everyday, every moment...grateful just to be alive.

    38 years of happiness despite adversity, every day another chance to fix what was broken and move on to the next lesson.

    Until...

    In her own ignorance and desire for the whole Truth, she began to pray very hard for it. A girl, who had spent her whole life praying, not for money or fame...only in sincere devotion...now after all this time asked for one thing. To be filled so much with the Truth that it filled her to the top and to spill over the sides to the others closest to her.

    She began listening to an odd set of MP3...at first she giggled a lot...the man doing it, was very sincere...but he bumped the microphone several times and it was hard to ignore at first. But, as with all things...she is very good at working it out...and eventually she meditated as a stone to this unusual MP3 which claimed to unlock past lives.

    Then, one day after many...something happened.

    A vision of two beautiful brown eyed children in a garden chasing each other...a vision of standing at the banks of a great brown river as the extremely hot sun blazed into the horizon. A tall temple rose over her head.

    A sea of humanity at her dirty feet, carrying a small box in a procession...the smell and heat...overwhelming. She climbed up onto a post to avoid this procession which extending as far as she could see.

    The next morning she began to write, page after page became chapter and volume. The story, at first she did not claim as her own life...thinking it some creative bit just needing to work itself out.

    Right up until book five, when the girl killed herself and she became so upset it was as if she watched her own self die.

    Words in the book came true, names of people fullfilled...and more than this, a careful look back at the life and mistakes...made the current life of tremendous suffering absolutely and very minutely understandable.

    But, this whole flood of Truth derailed that once very happy child and turned her very sad. Days pass alone with not even a word to herself...only more prayer.

    The truth derails, makes us very regretfull for our mistakes. From this side of perspective, we can be very harsh upon ourselves for things we can not control from this side. Work halts as the girl becomes a jumbled mess of saddness and grief, wishing that she were dead.

    Charles, I would not recomend this opening of the box, You...yourself in all your true wisdom decided to lock, for your own good, prior to this birth.

    Trust me, the You who locked this box of past memories Loves You so very much....that He knew it would not serve you to dwell upon such things.

    And the Truth of it is, every story...every tale...is yours. When you begin to unlock that very frightening Truth it will unravel everything you once wound up in a ball and called "present reality".

    With all of that said...despite the saddness...that girl would never go back to living blindly. Not that she even had a choice.

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