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Thread: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

  1. #11
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    I don't mean that part. I mean when they first enter the forest they create and ashrama and Rama kills a deer to sacrifice to the heavens.

    I wonder why?

    please quote the relevant sloka and from which Ramayan, i have not read in Valmiki Ramayan such an incidence, i refuse to believe Lord Ram coming from lineage of Raghuvansa King Sibi who gave his own flesh to save the dove would carry such an act.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #12

    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Namaste

    WHY GO VEG [voluntarily of course, taking care of one's health, age, at one's own pace] ? And also, without condemning others who are not ready.

    Everyone knows, but it is worth iterating.

    1. TO BOYCOTT FACTORY FARMING OF ANIMALS.
    It backfires on humans - kariye so bhariye , karma , as you sow so you reap : Welcome to GLOBAL WARMING.

    How ? To feed the zillion artificially grown animals, you grow zillion crops - fodder (while there are hungry humans and children - a fraction of that crop could go to them instead.) Then the human is at the third level, producer--> consumer-->consumer. The goal is producer --> consumer. All the extra production and consumption is being most responsible for glaciers to melt.

    ***Factory farming of animals is known (by research) to cause a much larger ecological footprint than cars.***

    jIv jAgo.

    ELSE

    Hunt your own food, then you are just one in the eco-cycle. Do not however, misuse God's gift - intellect, to imprison and slaughter animals by the zillion. This is how man turns more dangerous than the innocent tiger.

    End of story.



    --------------

    As for patram pushpam falam toyam - it is talking about Love for the divine. I agree about flowers - whatever agrees with your conscience - leave them on the trees then.

    Offering your food to Him is a personal choice, absolutely. The catch ? You can only offer the best , shuddha sattva. Cannot get yourself to offer junk food to KRushNa can you ? So you eat what you offer - the best.

    Not only this, prasAd which has touched the Lord's lips is free of all hinsa to the plants and organisms that died for agriculture, and later while sweeping, grinding, cooking. This refers to yadnya and gratitude to the devtAs - BG Chap 3 .
    If one argues about plants, they have to argue about all those organisms. The idea is to minimize hinsa. Go-hatyA Vs. picking fruit is a skewed comparison.


    This can be done at the

    a) karma yog level (Arjun, everything you eat, do, offer as sacrifice, do it as an offering to me. )

    OR
    b) shuddha-bhakti level - Like straight from Yashoda's kitchen where MaiyA and group make pakwans for her darling baby, in whose kitchen Radha makes sweet kheer, Lalita cooks savories, and from Radha's kitchen where sakhis make nectarean drinks.

    Salilam madhuram kamalam madhuram MadhurAdhipater akhilam madhuram ~

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #13
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    I'm a veggie myself. And in my family if I ever brought home meat to our house, rest assured the elders will skin and then roast me and be real non-veg with their punishment towards me. In my tradition, its purely disgusting to eat meat. It's seen as obnoxious and vomit inducing.
    making such statement to make you feel authority on the subject do not wash with me, either you honour your tradition or you rebel against it your choice.

    Some of the verses you quote says do not eat creatures (which include plants and that means vegetables). And others do not say "do not eat the flesh of animals, only eat plants".
    And your point is do not eat, is that what you deduct from the verses?

    It says "protect all animals", protecting animals does not exclude you from eating them for food. Just like protecting my wife does not mean I can't have sex with her - (of all means of violence and abuse towards women it is sexual one that is the worst aka rape).
    what a perverted piece of logic, you would give someone a protection yet happily kill them to eat.
    every consenting wife should now cry rape, you really make a great point, i don't know weather to laugh or cry.

    I don't believe that by eating meat as food one cannot realize God or is comitting sin.
    you are welcome to your belief, weather anyone remaining in Ignorance (Tamas) can realize god is debatable, Bhagvat Gita categorizes meat as Tamas.

    What matters is how the animal was prepared as food and what sort or parts on an animal you eat.
    perhaps you can tell us how and the source of your information from shastra.

    I don't need to overact and start making non-vegetarians feel guilty.
    If we are talking Dharma and it makes you feel guilty so be it.

    The people who do this were once non-vegetarian themselves. They either do this because they have some twisted morality crusade to act or because they are upset they cannot taste flesh.
    don't be silly you are insulting all those Dharma Gurus from Sankracharya to Ramdevji who stress the important off vegetarian diet, i have yet to come across one Guru that has enjoyed me to partake in eating meat.
    your smilies if it is any indication shows how serious you are.

    Brahmins will actually tell you that meat is a luxury and it infact tastes good.
    Now you are getting annoying, provide some reference or desist from making statement that no one can verify.

    They just realized that abstaining from meat eating and consciously choosing vegetarian based diet makes the mind sharper, the body lighter, increases physical beauty and sexual performance as well as reduces dullness, fatigue and lots of other health issues.
    again you are insulting the serious nature of Brahmin, what their goals are, it just shows what your respect for Brahmin is.

    The only difference is that we vegetarian Hindus are pro-vegetarianism and don't condone publicizing / propagating non-vegetarianism. Meat eating is not strictly prohibited and its nothing to get upset about, you just do it on your own if you want to and don't talk too much about it.
    You speak for your self, i do not go out and shout from the roof top to condemn those meat eaters but when we discuss this on a Hindu forum i shell present it as best i can. Dharma stands on four charan(legs) Ahimsa is one off that if this point is missed we will never understand why we choose to be Vegetarian.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #14
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    I don't mean that part. I mean when they first enter the forest they create and ashrama and Rama kills a deer to sacrifice to the heavens.

    I wonder why?
    Here is another verse from the Valmiki Ramayana where Kabandha tells Rama to eat birds:

    न उद्विजन्ते नरान् दृष्ट्वा वधस्य अकोविदाः शुभाः॥ ३-७३-१३
    घृत पिण्ड उपमान् स्थूलान् तान् द्विजान् भक्षयिष्यथः।

    na udvijante narān dṛṣṭvā vadhasya akovidāḥ śubhāḥ || 3-73-13
    ghṛta piṇḍa upamān sthūlān tān dvijān bhakṣayiṣyathaḥ |

    13b, 14a. vadhasya= of killing - about hunting; a+ kovidaaH= not, experts - artless to avoid hunting; shubhaaH= best - birds; naraan dR^iSTvaa= people, on seeing; na udvijante= un, flustered; ghR^ita piNDa upamaan = ghee, gobs, in simile; sthuulaan taan dvijaan= burly, them, birds; bhakSayiSyathaH= you may savour.

    "Thereabout birds will be unflustered on seeing humans, because they are artless to avoid hunting, because none kills them, and you may savour them because those birds will be best and burley, similar to ghee-gobs...
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 26 March 2011 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    I do not know which verse you are talking about and which Ramayana. There are hundreds of Ramayanas, the most authorative is the Valmiki Ramayana. Here is a verse from the Valmiki Ramayana where Kabandha tells Rama to eat birds:

    न उद्विजन्ते नरान् दृष्ट्वा वधस्य अकोविदाः शुभाः॥ ३-७३-१३
    घृत पिण्ड उपमान् स्थूलान् तान् द्विजान् भक्षयिष्यथः।

    na udvijante narān dṛṣṭvā vadhasya akovidāḥ śubhāḥ || 3-73-13
    ghṛta piṇḍa upamān sthūlān tān dvijān bhakṣayiṣyathaḥ |

    13b, 14a. vadhasya= of killing - about hunting; a+ kovidaaH= not, experts - artless to avoid hunting; shubhaaH= best - birds; naraan dR^iSTvaa= people, on seeing; na udvijante= un, flustered; ghR^ita piNDa upamaan = ghee, gobs, in simile; sthuulaan taan dvijaan= burly, them, birds; bhakSayiSyathaH= you may savour.

    "Thereabout birds will be unflustered on seeing humans, because they are artless to avoid hunting, because none kills them, and you may savour them because those birds will be best and burley, similar to ghee-gobs...
    This one is very interesting, first let me stress having reached this place Ram is not known to have hunted the birds and eaten them.

    i say interesting why? birds here are not hunted because no human kills them, do we seriously think maryada Purshotam would eat them.

    i do not expect or get surprised at Raksas suggesting food other then what he would eat. i got that here in the west all the time when i first came here.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #16

    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Bhagvat Gita categorizes meat as Tamas.
    Wait, wait. Where does it say that?



    Om Namo Narayana

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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Yes, I see how this verse is inconclusive, if that was the only evidence in the Ramayana of Valmiki. But there are other verses as well in the Ramayana. Condemning meat eaters to yakshas and rakshasas is thus insulting to Sri Rama who was also a meat eater. I will quote these verses only for better understanding of the shastras, not because I promote meat eating. I am a vegetarian and will remain one, even after reading these verses.

    तौ तत्र हत्वा चतुरः महा मृगान्।
    वराहम् ऋश्यम् पृषतम् महा रुरुम्।
    आदाय मेध्यम् त्वरितम् बुभुक्षितौ।
    वासाय काले ययतुर् वनः पतिम्॥ २-५२-१०२

    tau tatra hatvā caturaḥ mahā mṛgān |
    varāham ṛśyam pṛṣatam mahā rurum |
    ādāya medhyam tvaritam bubhukṣitau|
    vāsāya kāle yayatur vanaḥ patim || 2-52-102

    102. hatvaa= having killed; tatra= there; chaturaH= four; mR^igaan= deer (namely); varaaham= Varaaha; R^ishyam= Risya; pR^ishhatam= PR^isata; mahaaruru= (and) Mahaaruru; (the four principal species of deer); aadayaa= and taking; tvaritam= quickly; medhyam= the portions that were pure; tou= Rama and Lakshmana; bubhukshhitou= being hungry as they were; yayatuH= reached; vanaspatim= a tree; vaasayaa= to take rest; kaale= in the evening.
    Having hunted there four deer, namely Varaaha, Rishya, Prisata; and Mahaaruru (the four principal species of deer) and taking quickly the portions that were pure, being hungry as they were, Rama and Lakshmana reached a tree to take rest in the evening.

    क्रोशमात्रम् ततो गत्वा भ्रातरौ रामलक्श्मनौ॥ २-५५-३३
    बहून्मेध्यान् मृगान् हत्वा चेरतुर्यमुनावने।

    krośamātram tato gatvā bhrātarau rāmalakśmanau || 2-55-33
    bahūnmedhyān mṛgān hatvā ceraturyamunāvane |

    33. tataH= thereafter; gatvaa= having travelled; kroshamaatram= only a couple of miles; bhraatarau= the two brothers; raamalakshhmaNau= Rama and Lakshmana; hatvaa= killed; bahuun= many; medhyaan= consecrated; mR^igaan= deer; cheratuH= and ate; yamunaavane= in the river-forest of Yamuna.
    Thereafter having travelled only a couple of miles the two brothers Rama and Lakshmana killed many consecrated deer and ate in the river-forest of Yamuna.


    इणेयम् श्रपयस्वैतच्च्चालाम् यक्श्यमहे वयम्।
    त्वरसौम्य मुहूर्तोऽयम् ध्रुवश्च दिवसोऽप्ययम्॥ २-५६-२५
    iṇeyam śrapayasvaitacccālām yakśyamahe vayam |
    tvarasaumya muhūrto'yam dhruvaśca divaso'pyayam || 2-56-25


    25. saumya= Oh, great brother!; shrapayasva= boil; etat= this; aiNeyam= antelope’s meat; vayam= we; yakshyaamahe= shall worship; shaalaam= the leaf-hut; ayam= this; divasaH= day; ayam= (and) this; muhuurtaH api= instant also; dhruvaH= are of a distinctive character; tvara= be quick.
    “Oh, gentle brother! Boil this antelope’s meat. We shall worship the leaf-hut. This day and this instant also are of a distinctive character. Be quick.”

    स लक्ष्मणः कृष्ण मृगम् हत्वा मेध्यम् पतापवान्।
    अथ चिक्षेप सौमित्रिः समिद्धे जात वेदसि॥ २-५६-२६
    sa lakṣmaṇaḥ kṛṣṇa mṛgam hatvā medhyam patāpavān |
    atha cikṣepa saumitriḥ samiddhe jāta vedasi || 2-56-26

    atha= then; saH lakshmaNaH= that Lakshmana; prataapavaan= the strong man; saumitriH= and son of Sumitra; hatvaa= killing; medhyam= the holy; kR^iSNa mR^igam= black antelope; chikSepa= tossed; jaata vedasi= in a fire; samiddhe= ignited.
    Then, Lakshmana the strong man and son of Sumitra, killing a holy back antelope, tossed it in an ignited fire.

    तम् तु पक्वम् समाज्ञाय निष्टप्तम् चिन्न शोणितम्।
    लक्ष्मणः पुरुष व्याघ्रम् अथ राघवम् अब्रवीत्॥ २-५६-२७
    tam tu pakvam samājñāya niṣṭaptam cinna śoṇitam |
    lakṣmaṇaḥ puruṣa vyāghram atha rāghavam abravīt || 2-56-27

    27. parijJNaaya= feeling certain; pakvam= it is cooked; niSTaptam= and heated thoroughly; chinna shoNitam= with no blood remaining; lakshmaNaH= Lakshmana; atha= thereafter; abraviit= spoke; raaghavam= to Rama; puruSa vyaaghram= the lion among men (as follows).
    Feeling certain that it is cooked and heated thoroughly with no blood remaining, Lakshmana spoke to Rama the lion among man as follows:

    अयम् कृष्णः समाप्त अन्गः शृतः कृष्ण मृगो यथा।
    देवता देव सम्काश यजस्व कुशलो हि असि॥ २-५६-२८
    ayam kṛṣṇaḥ samāpta angaḥ śṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa mṛgo yathā |
    devatā deva samkāśa yajasva kuśalo hi asi || 2-56-28

    28. ayam= this; kR^iSNaH mR^igo= black antelope; samaapta angaH= with its complete limbs; shR^itaH= has been cooked; sarvaH= completely; mayaa= by me; deva damkaasha= Oh Rama, remsembling god!; yajasva= worship; devataaH= the deities; asi ahi= you are indeed; kushalaH= skilled (in such act)
    “This black antelope, with its complete limbs, has been cooked completely by me. Oh, Rama resembling God! Worship the concerned deity, as you are skilled in that act.”

    तां तथा दर्शयित्वा तु मैथिलीं गिरिनिम्नगाम्।
    निषसाद गिरिप्रस्थे सीतां मांसेन चन्दयन्॥ २-९६-१
    tāṁ tathā darśayitvā tu maithilīṁ girinimnagām |
    niṣasāda giriprasthe sītāṁ māṁsena candayan || 2-96-1

    1. tathaa= thus; darshayitvaa= having shown; girinimnagaam= the mountaneous river Mandakini; taam siitaam= to that Seetha; maithiliim= the daughter of the king of Mithila; niSasaada= sat; giriprashthe= on the hill side; chhandayan= in order to gratify her appetite; maamsena= with flesh.
    Having shown Mandakini River in that manner to Seetha, the daughter of Mithila, Rama set on the hill-side in order to gratify her appetite with a piece of flesh.

    इदं मेध्यमिदं स्वादु निष्टप्तमिदमग्निना।
    एवमास्ते स धर्मात्मा सीतया सह राघवः॥ २-९६-२
    idaṁ medhyamidaṁ svādu niṣṭaptamidamagninā |
    evamāste sa dharmātmā sītayā saha rāghavaḥ || 2-96-2

    2. saH raaghavaH= that Rama; dharmaatmaa= of righteousness; aaste= stayed; siitayaa sha= with Seetha; evam= thus speaking; idam= this meat; madhyam= is fresh; idam= this; niSTaptam= was roasted; agninaa= in the fire.
    Rama, whose mind was devoted to righteousness stayed there with Seetha, saying; "This meat is fresh, this is savoury and roasted in the fire."

    तत्र रामम् भयम् तीव्रम् आविवेश विषादजम्।
    राक्षसम् मृग रूपम् तम् हत्वा श्रुत्वा च तत् स्वनम्॥ ३-४४-२६
    tatra rāmam bhayam tīvram āviveśa viṣādajam |
    rākṣasam mṛga rūpam tam hatvā śrutvā ca tat svanam || 3-44-26

    26. mR^iga ruupam tam raakSasam hatvaa= in deer's, form, that, demon, on killing; tat svanam shrutvaa ca= his, yelling [of demon,] on hearing, also; tatra= in that matter; raamam= to Rama; viSaada jam tiivram bhayam = by gloom, caused, frantic, fear; aavivesha= ensorcelled.
    On killing that demon in the form of Golden Deer, and also on hearing his yelling, Rama is ensorcelled with a frantic fear caused by his own gloom. [3-44-26]

    निहत्य पृषतम् च अन्यम् मांसम् आदाय राघवः।
    त्वरमाणो जनस्थानम् ससार अभिमुखः तदा॥ ३-४४-२७
    nihatya pṛṣatam ca anyam māṁsam ādāya rāghavaḥ |
    tvaramāṇo janasthānam sasāra abhimukhaḥ tadā || 3-44-27


    27. tadaa= then; raaghavaH= Raghava; anyam= another one; pR^iSatam nihatya ca= spotted deer, on killing, also; maamsam aadaaya= its flesh, on taking; tvaramaaNaH= hurrying himself; janasthaanam abhimukhaH sasaara= to Janasthaana, towards, he drifted, proceeded.
    Raghava then on killing another spotted deer and on taking its flesh, he hurried himself towards Janasthaana. [3-44-27]

    समाश्वस मुहूर्तम् तु शक्यम् वस्तुम् इह त्वया॥ ३-४७-२२
    आगमिष्यति मे भर्ता वन्यम् आदाय पुष्कलम्।
    रुरून् गोधान् वराहान् च हत्वा आदाय अमिषान् बहु॥ ३-४७-२३
    samāśvasa muhūrtam tu śakyam vastum iha tvayā || 3-47-22
    āgamiṣyati me bhartā vanyam ādāya puṣkalam |
    rurūn godhān varāhān ca hatvā ādāya amiṣān bahu || 3-47-23

    (Sita talking to Ravana before she got kidnapped) "Be comfortable for a moment, here it is possible for you to make a sojourn, and soon my husband will be coming on taking plentiful forest produce, and on killing stags, mongooses, wild boars he fetches meat, aplenty. [3-47-22b, 23]

    रामो अथ सह सौमित्रिः वनम् यात्वा स वीर्यवान्।
    स्थूलान् हत्वा महा रोहीन् अनु तस्तार तम् द्विजम्॥ ३-६८-३२
    rāmo atha saha saumitriḥ vanam yātvā sa vīryavān |
    sthūlān hatvā mahā rohīn anu tastāra tam dvijam || 3-68-32

    32. atha= then; viiryavaan raamaH= resolute one, Rama; saha saumitriH= with, Soumitri; vanam yaatvaa= to forest, on going; sthuulaan mahaa rohiin hatvaa= robust-bodied, big, Rohi [or, Kesari animals,] on killing - hunted; tam dvijam= for him, the bird; saH= he; anutastaara= spread sacred grass - to place offerings.

    Then that resolute Rama on going into forest along with Soumitri hunted a robust-bodied, big Rohi animal, or, Kesari animal, and then he spread sacred grass on ground to place that offering to the deceased soul of that bird. [3-68-32]

    रोहि मांसानि च उद्धृत्य पेशी कृत्वा महायशाः।
    शकुनाय ददौ रामो रम्ये हरित शाद्वले॥ ३-६८-३३
    rohi māṁsāni ca uddhṛtya peśī kṛtvā mahāyaśāḥ |
    śakunāya dadau rāmo ramye harita śādvale || 3-68-33

    33. mahaayashaaH= highly renowned one - for his observance of religious ceremonies; raamaH= Rama; rohi maamsaani= Rohi animal's, meat; uddhR^itya= pulling out; peshii kR^itvaa= to gobbets, on lumping it; ramye harita shaadvale= on pleasant, greenish, on pastures; shakunaaya dadau= for the bird [Jataayu,] gave [as offering.]
    On drawing up the flesh of that Rohi animal and lumping it to gobbets, that highly observant Rama placed those gobbets on pleasant greenish pasturelands as obsequial offerings in respect of that bird Jataayu. [3-68-33]

    न उद्विजन्ते नरान् दृष्ट्वा वधस्य अकोविदाः शुभाः॥ ३-७३-१३
    घृत पिण्ड उपमान् स्थूलान् तान् द्विजान् भक्षयिष्यथः।
    na udvijante narān dṛṣṭvā vadhasya akovidāḥ śubhāḥ || 3-73-13
    ghṛta piṇḍa upamān sthūlān tān dvijān bhakṣayiṣyathaḥ |

    13b, 14a. vadhasya= of killing - about hunting; a+ kovidaaH= not, experts - artless to avoid hunting; shubhaaH= best - birds; naraan dR^iSTvaa= people, on seeing; na udvijante= un, flustered; ghR^ita piNDa upamaan = ghee, gobs, in simile; sthuulaan taan dvijaan= burly, them, birds; bhakSayiSyathaH= you may savour.

    "Thereabout birds will be unflustered on seeing humans, because they are artless to avoid hunting, because none kills them, and you may savour them because those birds will be best and burley, similar to ghee-gobs... [3-73-13b, 14a]

    रोहितान् वक्र तुण्डान् च नल मीनान् च राघव॥ ३-७३-१४
    पंपायाम् इषुभिः मत्स्यान् तत्र राम वरान् हतान्।
    निस्त्वक्पक्षानयसतप्तानकृशान्नैककण्टकान् - यद्वा -
    निः त्वक् पक्षान् अयस तप्तान् अकृशान् न अनेक कण्टकान्॥ ३-७३-१५
    तव भक्त्या समायुक्तो लक्ष्मणः संप्रदास्यति।
    भृशम् तान् खादतो मत्स्यान् पंपायाः पुष्प संचये॥ ३-७३-१६
    rohitān vakra tuṇḍān ca nala mīnān ca rāghava || 3-73-14
    paṁpāyām iṣubhiḥ matsyān tatra rāma varān hatān |
    nistvakpakṣānayasataptānakṛśānnaikakaṇṭakān - yadvā -
    niḥ tvak pakṣān ayasa taptān akṛśān na aneka kaṇṭakān || 3-73-15
    tava bhaktyā samāyukto lakṣmaṇaḥ saṁpradāsyati |
    bhṛśam tān khādato matsyān paṁpāyāḥ puṣpa saṁcaye || 3-73-16


    14b, 15, 16a. raaghava= oh, Raghava; raama= oh, Rama; tatra pampaayaam= therein, in Pampa Lake; iSubhiH hataan= with arrow, on skewering; varaan= best ones; niH tvak pakSaan= without, skin [scales,] wings [fins, descaling and de- finning]; ayasa taptaan= with iron rod, on broiling; a+ kR^ishaan ca= not, scraggy, also; na aneka kaNTakaan= not, many, with thorns [with fish-bones]; matsyaan = fishes; rohitaan= red-carps [cyprinus carpio]; vakra tuNDaan= blunt, snouted [small eatable porpoises]; nala miinaan ca= a sort of sprat, also; lakSmaNaH= Lakshmana; bhaktyaa samaayuktaH = reverence, along with - reverentially; tava= to you; sampradaasyati = will offer.

    "Oh, Rama in that Pampa Lake there are best fishes, red-carps, and blunt-snouted small porpoises, and a sort of sprats, which are neither scraggy, nor with many fish-bones. Lakshmana will reverentially offer them to you on skewering them with arrow, and on broiling them on iron rod of arrow after descaling and de-finning them. [3-73-14b, 15, 16a]

    पद्म गन्धि शिवम् वारि सुख शीतम् अनामयम्।
    उद्धृत्य स तदा अक्लिष्टम् रूप्य स्फटिक सन्निभम्॥ ३-७३-१७
    अथ पुष्कर पर्णेन लक्ष्मणः पाययिष्यति।
    padma gandhi śivam vāri sukha śītam anāmayam |
    uddhṛtya sa tadā akliṣṭam rūpya sphaṭika sannibham || 3-73-17
    atha puṣkara parṇena lakṣmaṇaḥ pāyayiṣyati |


    16b, 18a. bhR^isham= many [stomachful, to satiety]; taan matsyaan= those, fishes; khaadataH= while eating; puSpa sancaye= [one in the] flowers', bunches of; padma gandhi= lotus, scented; shivam= pellucid; sukha shiitam= comfortably, cool; anaamayam= without disease [uncontaminated]; sa tadaa akliSTam= that, that way, unadulterated [pristine water]; ruupya sphaTika sannibham= silver, crystal, in shine; pampaayaaH vaari= Pampa Lake's, water; atha lakSmaNaH= then, Lakshmana; puSkara parNena= with lotus, leaf; uddhR^itya= on lifting up; paayayiSyati= [to you] he offers.

    "While you eat those fishes to satiety, Lakshmana will offer you the water of Pampa Lake, which will be in the bunches of flowers of that lake, and which will be lotus-scented, pellucid, comfortably cool, shiny like silver and crystal, uncontaminated and that way pristine, by lifting it up that water with lotus leaf, making that leaf a stoup-like basin... [3-73-16b, 17, 18a]

    पंच पंच नखा भक्ष्या ब्रह्म क्षत्रेण राघव।
    शल्यकः श्वाविधो गोधा शशः कूर्मः च पंचमः॥ १-१७-३९
    paṁca paṁca nakhā bhakṣyā brahma kṣatreṇa rāghava |
    śalyakaḥ śvāvidho godhā śaśaḥ kūrmaḥ ca paṁcamaḥ || 1-17-39

    39. raaghava= oh, Raghava; brahma kSatreNa= by Brahmans, Kshatriya-s; shalyakaH= a wild-rodent with defensive quills; shvaavidhaH= a kind of boar that kills dogs, wolves etc; godhaa= a lizard with unimaginable grip; shashaH= hare; pancamaH kuurmaH ca= fifthly, tortoise, also; panca= five [kinds of]; panca nakhaa= five nailed animals; bhakSyaa= are edible.

    "Raghava, five kinds of five-nailed animals, viz., a kind of wild rodent, a kind of wild-boar, a kind of lizard, a hare and fifthly the turtle are edible for Brahmans and Kshatriya-s. [4-17-39]

  8. #18
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    GaneshPrasad it appears that you are intellectually challenged. If I may ask how old are you? I also sense a lack of maturity. Surely you cannot be more than 30.
    I am intellectually bereft but i fail to see what my age got to do with anything, you could not be so wrong in assuming my age.

    Wait, wait. Where does it say that?
    well not quite directly but is infered here it is

    yata-yamam gata-rasam
    puti paryusitam ca yat
    ucchistam api camedhyam
    bhojanam tamasa-priyam

    yata-yamam--food cooked three hours before being eaten; gata-rasam--tasteless; puti--bad smelling; paryusitam--decomposed; ca--also; yat--that which; ucchistam--remnants of food eaten by others; api--also; ca--and; amedhyam--untouchable; bhojanam--eating; tamasa--in the mode of darkness; priyam--dear.
    Food cooked more than three hours before being eaten, which is tasteless, stale, putrid, decomposed and unclean, is food liked by people in the mode of ignorance. gita by Prabhupad

    another source
    The foods liked by Taamasika persons are half-cooked, tasteless, rotten, stale, refuses, and impure (such as meat and alcohol). (17.10)

    Jai shree Krishna
    Last edited by Ganeshprasad; 26 March 2011 at 06:15 PM.
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  9. #19
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Yes, I see how this verse is inconclusive, if that was the only evidence in the Ramayana of Valmiki. But there are other verses as well in the Ramayana. Condemning meat eaters to yakshas and rakshasas is thus insulting to Sri Rama who was also a meat eater. I will quote these verses only for better understanding of the shastras, not because I promote meat eating. I am a vegetarian and will remain one, even after reading these verses.
    I must say you have stumped me here, i have read Valmiki Ramayan in Gujarati i don't remember reading those verses.

    I am more familiar with Tulsidas Manas having read many times.
    for the moment i will desist from commenting on this thread, my faith has been stirred as never before, i will have to go back and contemplate and seek answers, henceforth i will observe silence on the subject.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  10. #20
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    Re: Meat is Tamsik, not conducive to Physical or spiritual growth

    I apologise for shaking your faith, I remember being stirred reading something similar when I was 16 years old. These verses for me serve to remove my superiority complex as a vegetarian, not my resolve to remain vegetarian or my devotion towards bhagavan Shri Rama.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 26 March 2011 at 06:37 PM.

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